Marquette - Game Thread

Quote from: Marco Baldi on January 11, 2012, 10:06:56 PM

Harkless looked exsausted, hopefully all these guys don't hit that "freshmen wall " at the same time. Duncelap has to get Moe out of the end of games like  this. If he gets hurt playing against Walkons,forget it.

I would stick to coaching 10 year olds if I were you! Coach Dunlap has more coaching knowledge in his stool sample than anyone posting here.
Moe played a "quiet" 29 minutes and did not exhaust himself on defense tonight.....if you actually watched the game.
Finally, stop with the walk-on bull as we know you would prefer SJ to lose by 30 rather than 15. A great CYO, 2nd tier coach should know you do not demoralize your freshmen by taking them out and putting in 6' guards in their place that will get embarrassed by Marquette's second team of talented players.
The Jekyll and Hyde fans here are just too much after a loss!

You didn't read thru the whole thread genius,actually a couple of you didn't. Played great in 1st half,i even posted that Harrison might be all big east. As for Harkless,when he gets tired,he stays at the 3 point line and guys like Crowder go off. Let's see how happy you are when 1 of our studs get hurt with 30 secs left down 20 and a doofy walkon tries to get in the boxscore

Freshmen lost to 24th rank seniors on the seniors homecourt.

Seniors?

Marquette has 2 seniors.

Quote from: Choz4Life on January 11, 2012, 10:49:35 PM

Freshmen lost to 24th rank seniors on the seniors homecourt.

Seniors?

Marquette has 2 seniors.

Who are the two best players by far, Gardner aside. 

Quote from: ris on January 12, 2012, 05:49:45 AM

Quote from: Choz4Life on January 11, 2012, 10:49:35 PM

Freshmen lost to 24th rank seniors on the seniors homecourt.

Seniors?

Marquette has 2 seniors.

Who are the two best players by far, Gardner aside.

If we had Obekpa next to Gift, Gardner wouldn't have gotten a shot off.  Obekpa would have sent his shots into the student section.   It's why we need a guy like that.

We were also missing a crafty passer (Branch) out there.  I thought Phil Greene did a nice job, but he really is more of a combo and would have been great coming in for D'Angelo off the ball when he was in foul trouble.  Branch is a kid that can get the ball to the next level passed the defenders switches into those tricky spots.  We don't have a guy that can do that yet, but for what I've seen of Branch's vision and passing, he is more than capable.

The 2nd half was tough to watch.  Harrison played like a freshman and picked up stupid fouls.  The offense is just not the same without him in there.  Harkless had another off game shooting and once again disappeared.  It is frustrating to watch Moe out there sometimes because he has so much talent and really needs to learn how to take over a game.  Phil Greene is in over his head. He is just not a BE pg at this point in time and it hasn't helped that he can't hit a jump shot to save his life.  Pointer has played well but he doesn't give us much on offense.  Amir needs to learn to move his feet on defense.  He tries to do too much with his length and hands.  You can get away with that in hs but on this level he really needs to work on that.  GG had a strong first half.  He is great in transition but whenever he puts the ball on the floor in the halfcourt I cringe because there is about a 50/50 chance it is going off his foot.  Stith isn't a BE player.  He makes some nice plays and the rest of the time I am yelling at the screen to get him out.  This team has talent and is fun to watch but it is going to be a very long season.  Like others have said I think we need a few more bigs and a shooter off the bench.

Watching the game at work on my phone I was thrilled to see we won the first half. I always thought this team could hang with anyone as long as they played their game and didn't get overwhelmed.

But that seemed to have happened in the second half. I didn't see it but I'm guessing when Harrison fouled out that was about it for us. Which is a shame, especially since this was a winnable game against a  ranked road team.

Anyway we all need to sit back and just be thankful that at least we aren't fans of Pitt.

Quote from: Beach Bum on January 11, 2012, 10:32:04 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on January 11, 2012, 10:06:56 PM

Harkless looked exsausted, hopefully all these guys don't hit that "freshmen wall " at the same time. Duncelap has to get Moe out of the end of games like  this. If he gets hurt playing against Walkons,forget it.

I would stick to coaching 10 year olds if I were you! Coach Dunlap has more coaching knowledge in his stool sample than anyone posting here.
Moe played a "quiet" 29 minutes and did not exhaust himself on defense tonight.....if you actually watched the game.
Finally, stop with the walk-on bull as we know you would prefer SJ to lose by 30 rather than 15. A great CYO, 2nd tier coach should know you do not demoralize your freshmen by taking them out and putting in 6' guards in their place that will get embarrassed by Marquette's second team of talented players.
The Jekyll and Hyde fans here are just too much after a loss!

You didn't read thru the whole thread genius,actually a couple of you didn't. Played great in 1st half,i even posted that Harrison might be all big east. As for Harkless,when he gets tired,he stays at the 3 point line and guys like Crowder go off. Let's see how happy you are when 1 of our studs get hurt with 30 secs left down 20 and a doofy walkon tries to get in the boxscore

We are learning to ignore you but it is hard when you say things like:
Put Jamal White in the game
Empty the bench! LOL! That was the best one! WHAT BENCH??
Take Moe out! Moe was barely breaking a sweat! He disappears at the 3 point line every game!
Finally, calling coach D a dunce......that was the true genius in you but you have a right to your biased opinion as do we fans without split loyalties here.

The problem last night was that the 1st half was not representative of MU style.  Their best players got 2 fouls and missed major minutes in that half and yet MU was down by only 1 at the half.  with "2 Names"(played 28 minutes) and "Chowder" (played 23 minutes) playing in the 2nd half, they were able toignite the fast break and run us off the court.  MU had something to do with our performance.  You could also see the physical difference between seniors and freshman.  2 Names was built like a rock--nothing like skinny freshmen>

We also ran into a night when Gardner had the game of his career.

A critical turning point in this game was at the end of the first half. Harkless and Harrison sat for last 4 minutes and the lead dwindle and momentum swung. I think if St. John's kept their foot on the gas and held a double digit lead than I think MU would have come out a bit more deflated to start 2nd half.

A critical turning point in this game was at the end of the first half. Harkless and Harrison sat for last 4 minutes and the lead dwindle and momentum swung. I think if St. John's kept their foot on the gas and held a double digit lead than I think MU would have come out a bit more deflated to start 2nd half.

 I think you had to sit them, especially with the lead. I'm sure the thinking is to just maintain the lead going into the half and then continue playing with your studs, and continuing playing as well as you were in the first half.

 The critical turning point, for me, was Harrison getting foul number 4. Plus it was a borderline call. The lead went from 1 to down 9 while he sat ( i think).  The he comes back and immediately gets his 5th.  Game over.

Beach bum, try decaf. I have no idea what you're trying to say

One of the positives I took from last night was GG's performance.  While there is clearly room for improvement (e.g., not putting the ball on the floor when he doesn't have to), IMO he really has steadily improved his game.   Next year, I think he's going to be a beast, especially if he gets the help we're hoping to land.

Just a disgusting game to watch in the 2nd half.

- Inexcusable, careless play that led to every turnover. No excuses for such ineptitude
- This team proved today that besides Harrison NO ONE can shoot when we need a bucket. What happened to an explosive offense? Unless we are running and gunning at the rim, we can't score. Harkless did jack shit, why can't he seem to step up when we need him? Besides the Providence game, he has been MIA in crunch time.
- God's Gift had his best overall performance in that first half.
- Harrison picking up 5 fouls with 9 or so minutes left in the 2nd half is ridiculous, I didn't agree with all 5, but he has to be smarter and pick his spots, he's too valuable.
- Where is Amir Garrett's offense? It's one thing to not know certain plays but this guy all he has done when he gets the ball is stutter step with his left foot and stop dribbling. Pointer can't score unless its a dunk or layup, Greene couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, and Stith still has the ugliest jump shot in college basketball. Too many of these trends seem to be leaking over into each game.
- Here come all the comments of growing pains...yea that's fine and dandy I didn't expect a ton out of this squad but it's been SO DAMN UGLY.
- last but not least, Mike Dunlap is a dunce. He's proved over and over that he can't be a head coach, he didn't make any adjustments in the 2nd half. Marquette opened up with at 9-0 run and he did nothing to change the flow or get us some baskets, no set plays, just a horrific coaching display.

Our recruits, INCLUDING HARKLESS, are a tad bit overrated. 

Quote from: Marillac on January 11, 2012, 10:02:09 PM

Quote from: P1NSTR1PEZ on January 11, 2012, 09:37:57 PM

Just a disgusting game to watch in the 2nd half.

- Inexcusable, careless play that led to every turnover. No excuses for such ineptitude
- This team proved today that besides Harrison NO ONE can shoot when we need a bucket. What happened to an explosive offense? Unless we are running and gunning at the rim, we can't score. Harkless did jack shit, why can't he seem to step up when we need him? Besides the Providence game, he has been MIA in crunch time.
- God's Gift had his best overall performance in that first half.
- Harrison picking up 5 fouls with 9 or so minutes left in the 2nd half is ridiculous, I didn't agree with all 5, but he has to be smarter and pick his spots, he's too valuable.
- Where is Amir Garrett's offense? It's one thing to not know certain plays but this guy all he has done when he gets the ball is stutter step with his left foot and stop dribbling. Pointer can't score unless its a dunk or layup, Greene couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, and Stith still has the ugliest jump shot in college basketball. Too many of these trends seem to be leaking over into each game.
- Here come all the comments of growing pains...yea that's fine and dandy I didn't expect a ton out of this squad but it's been SO DAMN UGLY.
- last but not least, Mike Dunlap is a dunce. He's proved over and over that he can't be a head coach, he didn't make any adjustments in the 2nd half. Marquette opened up with at 9-0 run and he did nothing to change the flow or get us some baskets, no set plays, just a horrific coaching display.

You are a good poster, but this post is ri-#$%^ING-diculous.  Dunlap is a dunce?  Harrison should know better as a freshman?  Garrett should feel comfortable two weeks into a new offense and new defense at a completely new level?  Where is the explosive offense?

C'mon dude.

We were beating Marquette at the half at their place with no depth, no size, and a team of freshman.  We lost Harrison and we lost our chance.  The f'at bastard Gardner was having his way with a buch of tooth picks, but next season Gathers would eat his lunch, Harkless will be a solid 230, and that Precious looking b'astard won't be able to wipe his face without worrying about getting that thrown back at him like every shot he put up on the floor.

Here's the problem...   some posters fall off the deep end after every loss like this (Illwill, Pinstripez etc)  but then half of you overreact in the opposite direction defending the team.   Whether we want to admit it or not --- or whether our emotions will let us think rationally immediately after a loss --- the truth is somewhere in between both these sentiments. 

This game isn't "inexcusable", we're a very short handed, all-freshmen team for crying out loud!   And Moe isn't invisible, nor is Dunlap a "dunce"... at least according to his peers across the college basketball landscape. 

But - at the same time, Marrillac, things aren't all sunshine and rainbows in SJU-land.  And I know you didn't say things we're perfect, but your're providing excuses by giving too much credence to the "we'll be better next year" notion.   One way we'll be better next year is if we make corrections from game to game this season ! 

 We needed to come out with our heads on in the second half and we didn't.  D'angelo may have gotten the short end of the stick from the refs, but he's got to be able to change his game once that becomes a problem.  And Dom, Amir, and Phil need to start to learn to pick up the slack when Harrison is out and teams are denying Moe and GG the ball.   Even if you think of tonight in terms of the big picture, this was a teachable moment and the 3 I just mentioned didn't earn a C ... this was a inarguable  F performance by them in the second half. 

Sky's not falling ... and we certainly are short-handed, but there were a lot of correctable mistakes out there tonight.  Simple as that.

I appreciate being on so many posters' minds while they are posting, but I never "fall off the deep end" mainly because i never had high expectations to begin with.  My complaint(s) have been basically about the ineligible players, and the transfers. 

I will say that Phil Greene has been vastly overrated by many posters here.  And I certainbly fell victim to overrating Harkless.  No, I'm not denying that he is a legit player and should develop into a very good big east player, but after the providence game i think i said he'll go down as a top 3 player in SJU history. 

Moe Harkless has  A LOT to improve on...

Quote from: P1NSTR1PEZ on January 11, 2012, 09:37:57 PM

Just a disgusting game to watch in the 2nd half.

- Inexcusable, careless play that led to every turnover. No excuses for such ineptitude
- This team proved today that besides Harrison NO ONE can shoot when we need a bucket. What happened to an explosive offense? Unless we are running and gunning at the rim, we can't score. Harkless did jack shit, why can't he seem to step up when we need him? Besides the Providence game, he has been MIA in crunch time.
- God's Gift had his best overall performance in that first half.
- Harrison picking up 5 fouls with 9 or so minutes left in the 2nd half is ridiculous, I didn't agree with all 5, but he has to be smarter and pick his spots, he's too valuable.
- Where is Amir Garrett's offense? It's one thing to not know certain plays but this guy all he has done when he gets the ball is stutter step with his left foot and stop dribbling. Pointer can't score unless its a dunk or layup, Greene couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, and Stith still has the ugliest jump shot in college basketball. Too many of these trends seem to be leaking over into each game.
- Here come all the comments of growing pains...yea that's fine and dandy I didn't expect a ton out of this squad but it's been SO DAMN UGLY.
- last but not least, Mike Dunlap is a dunce. He's proved over and over that he can't be a head coach, he didn't make any adjustments in the 2nd half. Marquette opened up with at 9-0 run and he did nothing to change the flow or get us some baskets, no set plays, just a horrific coaching display.

Our recruits, INCLUDING HARKLESS, are a tad bit overrated. 

Halfway thru their first years and they are overrated.
Awesome.

Quote from: P1NSTR1PEZ on January 11, 2012, 09:37:57 PM

Just a disgusting game to watch in the 2nd half.

- Inexcusable, careless play that led to every turnover. No excuses for such ineptitude
- This team proved today that besides Harrison NO ONE can shoot when we need a bucket. What happened to an explosive offense? Unless we are running and gunning at the rim, we can't score. Harkless did jack shit, why can't he seem to step up when we need him? Besides the Providence game, he has been MIA in crunch time.
- God's Gift had his best overall performance in that first half.
- Harrison picking up 5 fouls with 9 or so minutes left in the 2nd half is ridiculous, I didn't agree with all 5, but he has to be smarter and pick his spots, he's too valuable.
- Where is Amir Garrett's offense? It's one thing to not know certain plays but this guy all he has done when he gets the ball is stutter step with his left foot and stop dribbling. Pointer can't score unless its a dunk or layup, Greene couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, and Stith still has the ugliest jump shot in college basketball. Too many of these trends seem to be leaking over into each game.
- Here come all the comments of growing pains...yea that's fine and dandy I didn't expect a ton out of this squad but it's been SO DAMN UGLY.
- last but not least, Mike Dunlap is a dunce. He's proved over and over that he can't be a head coach, he didn't make any adjustments in the 2nd half. Marquette opened up with at 9-0 run and he did nothing to change the flow or get us some baskets, no set plays, just a horrific coaching display.

Our recruits, INCLUDING HARKLESS, are a tad bit overrated. 

According to who? You?

Quote from: desco80 on January 11, 2012, 10:25:21 PM

Quote from: Marillac on January 11, 2012, 10:02:09 PM

Quote from: P1NSTR1PEZ on January 11, 2012, 09:37:57 PM

Just a disgusting game to watch in the 2nd half.

- Inexcusable, careless play that led to every turnover. No excuses for such ineptitude
- This team proved today that besides Harrison NO ONE can shoot when we need a bucket. What happened to an explosive offense? Unless we are running and gunning at the rim, we can't score. Harkless did jack shit, why can't he seem to step up when we need him? Besides the Providence game, he has been MIA in crunch time.
- God's Gift had his best overall performance in that first half.
- Harrison picking up 5 fouls with 9 or so minutes left in the 2nd half is ridiculous, I didn't agree with all 5, but he has to be smarter and pick his spots, he's too valuable.
- Where is Amir Garrett's offense? It's one thing to not know certain plays but this guy all he has done when he gets the ball is stutter step with his left foot and stop dribbling. Pointer can't score unless its a dunk or layup, Greene couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, and Stith still has the ugliest jump shot in college basketball. Too many of these trends seem to be leaking over into each game.
- Here come all the comments of growing pains...yea that's fine and dandy I didn't expect a ton out of this squad but it's been SO DAMN UGLY.
- last but not least, Mike Dunlap is a dunce. He's proved over and over that he can't be a head coach, he didn't make any adjustments in the 2nd half. Marquette opened up with at 9-0 run and he did nothing to change the flow or get us some baskets, no set plays, just a horrific coaching display.

You are a good poster, but this post is ri-#$%^ING-diculous.  Dunlap is a dunce?  Harrison should know better as a freshman?  Garrett should feel comfortable two weeks into a new offense and new defense at a completely new level?  Where is the explosive offense?

C'mon dude.

We were beating Marquette at the half at their place with no depth, no size, and a team of freshman.  We lost Harrison and we lost our chance.  The f'at bastard Gardner was having his way with a buch of tooth picks, but next season Gathers would eat his lunch, Harkless will be a solid 230, and that Precious looking b'astard won't be able to wipe his face without worrying about getting that thrown back at him like every shot he put up on the floor.

Here's the problem...   some posters fall off the deep end after every loss like this (Illwill, Pinstripez etc)  but then half of you overreact in the opposite direction defending the team.   Whether we want to admit it or not --- or whether our emotions will let us think rationally immediately after a loss --- the truth is somewhere in between both these sentiments. 

This game isn't "inexcusable", we're a very short handed, all-freshmen team for crying out loud!   And Moe isn't invisible, nor is Dunlap a "dunce"... at least according to his peers across the college basketball landscape. 

But - at the same time, Marrillac, things aren't all sunshine and rainbows in SJU-land.  And I know you didn't say things we're perfect, but your're providing excuses by giving too much credence to the "we'll be better next year" notion.   One way we'll be better next year is if we make corrections from game to game this season ! 

 We needed to come out with our heads on in the second half and we didn't.  D'angelo may have gotten the short end of the stick from the refs, but he's got to be able to change his game once that becomes a problem.  And Dom, Amir, and Phil need to start to learn to pick up the slack when Harrison is out and teams are denying Moe and GG the ball.   Even if you think of tonight in terms of the big picture, this was a teachable moment and the 3 I just mentioned didn't earn a C ... this was a inarguable  F performance by them in the second half. 

Sky's not falling ... and we certainly are short-handed, but there were a lot of correctable mistakes out there tonight.  Simple as that.

I appreciate being on so many posters' minds while they are posting, but I never "fall off the deep end" mainly because i never had high expectations to begin with.  My complaint(s) have been basically about the ineligible players, and the transfers. 

I will say that Phil Greene has been vastly overrated by many posters here.  And I certainbly fell victim to overrating Harkless.  No, I'm not denying that he is a legit player and should develop into a very good big east player, but after the providence game i think i said he'll go down as a top 3 player in SJU history. 

Moe Harkless has  A LOT to improve on...

Just so I understand. Phil Greene is overrated? The recruit who was the least heralded coming in? The one who has been a pleasant surprise on all accounts? Sure he's struggling but he was recruited to be a role guy and he's now playing 35mpg. Give me a break.

  I don't understand , from a purely on the court analysis, how anyone can be disappointed with any of these players?..  I boggles my mind.  Do they have room for improvement? Of course, they do.  First year players, playing 30-35 minutes a night in the BE.

 To say you had no expectations, but then say everyone is over rated, seems to be a bit contradictory. Or not?  Carry on.

Quote from: P1NSTR1PEZ on January 11, 2012, 09:37:57 PM

Just a disgusting game to watch in the 2nd half.

- Inexcusable, careless play that led to every turnover. No excuses for such ineptitude
- This team proved today that besides Harrison NO ONE can shoot when we need a bucket. What happened to an explosive offense? Unless we are running and gunning at the rim, we can't score. Harkless did jack shit, why can't he seem to step up when we need him? Besides the Providence game, he has been MIA in crunch time.
- God's Gift had his best overall performance in that first half.
- Harrison picking up 5 fouls with 9 or so minutes left in the 2nd half is ridiculous, I didn't agree with all 5, but he has to be smarter and pick his spots, he's too valuable.
- Where is Amir Garrett's offense? It's one thing to not know certain plays but this guy all he has done when he gets the ball is stutter step with his left foot and stop dribbling. Pointer can't score unless its a dunk or layup, Greene couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat, and Stith still has the ugliest jump shot in college basketball. Too many of these trends seem to be leaking over into each game.
- Here come all the comments of growing pains...yea that's fine and dandy I didn't expect a ton out of this squad but it's been SO DAMN UGLY.
- last but not least, Mike Dunlap is a dunce. He's proved over and over that he can't be a head coach, he didn't make any adjustments in the 2nd half. Marquette opened up with at 9-0 run and he did nothing to change the flow or get us some baskets, no set plays, just a horrific coaching display.

Our recruits, INCLUDING HARKLESS, are a tad bit overrated. 

If the #39 rated recruit in the nation is averaging 15.3 and 8.5 as a freshman, I think that's pretty good.
To create a fair comparison, how is everyone else in this class doing that has been rated comparably?

For example, how is Quin Cook doing?

  I don't understand , from a purely on the court analysis, how anyone can be disappointed with any of these players?..  I boggles my mind.  Do they have room for improvement? Of course, they do.  First year players, playing 30-35 minutes a night in the BE.

 To say you had no expectations, but then say everyone is over rated, seems to be a bit contradictory. Or not?  Carry on.

Exactly.  Would love to these certain posters on what they had to say Burrell's freshman year.