NC Asheville Game

Quote from: Celtics11 on December 22, 2012, 01:12:55 AM

Quote from: Chilleb on December 22, 2012, 12:56:31 AM

Rysheed Jordan does not commit ...Reason: not a fan of the 3 man top of the key shuffle offense.

Too bad we didn't secure commitments from Jordan and Lawrence in the early signing period because if results like this continue even Lavin's recruiting will suffer and he will be caught in a Norm Roberts vortex or conundrum if you will (Lavin speak-using 2 phrases or terminologys to say essentially or basically the same thing-oops I did it again).

When Cincinnati destroys St. John's the first week of January, I wonder what our chances will be of landing JL

Players are not going to sign a LOI when you are losing games like this

Doody, if what you predict takes place JL will see that he can start right away and make the NBA after just one year under an established NBA player maker like Coach Lavin. 

As expected, coach speak...

"If you look at our games, we were up nine on Baylor, up 13 on Murray State and up 17 tonight, so if we sustain, we'd probably be 11-1 and ranked 15th in the country tonight. We'd be the same group of players, with the same flaws and deficiencies as the team that's 8-4," said Lavin. "That's why as a coach you don't get too carried away with the prosperity when you're doing well or the adversity when you're not doing well, but instead just keep focused on improvement, especially when you have this young team. They're the same group of kids that built leads in those games, that gave up those leads, and the same group that fought back in some big games that we won, like Detroit and Holy Cross. They're learning about how to sustain, about maturity, about how to finish and every day it's another lesson. Today was a valuable lesson."

As expected, coach speak...

"If you look at our games, we were up nine on Baylor, up 13 on Murray State and up 17 tonight, so if we sustain, we'd probably be 11-1 and ranked 15th in the country tonight. We'd be the same group of players, with the same flaws and deficiencies as the team that's 8-4," said Lavin. "That's why as a coach you don't get too carried away with the prosperity when you're doing well or the adversity when you're not doing well, but instead just keep focused on improvement, especially when you have this young team. They're the same group of kids that built leads in those games, that gave up those leads, and the same group that fought back in some big games that we won, like Detroit and Holy Cross. They're learning about how to sustain, about maturity, about how to finish and every day it's another lesson. Today was a valuable lesson."

I think the reason so many people are frustrated after a loss like this one is the Johnnies are losing games based primarily on two things: defensive effort and rebounding

The team has scoring weapons.  Harrison and Sampson are the stars in that department.  Garrett and Pointer are slashers who can get to the basket on the fast break.  Greene is streaky, but not without offensive talent.

However, there has not been one game this season that the defense has woken up.  They don't keep their men in front of them and do not adjust as the play is breaking down.  And to top it all off, they continue to be dominated in paint game after game despite the fact that they have some big bodies down low.

If you can't score game after game because you have no playmakers, there's usually not an answer to that.  You need offensive weapons or you are just not going to be successful.  But in my book, defense and rebounding is simply about technique and effort.  And the fact that we are not seeing any players improve in either category is a really poor reflection on our coaching staff.  I agree with Lavin in that there is a real possibility that this team could've been 11-1 going into the Villanova game.  But if nobody is going to cover their man and nobody is willing to bang down low or box out, then the fault falls on his shoulders.  If his players aren't giving the full effort in those areas, they don't belong on the court.  Plain and simple.

Quote from: Poison on December 22, 2012, 09:31:13 AM

That kid Atkinson was left wide open. Harrison doesn't guard him. All we hear about is how good our defenders are. Other than Obekpa, who blocks shots, no one takes it seriously.

Hopefully, this loss will be what they to take games seriously.

It's laughable that people are talking NBA about some these guys.
Right now. They are not even ready for the Big East.

It always seems like they can NEVER stay in front of their guys. They take horrible angles and even unathletic guys get by Dom and Amir or anyone else on our team. It's frustrating, it makes me wonder how they practice defense in practice.

Phil Greene is always between his man and the basket...Unfortunately, its the wrong basket...Branch should have been in the game down the stretch for his defense alone -- let alone his far superior PG skills.

Quote from: Celtics11 on December 22, 2012, 01:12:55 AM

Quote from: Chilleb on December 22, 2012, 12:56:31 AM

Rysheed Jordan does not commit ...Reason: not a fan of the 3 man top of the key shuffle offense.

Too bad we didn't secure commitments from Jordan and Lawrence in the early signing period because if results like this continue even Lavin's recruiting will suffer and he will be caught in a Norm Roberts vortex or conundrum if you will (Lavin speak-using 2 phrases or terminologys to say essentially or basically the same thing-oops I did it again).

When Cincinnati destroys St. John's the first week of January, I wonder what our chances will be of landing JL

Players are not going to sign a LOI when you are losing games like this

We lost plenty of games like this last year and still signed a very good class

just once I'd like to see us hold an opponents' top scorer below his average.  We have some pretty decent on ball defenders ( Dom, Felix, Amir)  but you never see them dogging a single guy and the big scorers are getting left so open it's impossible to tell whose fault it is.  This zone defense and the super loose man version are producing a laissez faire attitude on defense and zero physicality leading to no rebounds.  This is not a Saint Johns team in the traditional sense of the term.  They are going through the motions and Lavin's frenetic subbing fixes no responsibility on the guys who are waving at opponents on their way to the hoop.  Our sophs have more minutes experience than a lot of juniors.  We are not that young.  It's time to pick some starters based on defensive performance and let the others earn their time.  There is no system here.  Just players not getting the job done.

just once I'd like to see us hold an opponents' top scorer below his average.  We have some pretty decent on ball defenders ( Dom, Felix, Amir)  but you never see them dogging a single guy and the big scorers are getting left so open it's impossible to tell whose fault it is.  This zone defense and the super loose man version are producing a laissez faire attitude on defense and zero physicality leading to no rebounds.  This is not a Saint Johns team in the traditional sense of the term.  They are going through the motions and Lavin's frenetic subbing fixes no responsibility on the guys who are waving at opponents on their way to the hoop.  Our sophs have more minutes experience than a lot of juniors.  We are not that young.  It's time to pick some starters based on defensive performance and let the others earn their time.  There is no system here.  Just players not getting the job done.

I think a number of posters have hit it on the head....our guys "appear" to have the ability to play very good on ball defense. But, they are so intent on the steal that they put themselves in a position to lose their man...I am sure they teach proper technique...now they need to drill it in by penalizing, via PT, those who don't comply...

Much of the 2nd half, we were playing man and DLo was on Atkinson.  Due to his lack of footspeed, I felt it was a bad matchup for us...and Atkinson torched us. Also, why make your primary offensive threat work so much on D.  Unfortunately, Lavin stuck to his pregame script.  Branch was so impressive early on, that Coach should have played him as much as possible.  If he is as good an on-ball defender as he is reputed to be, he would have helped on both ends.  I also sense that he would have helped this team keep its composure when the lead started to whittle away (even in his first game in a year).

It's laughable that people are talking NBA about some these guys.
Right now. They are not even ready for the Big East.

Amen Brother Amen

It always seems like they can NEVER stay in front of their guys. They take horrible angles and even unathletic guys get by Dom and Amir or anyone else on our team. It's frustrating, it makes me wonder how they practice defense in practice.

I said the same thing weeks and weeks ago and was taken to task by some clown who said my opinion was laughable. It was followed by many posts agreeing with our position. Identify yourself-I'm having a children's birthday party for my granddaughter and would like to hire a clown to entertain.

It's laughable that people are talking NBA about some these guys.
Right now. They are not even ready for the Big East.

I don't see too many names being thrown around for the NBA.  I mentioned Sampson and the kid is an NBA prospect.  CO's name name has been tossed around and he is clearly raw but the NBA draft is all about potential.  CO's height will likely keep him from ever being a 1st rounder

Meanwhile temple is giving Syracuse all they can handle and then some.

Quote from: Poison on December 22, 2012, 09:31:13 AM

It's laughable that people are talking NBA about some these guys.
Right now. They are not even ready for the Big East.

I don't see too many names being thrown around for the NBA.  I mentioned Sampson and the kid is an NBA prospect.  CO's name name has been tossed around and he is clearly raw but the NBA draft is all about potential.  CO's height will likely keep him from ever being a 1st rounder

IMO Phil Greene and Dom were over recruited. There mid major guys.

Quote from: gman on December 22, 2012, 12:41:37 PM

Quote from: Poison on December 22, 2012, 09:31:13 AM

It's laughable that people are talking NBA about some these guys.
Right now. They are not even ready for the Big East.

I don't see too many names being thrown around for the NBA.  I mentioned Sampson and the kid is an NBA prospect.  CO's name name has been tossed around and he is clearly raw but the NBA draft is all about potential.  CO's height will likely keep him from ever being a 1st rounder

IMO Phil Greene and Dom were over recruited. There mid major guys.

would include the incredible Amir making it a trifecta.

Meanwhile temple is giving Syracuse all they can handle and then some.

 Great game. Love watching temple play..most of the time.

Quote from: gman on December 22, 2012, 12:41:37 PM

Quote from: Poison on December 22, 2012, 09:31:13 AM

It's laughable that people are talking NBA about some these guys.
Right now. They are not even ready for the Big East.

I don't see too many names being thrown around for the NBA.  I mentioned Sampson and the kid is an NBA prospect.  CO's name name has been tossed around and he is clearly raw but the NBA draft is all about potential.  CO's height will likely keep him from ever being a 1st rounder

IMO Phil Greene and Dom were over recruited. There mid major guys.

  Crazy that Dom was the highest rated recruit coming in last year.  Higher than Harkless if memory serves..

Quote from: redstorm212 on December 22, 2012, 09:37:10 AM

It always seems like they can NEVER stay in front of their guys. They take horrible angles and even unathletic guys get by Dom and Amir or anyone else on our team. It's frustrating, it makes me wonder how they practice defense in practice.

I said the same thing weeks and weeks ago and was taken to task by some clown who said my opinion was laughable. It was followed by many posts agreeing with our position. Identify yourself-I'm having a children's birthday party for my granddaughter and would like to hire a clown to entertain.

You can save the money and hire yourself.  This stuff is pretty funny.

Jamal 2 assts 4 turnovers
Phil    4 assts  1 turnovers

Jamal's shot blocked 3 times.  Twice he went up in the air caught in between shooting and passing, shot squapped embaressingly back in his face both times, fortunate not to get called for a travel and/or jump ball on both.  Yes, his two assists scored high on style points.

Not down on him at all and didn't expect more from a guy playing his first game in a year with a new team.

But those crying for more play for Jamal last night as the newly annointed point guard savior and reason we lost the game are just being ridiculous.

This is nothing more or less than the misguided "most popular player on a losing football team being the backup quarterback" mentality.

We lost the game in the last minute of the 1st half.  Check it out. 

Jamal 2 assts 4 turnovers
Phil    4 assts  1 turnovers

Jamal's shot blocked 3 times.  Twice he went up in the air caught in between shooting and passing, shot squapped embaressingly back in his face both times, fortunate not to get called for a travel and/or jump ball on both.  Yes, his two assists scored high on style points.

Not down on him at all and didn't expect more from a guy playing his first game in a year with a new team.

But those crying for more play for Jamal last night as the newly annointed point guard savior and reason we lost the game are just being ridiculous.

This is nothing more or less than the misguided "most popular player on a losing football team being the backup quarterback" mentality.

Yes, he had is errors but a comparison of PG skills and ability to get others easy shots is not even close.