Mullin - Anderson Thread ***READ AT OWN RISK

I guess it’s possible. Is that all that mattered to the Mullin faithful? Attendance and donors?

No. Ncaa tournament appearances mattered to St. John fans (Mullin faithful).

Who are the 2/3 NBA players? Ponds was there for what 10 days but ill give you that he will probably bounce from time to time.....Who are the other two?

Dave is giving Chris mullin credit for Tariq Owens. Simon is in the G league.

we get ZERO credit for Tariq Owens he transferred

we get ZERO credit for Tariq Owens he transferred

And blossomed into a much better player at Texas Tech under great coaching vs zero coaching here.

we get ZERO credit for Tariq Owens he transferred

He graduated.

He graduated.

And mussini and fredenburg travelled thousands of miles to start college then go pro.

He Transferred....Look up players from St. John's playing or to play in NBA he is not associated with us .....dont give me that bs......Lol Foad you would fall that low

He Transferred....Look up players from St. John's playing or to play in NBA he is not associated with us .....dont give me that bs......Lol Foad you would fall that low

He attended St John's for three years, graduated, and then used his remaining year of eligibility as a graduate transfer at Texas Tech. Note the word graduate in the phrase "graduate transfer."

Sampson and Harkless.

The biggest flaw to Mullin coaching was that he was not fully vested at being the SJUBB coach. Not saying he was lazy, I am saying he did not like many of the aspects of being a college coach.

Even if he hired the perfect staff, that would not be enough. The biggest issues were:

-Splitting time between NY and California

-He ran the program like a pro team, instead of treating them like college students. His presence needed to be around more. Even if the staff does everything he wanted, it is still not the same as when the leader of the organization is there. People slack off, it’s the nature of any organization.

-Self awareness, between wearing shorts in Hawaii, sitting on the scores table, trying both his shoes on national television, cursing at refs.

 If he won more this would all be considered Quirky or part of Mullin’s personality. Instead these became critiques of how engaged he is with his program.

-The disjointedness of his position. The President sent him up to fail by having Mullin directly report to him. That undermined the first AD, and there was going to be major conflict down the road between Mullin and Cragg.

The President chose the AD over the coach.

Mullin staying longer would have kept the structure out of sync, because he wasn’t Cragg’s pick and it was obvious Cragg wasn’t impressed by him.

Right now the organization is in sync the AD picked Anderson and the President supported that decision. Time will tell if Anderson was the right pick to finally rebuild SJU in the proper way.

Sampson and Harkless.

Wrong. Harkless was a Lavin player.

I don't know how some people of here can bash Lavin and praise Mullin. Lavin was way better and more successful. How can you say oh Mullin Left Anderson Mustapah and LJ two preseason all Big east 2nd team players and then turn around and say Lavin left Mullin with the worst roster in school history when Jordan and Obekpa were actually left here. It has to go both ways here on both sides.

Dave, if you had to choose who would you rather have as the coach of your program Lavin or Mullin? I feel like you are unbiased and honest so I will ask you that.

Lavin was a slightly better, albeit sketchier, coach.

There really isn’t a ton of difference between our last three coaches in terms of overall effectiveness. When you consider recruiting, philosophy, and in-game coaching it is Anderson-Lavin-Mullin in that order, but we’re talking about the difference in making the tournament and maybe winning a game there. It’s not like we are arguing over a potential Elite Eight. We fired the two guys responsible for that years ago.

The problem, outside of pure delusion, seems to be when coaches raise expectations. Raising expectations here is the first step towards a pink slip.

And blossomed into a much better player at Texas Tech under great coaching vs zero coaching here.

Would you say he “blossomed into a much better player” at St. John’s vs what he was at Tennessee? He shot 35.3% and averaged far less pts and rebounds per minute with more turnovers per minute there. Of course you wouldn’t say that because it doesn’t fit your narrative, you ridiculous troll.

Owens last season here:

8.4 pts, 5.9 rebs, 2.8 blks, .4 asts

Owens at Texas Tech as a senior with Final Four talent around him:

8.7 pts, 5.8 rbs, 2.4 blks, .7 asts

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tariq-owens-1.html

It would be hard to find someone who played so consistently after switching schools...let alone going from a team that didn’t even make the NIT to a team that made the NCAA tournament championship game.

Lavin was a slightly better, albeit sketchier, coach.

There really isn’t a ton of difference between our last three coaches in terms of overall effectiveness. When you consider recruiting, philosophy, and in-game coaching it is Anderson-Lavin-Mullin in that order, but we’re talking about the difference in making the tournament and maybe winning a game there. It’s not like we are arguing over a potential Elite Eight. We fired the two guys responsible for that years ago.

The problem, outside of pure delusion, seems to be when coaches raise expectations. Raising expectations here is the first step towards a pink slip.

I was done with this topic. Nudinator 59 described the situation nicely. We should have left it there. This is why this topic will never die.
Like Lavin or not. He took a bunch of guys who won NOTHING into the top 20. That team beat a bunch of great teams including giving the national champions a beat down.
He was left nothing also. And he isn’t a great coach, but he hired a real staff, and recruited a great class. Those guys lost plenty that first year. But they didn’t embarrass us. Dunlap established a culture. That team learned to play defense.
Lavin left not doing as well as we would have liked. But 20 games or so over .500 is not slightly better then 20-59 (with 40 knockouts- knockouts are worse then losses). One more time,  giving up near a 100 points while barley scoring 60 is very bad. That should never happen.
Lavin deserves respect just because he did a good job. Maybe he deserved to be fired. But what happened was the biggest mistake in program history. Probably big east history. I have never seen a school give itself the death penalty before.
Hopefully our new coach is better. He doesn’t need a pass. But He should get some understanding.
If we got someone to mediate our little fight. I think it would be obvious which side was delusional.

Would you say he “blossomed into a much better player” at St. John’s vs what he was at Tennessee? He shot 35.3% and averaged far less pts and rebounds per minute with more turnovers per minute there. Of course you wouldn’t say that because it doesn’t fit your narrative, you ridiculous troll.

Owens last season here:

8.4 pts, 5.9 rebs, 2.8 blks, .4 asts

Owens at Texas Tech as a senior with Final Four talent around him:

8.7 pts, 5.8 rbs, 2.4 blks, .7 asts

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tariq-owens-1.html

It would be hard to find someone who played so consistently after switching schools...let alone going from a team that didn’t even make the NIT to a team that made the NCAA tournament championship game.

He went from 8 points at St. John’s and now he signed an NBA contract. Anyone who watched him in the tournament knows he got better. Much better. He was faster and stronger also. Those are not opinions, again he just signed a contract.
If anyone suggested ownes would play in the NBA we would have laughed at him.
Fit your narrative? 20-59 isn’t ok. 20-59 is disgraceful

Would you say he “blossomed into a much better player” at St. John’s vs what he was at Tennessee? He shot 35.3% and averaged far less pts and rebounds per minute with more turnovers per minute there. Of course you wouldn’t say that because it doesn’t fit your narrative, you ridiculous troll.

Owens last season here:

8.4 pts, 5.9 rebs, 2.8 blks, .4 asts

Owens at Texas Tech as a senior with Final Four talent around him:

8.7 pts, 5.8 rbs, 2.4 blks, .7 asts

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/tariq-owens-1.html

It would be hard to find someone who played so consistently after switching schools...let alone going from a team that didn’t even make the NIT to a team that made the NCAA tournament championship game.

Of course what you fail to mention there is that Owens essentially matched his output in those categories while playing 13% fewer minutes over the course of the season. That's not an insignificant number. Owens was drastically better at Texas Tech and it wasn't even close.

His offensive rating went from 103.6 to 125.8. Effective FG% from 53.9% to 63%. Those are HUGE differences.

He went from rebounding 5.6% of shots on offense to 10.9%. Nearly double.

His Assist rate was higher, block % was higher and turnover % was lower.

He got to the FT way more and went from a 69% FT shooter to a 78% shooter.

He went from making 54.9% of his two point attempts to 67.6%.

If you think Owens took anything less than a massive leap forward at TTU then you are delusional.

Of course what you fail to mention there is that Owens essentially matched his output in those categories while playing 13% fewer minutes over the course of the season. That's not an insignificant number. Owens was drastically better at Texas Tech and it wasn't even close.

His offensive rating went from 103.6 to 125.8. Effective FG% from 53.9% to 63%. Those are HUGE differences.

He went from rebounding 5.6% of shots on offense to 10.9%. Nearly double.

His Assist rate was higher, block % was higher and turnover % was lower.

He got to the FT way more and went from a 69% FT shooter to a 78% shooter.

He went from making 54.9% of his two point attempts to 67.6%.

If you think Owens took anything less than a massive leap forward at TTU then you are delusional.

I really don’t understand this constant campaign to make Mullins coaching out to be anything more than what his coaching record said it was.

So Mullin developed Owens, ok. That would mean he went 4-14 with two NBA players along with 5 star recruit and eventual DPOY Simon in his starting line up but it’s LoVett’s fault.

Of course what you fail to mention there is that Owens essentially matched his output in those categories while playing 13% fewer minutes over the course of the season. That's not an insignificant number. Owens was drastically better at Texas Tech and it wasn't even close.

His offensive rating went from 103.6 to 125.8. Effective FG% from 53.9% to 63%. Those are HUGE differences.

He went from rebounding 5.6% of shots on offense to 10.9%. Nearly double.

His Assist rate was higher, block % was higher and turnover % was lower.

He got to the FT way more and went from a 69% FT shooter to a 78% shooter.

He went from making 54.9% of his two point attempts to 67.6%.

If you think Owens took anything less than a massive leap forward at TTU then you are delusional.

Now do the breakdown from Tennessee to St. John’s. It is even bigger. Stop playing things one way.

At Tech, he was 20% more experienced and 10% heavier. He was surrounded by Final Four talent, including the #6 overall pick in the draft who is averaging 10,4, and 2 as a rookie. Ponds is in the G-League.

I really don’t understand this constant campaign to make Mullins coaching out to be anything more than what his coaching record said it was.

So Mullin developed Owens, ok. That would mean he went 4-14 with two NBA players along with 5 star recruit and eventual DPOY Simon in his starting line up but it’s LoVett’s fault.

Show me one person besides Carmine that has ever said Mullin was even good you f*cking idiot.

WTF do you and your three buddies have to prove? Mullin was a disastrous hire. His fate was sealed when Ratt A chased Slide away. You don’t learn on the job in the Big East. Can’t you just leave it at that? 

Jesus Christ. We saw awful for six years. It was Norm Roberts. All hope was gone. Just move on you insufferable prick.

Show me one person besides Carmine that has ever said Mullin was even good you f*cking idiot.

WTF do you and your three buddies have to prove? Mullin was a disastrous hire. His fate was sealed when Ratt A chased Slide away. You don’t learn on the job in the Big East. Can’t you just leave it at that? 

Jesus Christ. We saw awful for six years. It was Norm Roberts. All hope was gone. Just move on you insufferable prick.

Can you please call me names also. It makes me feel left out