POINT GUARD

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Poison

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Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #120 on: December 26, 2011, 02:13:52 PM »
He's not in the same stratosphere? I beg to differ. JB played 4 years. Lead us to wins over top ranked programs for 4 years. He helped lead us to the elite 8. Much like Barkley did as well. Was JB better? Maybe not. But they were similar in some ways. Barkley ran more. JB slowed it more. Results were the elite 8. Same result.

Neither was the best player on those teams.

Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #121 on: December 26, 2011, 03:07:05 PM »
Stith has been given opportunities to start. He's been given so many chances to perform. Cain was a backup. That wasn't a mistake. JB was a great point guard. And not much different than Erick Barkley. Not a fair comparison.

Stith has shown us so little that it's hard to fight for his cause on any level. He needs to play better. That simple.

Jason Buchanan was NOT a great point guard, was NOT in the same stratosphere as Erick Barkley and should NOT have been playing ahead of Cain.

JB was not as good as EB. And DC had a better senior season than any of JB's seasons.

That said..... everytime JB went to the bench and DC came in, we struggled mighty. JB had a bad senior year. But up 'til then he was battle-tested since he was a frosh forced to man the point when Boo got disqualed. And he had hisself a very good junior year and hit some big shots and had a killer 91 NCAA tourney. He was never overly excitin but he didnt turn the ball over either. 
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Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #122 on: December 26, 2011, 03:08:37 PM »
Stith has been given opportunities to start. He's been given so many chances to perform. Cain was a backup. That wasn't a mistake. JB was a great point guard. And not much different than Erick Barkley. Not a fair comparison.

Stith has shown us so little that it's hard to fight for his cause on any level. He needs to play better. That simple.

Jason Buchanan was NOT a great point guard, was NOT in the same stratosphere as Erick Barkley and should NOT have been playing ahead of Cain.
I rememberAl LoBalbo clearly stating Buchanan was a 2 and yet, to the best of my recollection he and Cain never once played together in the same backcourt.  That was when Louie was beginning to lose it.  He was so stuck in his ways he wouldn't even experiment in exhibition games.  Cain would have made JB so much better it was a shame.  At least Lavin takes chances like giving Hardy the ball and letting him take us to the dance.  Norm stupidly made him split time with Paris who belonged on the floor full time.  Coaching really matters.  Now if only Dunlap would back off on that stupid zone........So tired of watching us get outgunned from three it's sickening.

Poison

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Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #123 on: December 26, 2011, 03:17:46 PM »
I loved Cain his senior year, but he turned the ball over constantly until then.
JB brought it up, and he let 4 competent scorers go to work, and they did.

And he held on the to the ball.

Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #124 on: December 26, 2011, 03:53:53 PM »
Cain wasn't ready to start the year we lost to Tulane. Mahoney won the Coach of the year award in 1993. The next year they took it back from him.

Maybe I wasn't clear Mahoney won BE coach of the year his first time out with Cain, a senior, as his PG.  Looks like a few other posters are not exactly JB's biggest fans.

Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #125 on: December 26, 2011, 03:57:19 PM »
I loved Cain his senior year, but he turned the ball over constantly until then.
JB brought it up, and he let 4 competent scorers go to work, and they did.

And he held on the to the ball.

ConstantlyTurned the ball over?  Based on what, stats or your recollection?  And your point about JB giving the ball to 4 competent scorers goes exactly to my point that Cain's senior year, playing with 2 competent scorers had 7.1 apg to JB's 6.6 the year before.

Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #126 on: December 26, 2011, 04:02:59 PM »
I loved Cain his senior year, but he turned the ball over constantly until then.
JB brought it up, and he let 4 competent scorers go to work, and they did.

And he held on the to the ball.

ConstantlyTurned the ball over?  Based on what, stats or your recollection?  And your point about JB giving the ball to 4 competent scorers goes exactly to my point that Cain's senior year, playing with 2 competent scorers had 7.1 apg to JB's 6.6 the year before.

My recollection is that DC turned the ball over quite a bit frosh thru junior, but I dont got no stats since the redmencom got itself redone.

I remember the crowd moanin sometime when DC came in the game to replace JB.

« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 04:05:12 PM by Choz4Life »
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Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #127 on: December 26, 2011, 04:04:37 PM »
Stith has been given opportunities to start. He's been given so many chances to perform. Cain was a backup. That wasn't a mistake. JB was a great point guard. And not much different than Erick Barkley. Not a fair comparison.

Stith has shown us so little that it's hard to fight for his cause on any level. He needs to play better. That simple.

Jason Buchanan was NOT a great point guard, was NOT in the same stratosphere as Erick Barkley and should NOT have been playing ahead of Cain.
I rememberAl LoBalbo clearly stating Buchanan was a 2 and yet, to the best of my recollection he and Cain never once played together in the same backcourt.  That was when Louie was beginning to lose it.  He was so stuck in his ways he wouldn't even experiment in exhibition games.  Cain would have made JB so much better it was a shame.  At least Lavin takes chances like giving Hardy the ball and letting him take us to the dance.  Norm stupidly made him split time with Paris who belonged on the floor full time.  Coaching really matters.  Now if only Dunlap would back off on that stupid zone........So tired of watching us get outgunned from three it's sickening.

Yeah, but JB was the startin 2 in 1990 when Boo manned the point.
Parking only for NYCHA permit holders.

Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #128 on: December 26, 2011, 05:59:02 PM »
I loved Cain his senior year, but he turned the ball over constantly until then.
JB brought it up, and he let 4 competent scorers go to work, and they did.

And he held on the to the ball.

ConstantlyTurned the ball over?  Based on what, stats or your recollection?  And your point about JB giving the ball to 4 competent scorers goes exactly to my point that Cain's senior year, playing with 2 competent scorers had 7.1 apg to JB's 6.6 the year before.

My recollection is that DC turned the ball over quite a bit frosh thru junior, but I dont got no stats since the redmencom got itself redone.

I remember the crowd moanin sometime when DC came in the game to replace JB.
DC demonstrated potential in the years leading up to his senior year but was yanked every time he made a mistake. He was never an offensive juggernaut but was more of a pure point guard than JB and truly made others around him better in his senior year. We had very little in his senior year. Arkansas had to throw everything at DC to stop him.

Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #129 on: December 26, 2011, 06:15:32 PM »
DC demonstrated potential in the years leading up to his senior year

Yeah...the potential to make the fans vomit.  Cain was absolutely Horrible his first three seasons.  No way Lou can be blamed for not playing him more.  A Jackson/Moses situation this was not.  Nobody could have seen the 180 degree turnaround he made in his senior year coming based on the first three.  It would be akin to predicting Cedric's success offensively once he left Queens.

Buchanon was a fine guard who played very well during his tenure here.  He didn't have the best skin, however.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2011, 06:16:32 PM by carmineabbatiello »

Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #130 on: December 27, 2011, 10:45:00 AM »
DC demonstrated potential in the years leading up to his senior year

Yeah...the potential to make the fans vomit.  Cain was absolutely Horrible his first three seasons.  No way Lou can be blamed for not playing him more.  A Jackson/Moses situation this was not.  Nobody could have seen the 180 degree turnaround he made in his senior year coming based on the first three.  It would be akin to predicting Cedric's success offensively once he left Queens.

Buchanon was a fine guard who played very well during his tenure here.  He didn't have the best skin, however.

Certainly didnt see that he would have the kind of senior year that he did have but definitely saw him as having better PG skills than JB as a junior...Better ballhandler and better passer

Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #131 on: December 27, 2011, 11:07:20 AM »
Cain's senior year was as good a season as a SJU point guard has ever had. The three previous years he was a disaster. That is what made his Senior season so remarkable. Anytime he came into the game the crowd would groan. Anyone who remembers anything good about his first 3 seasons is shelling out some big time revisionist history!

Poison

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Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #132 on: December 27, 2011, 04:48:50 PM »
There wasn't a single person who thought Cain should have ran the point during his first 3 seasons. Not anywhere. Not even David Cain himself.

Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #133 on: December 27, 2011, 06:35:08 PM »
Cain's senior year was as good a season as a SJU point guard has ever had. The three previous years he was a disaster. That is what made his Senior season so remarkable. Anytime he came into the game the crowd would groan. Anyone who remembers anything good about his first 3 seasons is shelling out some big time revisionist history!

OK

Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #134 on: December 28, 2011, 01:07:06 PM »
DC demonstrated potential in the years leading up to his senior year

Yeah...the potential to make the fans vomit.  Cain was absolutely Horrible his first three seasons.  No way Lou can be blamed for not playing him more.  A Jackson/Moses situation this was not.  Nobody could have seen the 180 degree turnaround he made in his senior year coming based on the first three.  It would be akin to predicting Cedric's success offensively once he left Queens.

Buchanon was a fine guard who played very well during his tenure here.  He didn't have the best skin, however.

Sorry but NEVER trying Cain and Buchanan in the same backcourt was just plain stupid. To insinuate that Cain underwent some sort of epiphany after junior year is almost as dumb.  Everyone knew Lou felt "if you can't do it with seven...." and that's why he couldn't recruit any more when he left.  Teams like Gtown were signing and playing 10-11 players at the time.  That's when the game changed and Lou didn't.  I believe he would have stayed if he had been flexible enough to smell the coffee.  He's still at every game while the coach stays home.  Ironic.

Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #135 on: December 28, 2011, 01:19:08 PM »
DC demonstrated potential in the years leading up to his senior year

Yeah...the potential to make the fans vomit.  Cain was absolutely Horrible his first three seasons.  No way Lou can be blamed for not playing him more.  A Jackson/Moses situation this was not.  Nobody could have seen the 180 degree turnaround he made in his senior year coming based on the first three.  It would be akin to predicting Cedric's success offensively once he left Queens.

Buchanon was a fine guard who played very well during his tenure here.  He didn't have the best skin, however.

Sorry but NEVER trying Cain and Buchanan in the same backcourt was just plain stupid. To insinuate that Cain underwent some sort of epiphany after junior year is almost as dumb.  Everyone knew Lou felt "if you can't do it with seven...." and that's why he couldn't recruit any more when he left.  Teams like Gtown were signing and playing 10-11 players at the time.  That's when the game changed and Lou didn't.  I believe he would have stayed if he had been flexible enough to smell the coffee.  He's still at every game while the coach stays home.  Ironic.

Both Buchanan and Cain had one good year, JB's jr, Cain's sr.  However in the other year's JB  was just okay.  Cain was a disaster.  My buds and I had season tix back then and would groan with 5K other people every time he got set to check in.  That's what made his sr year even more special, it was totally unexpected.  I don't disagree with your general comments on Louie being resistant to change/modernization in the program but he gave Cain chances and Cain blew them over and over again for three years.

Poison

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Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #136 on: December 28, 2011, 01:20:49 PM »
Chucky Sprolling was our hot hand that landed us in the elite eight that year, only to lose to eventual national champion Duke. Lou should have made changes to JB, Chucky S, Malik S, Billy S and Rob W? I think not.


Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #137 on: December 28, 2011, 01:20:59 PM »
For the last time. David Cain wa great his senior year. Prior to that he was hopeless. Granted Louie had a quick hook with him but he was a disaster. NO ONE saw his senior year coming. Anyone who was around can remember the groans when he came in for JB. In retrospect  Cain's senior season was waaaaaay better than anything Buchanon could have ever produced, but for whatever reason(fresh start-new coach, no other point option) it took until his senior year for DC to blossom.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 01:22:33 PM by we are sju »

Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #138 on: December 28, 2011, 01:23:53 PM »
Actually Norm Roberts should hate David Cain. If not for Cain, Mahoney would probably be considered the worst coach in SJU history. 

ras

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Re: POINT GUARD
« Reply #139 on: December 28, 2011, 07:16:35 PM »
Mahoney was not a good coach, but Jarvis was the worse.