Villanova game thread

Quote from: section3 on January 03, 2013, 09:06:09 PM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on January 03, 2013, 01:40:36 PM

Quote from: Choz4Life on January 03, 2013, 01:36:01 PM

Quote from: STJFAN on January 03, 2013, 01:29:16 PM

I would caution blaming the Coach for the players' lack of excution. If Coach designs a play were D'Lo comes off a down screen to get open for the ball and he doesn't get it, is that the Coach's fault? Green, Pointer, and Garrett (love his heart) deserve limited minutes. Marco shouldn't even see the floor. As a team, defensively, they are not playing together and that is on Coach.   

It was playing Phil at the point in the waning minutes of regulation that was on Coach. Phil cannot execute at the point, especially in the halfcourt, like Jamal can.

So while it's on the players to execute, it's on Coach to have the right players on the floor to execute in the most efficient manner possible.

Agreed but Phil hit some big shots down the stretch that got us to OT, you cant have it both ways

Him hitting shots has nothing to do with Choz statement..He is an off guard, plain and simple...he will thrive in that role...not as a PG...Ball should have been in Branch's hands...it cost us the game...

Phil is a great asset andfilled in admirably while we were without a PG...needs to be used corrcetly now...

It costing us the game I believe is a strong statement. We scored 83 points at the end of regulation, not 63. Although Jamal maybe a better option at the point we still scored enough to win, scoring wasn't the issue. The problem was our defense, if we stop them, we win. That cost us the game.

It's a completely accurate statement. He is a terrible point guard. The guy is worse than Geno.

Geno was a pg by trade.  Phil is learning on the job. 

Btw, am I the only one who appreciates what Geno gave us under very difficult circumstances?  We at St. John's are full of self-hate.

Quote from: STJFAN on January 04, 2013, 10:13:19 AM

Quote from: section3 on January 03, 2013, 09:06:09 PM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on January 03, 2013, 01:40:36 PM

Quote from: Choz4Life on January 03, 2013, 01:36:01 PM

Quote from: STJFAN on January 03, 2013, 01:29:16 PM

I would caution blaming the Coach for the players' lack of excution. If Coach designs a play were D'Lo comes off a down screen to get open for the ball and he doesn't get it, is that the Coach's fault? Green, Pointer, and Garrett (love his heart) deserve limited minutes. Marco shouldn't even see the floor. As a team, defensively, they are not playing together and that is on Coach.   

It was playing Phil at the point in the waning minutes of regulation that was on Coach. Phil cannot execute at the point, especially in the halfcourt, like Jamal can.

So while it's on the players to execute, it's on Coach to have the right players on the floor to execute in the most efficient manner possible.

Agreed but Phil hit some big shots down the stretch that got us to OT, you cant have it both ways

Him hitting shots has nothing to do with Choz statement..He is an off guard, plain and simple...he will thrive in that role...not as a PG...Ball should have been in Branch's hands...it cost us the game...

Phil is a great asset andfilled in admirably while we were without a PG...needs to be used corrcetly now...

It costing us the game I believe is a strong statement. We scored 83 points at the end of regulation, not 63. Although Jamal maybe a better option at the point we still scored enough to win, scoring wasn't the issue. The problem was our defense, if we stop them, we win. That cost us the game.

It's a completely accurate statement. He is a terrible point guard. The guy is worse than Geno.

I'm not debating whether or not Phil is a good point guard. I agree that an upgrade is needed at that position. I agree that Jamal WILL be a better option at that position. I disagree that is the reason why we lost. I'm from the school of thought that defense wins games. We scored 83 POINTS!!!!!! Our secound highest scoring output of the season. We average 70 points a game! However terrible a point guard Phil maybe, it's not the reason we lost the game. imo. We shot 47% from the field, 50% from three and had 20 assists. Nova shot 43% from the field, 36% from three and had 14 assists. Offense wasn't the issue, unless you believe we should only care about out scoring our opponents.

Jamal had 4 TO and 3 assists in 23 minutes. Phil had 3 TO and 4 assists in 33 minutes. Jamal passed the eye ball test, but he was also careless with the ball. We couldn't stop anyone and needed to take care of the basketball and maximize our possessions, that's why the ball was in Phil's hands. Again, if we defend and rebound the ball, we win, regardless who was playing point. 

Quote from: Poison on January 04, 2013, 11:21:16 AM

Quote from: STJFAN on January 04, 2013, 10:13:19 AM

Quote from: section3 on January 03, 2013, 09:06:09 PM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on January 03, 2013, 01:40:36 PM

Quote from: Choz4Life on January 03, 2013, 01:36:01 PM

Quote from: STJFAN on January 03, 2013, 01:29:16 PM

I would caution blaming the Coach for the players' lack of excution. If Coach designs a play were D'Lo comes off a down screen to get open for the ball and he doesn't get it, is that the Coach's fault? Green, Pointer, and Garrett (love his heart) deserve limited minutes. Marco shouldn't even see the floor. As a team, defensively, they are not playing together and that is on Coach.   

It was playing Phil at the point in the waning minutes of regulation that was on Coach. Phil cannot execute at the point, especially in the halfcourt, like Jamal can.

So while it's on the players to execute, it's on Coach to have the right players on the floor to execute in the most efficient manner possible.

Agreed but Phil hit some big shots down the stretch that got us to OT, you cant have it both ways

Him hitting shots has nothing to do with Choz statement..He is an off guard, plain and simple...he will thrive in that role...not as a PG...Ball should have been in Branch's hands...it cost us the game...

Phil is a great asset andfilled in admirably while we were without a PG...needs to be used corrcetly now...

It costing us the game I believe is a strong statement. We scored 83 points at the end of regulation, not 63. Although Jamal maybe a better option at the point we still scored enough to win, scoring wasn't the issue. The problem was our defense, if we stop them, we win. That cost us the game.

It's a completely accurate statement. He is a terrible point guard. The guy is worse than Geno.

I'm not debating whether or not Phil is a good point guard. I agree that an upgrade is needed at that position. I agree that Jamal WILL be a better option at that position. I disagree that is the reason why we lost. I'm from the school of thought that defense wins games. We scored 83 POINTS!!!!!! Our secound highest scoring output of the season. We average 70 points a game! However terrible a point guard Phil maybe, it's not the reason we lost the game. imo. We shot 47% from the field, 50% from three and had 20 assists. Nova shot 43% from the field, 36% from three and had 14 assists. Offense wasn't the issue, unless you believe we should only care about out scoring our opponents.

Jamal had 4 TO and 3 assists in 23 minutes. Phil had 3 TO and 4 assists in 33 minutes. Jamal passed the eye ball test, but he was also careless with the ball. We couldn't stop anyone and needed to take care of the basketball and maximize our possessions, that's why the ball was in Phil's hands. Again, if we defend and rebound the ball, we win, regardless who was playing point. 

You have to look at the end of the game. He wasn't able to distribute. It is certainly the wrong way to do things, but having Harrison just do it himself ala Hatten is a better plan than letting Greene bring it up. Greene had a 5-3, and didn't have the confidence to move the ball. THAT was the game.

Quote from: STJFAN on January 04, 2013, 01:01:35 PM

Quote from: Poison on January 04, 2013, 11:21:16 AM

Quote from: STJFAN on January 04, 2013, 10:13:19 AM

Quote from: section3 on January 03, 2013, 09:06:09 PM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on January 03, 2013, 01:40:36 PM

Quote from: Choz4Life on January 03, 2013, 01:36:01 PM

Quote from: STJFAN on January 03, 2013, 01:29:16 PM

I would caution blaming the Coach for the players' lack of excution. If Coach designs a play were D'Lo comes off a down screen to get open for the ball and he doesn't get it, is that the Coach's fault? Green, Pointer, and Garrett (love his heart) deserve limited minutes. Marco shouldn't even see the floor. As a team, defensively, they are not playing together and that is on Coach.   

It was playing Phil at the point in the waning minutes of regulation that was on Coach. Phil cannot execute at the point, especially in the halfcourt, like Jamal can.

So while it's on the players to execute, it's on Coach to have the right players on the floor to execute in the most efficient manner possible.

Agreed but Phil hit some big shots down the stretch that got us to OT, you cant have it both ways

Him hitting shots has nothing to do with Choz statement..He is an off guard, plain and simple...he will thrive in that role...not as a PG...Ball should have been in Branch's hands...it cost us the game...

Phil is a great asset andfilled in admirably while we were without a PG...needs to be used corrcetly now...

It costing us the game I believe is a strong statement. We scored 83 points at the end of regulation, not 63. Although Jamal maybe a better option at the point we still scored enough to win, scoring wasn't the issue. The problem was our defense, if we stop them, we win. That cost us the game.

It's a completely accurate statement. He is a terrible point guard. The guy is worse than Geno.

I'm not debating whether or not Phil is a good point guard. I agree that an upgrade is needed at that position. I agree that Jamal WILL be a better option at that position. I disagree that is the reason why we lost. I'm from the school of thought that defense wins games. We scored 83 POINTS!!!!!! Our secound highest scoring output of the season. We average 70 points a game! However terrible a point guard Phil maybe, it's not the reason we lost the game. imo. We shot 47% from the field, 50% from three and had 20 assists. Nova shot 43% from the field, 36% from three and had 14 assists. Offense wasn't the issue, unless you believe we should only care about out scoring our opponents.

Jamal had 4 TO and 3 assists in 23 minutes. Phil had 3 TO and 4 assists in 33 minutes. Jamal passed the eye ball test, but he was also careless with the ball. We couldn't stop anyone and needed to take care of the basketball and maximize our possessions, that's why the ball was in Phil's hands. Again, if we defend and rebound the ball, we win, regardless who was playing point. 

You have to look at the end of the game. He wasn't able to distribute. It is certainly the wrong way to do things, but having Harrison just do it himself ala Hatten is a better plan than letting Greene bring it up. Greene had a 5-3, and didn't have the confidence to move the ball. THAT was the game.

Phil wasn't able to distribute the entire game, not just the end of it. He's not a point guard. If Coach would have had Jamal in and he turned over the ball, or was forcing things like he shown all game, I know some of you would be on Coach for having him in there. Its also possible that we would have been able to excute better out of the half court and score, maybe. These are all possibilities, what is certain is if they don't score, we win. There seems to be to much of a focus on the offensive side of the court. If Amir doesn't commit that foul at the end we probably win. It goes both ways. We lost the game because we gave up 16 offensive rebounds and 34 points at the free throw line.

That's it.  We're done.

Using the same time honored tradition of allowing the board to choose for me that brought me to revere Avery "Single game three-point record holder" Patterson and Paris "Hilton" Horne as my favorite Johnnies; Phil "Mr. Greenjeans" Greene lV is now officially my favorite player on this years model. 

Deangelo "D'lo or 3'lo" Harrison is 2nd place in the standings.

The board has spoken.  Thank you!

That's it.  We're done.

Using the same time honored tradition of allowing the board to choose for me that brought me to revere Avery "Single game three-point record holder" Patterson and Paris "Hilton" Horne as my favorite Johnnies; Phil "Mr. Greenjeans" Greene lV is now officially my favorite player on this years model. 

Deangelo "D'lo or 3'lo" Harrison is 2nd place in the standings.

The board has spoken.  Thank you!


I think the criticism is more towards Lavin playing Green at the point. At least mine is. Greene is a good player , he is just not a point guard. He would not be a good Center either and probably wouldn't be a good marine biologist. He is being put in a tough spot, but he should not play there any longer or practice marine biology.

That's it.  We're done.

Using the same time honored tradition of allowing the board to choose for me that brought me to revere Avery "Single game three-point record holder" Patterson and Paris "Hilton" Horne as my favorite Johnnies; Phil "Mr. Greenjeans" Greene lV is now officially my favorite player on this years model. 

Deangelo "D'lo or 3'lo" Harrison is 2nd place in the standings.

The board has spoken.  Thank you!


I think the criticism is more towards Lavin playing Green at the point. At least mine is. Greene is a good player , he is just not a point guard. He would not be a good Center either and probably wouldn't be a good marine biologist. He is being put in a tough spot, but he should not play there any longer or practice marine biology.

Exactly. He had great moments last game, all of them were off the ball in attack mode.

 Since we can't rebound anyway we should just keep starting Green, Branch, and Dlo. Obekpa and Jakkar down low.

 40 minutes of hell. Not the kind we have witnessed the last few games, rather full court press constantly and we should shoot the ball within 12 seconds every single time.  1/2 court offense is dreadful.  We can score when we push, push, push...  Defensively, if you can't rebound, you better make the other guys turn the ball over.

 40 minutes of hell. Not the kind we have witnessed the last few games, rather full court press constantly and we should shoot the ball within 12 seconds every single time.  1/2 court offense is dreadful.  We can score when we push, push, push...  Defensively, if you can't rebound, you better make the other guys turn the ball over.

Hmmmm

We don't get stops and we don't rebound, how much running could we do? Hard to run when you are taking the ball out of the net.

We don't get stops and we don't rebound, how much running could we do? Hard to run when you are taking the ball out of the net.

  yes, i know, that's what i said.  I was suggesting we press for the full 40 minutes and try to create as many turnovers as possible, since we can't stop teams from making 70% from 3 or rebound.    We have enough bodies to run in and out.  It's worth a shot and would at least be entertaining.

 

Quote from: we are sju on January 04, 2013, 03:37:07 PM

We don't get stops and we don't rebound, how much running could we do? Hard to run when you are taking the ball out of the net.

  yes, i know, that's what i said.  I was suggesting we press for the full 40 minutes and try to create as many turnovers as possible, since we can't stop teams from making 70% from 3 or rebound.    We have enough bodies to run in and out.  It's worth a shot and would at least be entertaining.

 

I worry about two things.  Basketball IQ and fouls.

I don't find us unentertaining. Unorganized, sloppy and frustrating yes. Unentertaining, no. Maybe it is becuase I still have visions of Geno and Mase in my head. Hell, even watching Phil Greene dribble around in a circle is pretty amusing.

Hell, even watching Phil Greene dribble around in a circle is pretty amusing.

To quote Fun- Shirley you jest?

The outcome of his dribbling around aimlessly is frustrating. While he is doing it you can't help but laugh. Maybe becuase I have a young son and it is enjoyable watching him do things for the first time. Greene playing the point has a similar effect on me.

Quote from: boo3 on January 04, 2013, 04:20:47 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 04, 2013, 03:37:07 PM

We don't get stops and we don't rebound, how much running could we do? Hard to run when you are taking the ball out of the net.

  yes, i know, that's what i said.  I was suggesting we press for the full 40 minutes and try to create as many turnovers as possible, since we can't stop teams from making 70% from 3 or rebound.    We have enough bodies to run in and out.  It's worth a shot and would at least be entertaining.

 

I worry about two things.  Basketball IQ and fouls.

 Yeah, the fouls thing could be an issue, but I think there are enough bodies.  The IQ thing doesn't worry me too much.  If we play helter skelter there is less time to actually use their IQ. They are reacting and playing, rather than thinking....

 It may not work, but neither is what is happening now. 

Quote from: Moose on January 04, 2013, 04:25:06 PM

Quote from: boo3 on January 04, 2013, 04:20:47 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 04, 2013, 03:37:07 PM

We don't get stops and we don't rebound, how much running could we do? Hard to run when you are taking the ball out of the net.

  yes, i know, that's what i said.  I was suggesting we press for the full 40 minutes and try to create as many turnovers as possible, since we can't stop teams from making 70% from 3 or rebound.    We have enough bodies to run in and out.  It's worth a shot and would at least be entertaining.

 

I worry about two things.  Basketball IQ and fouls.

 Yeah, the fouls thing could be an issue, but I think there are enough bodies.  The IQ thing doesn't worry me too much.  If we play helter skelter there is less time to actually use their IQ. They are reacting and playing, rather than thinking....

 It may not work, but neither is what is happening now.

Dunlap's absence is definitely being missed on defense. Our help defense and rotation is atrocious. Its still early, but Coach's decision to choose Martin as Dunlap's replacement hasn't panned out yet. I'm curious to know what Martin will bring to the program.

Quote from: boo3 on January 04, 2013, 04:39:38 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 04, 2013, 04:25:06 PM

Quote from: boo3 on January 04, 2013, 04:20:47 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 04, 2013, 03:37:07 PM

We don't get stops and we don't rebound, how much running could we do? Hard to run when you are taking the ball out of the net.

  yes, i know, that's what i said.  I was suggesting we press for the full 40 minutes and try to create as many turnovers as possible, since we can't stop teams from making 70% from 3 or rebound.    We have enough bodies to run in and out.  It's worth a shot and would at least be entertaining.

 

I worry about two things.  Basketball IQ and fouls.

 Yeah, the fouls thing could be an issue, but I think there are enough bodies.  The IQ thing doesn't worry me too much.  If we play helter skelter there is less time to actually use their IQ. They are reacting and playing, rather than thinking....

 It may not work, but neither is what is happening now.

Dunlap's absence is definitely being missed on defense. Our help defense and rotation is atrocious. Its still early, but Coach's decision to choose Martin as Dunlap's replacement hasn't panned out yet. I'm curious to know what Martin will bring to the program.

Don't you think it's a little unfair to compare Martin to a guy who just left for the NBA?   I'm not saying Martin is contributing in a major way... But who is anyone to say he isn't ?  How come the rest of the staff isn't being viewed this way ?  Who is to say what anyone brings to this program ? 

Someone should go back to see what this board was saying about Dulap at this time last year. The lynch party for him was out and snorting back then. Now he was the indispensable cog. How quickly the fans forget. Simply because Lavin was not on the bench last year does not mean he was not dictating to his staff what the plan was, in all its nuances.