Who's act on the court is more unacceptable

Quote from: Poison on March 06, 2013, 12:09:47 AM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on March 06, 2013, 12:01:16 AM

Although i'd rather have Dom avoid situations like this, I dont have a problem with him defending himself. I love his heart and passion. I'm more disappointed in getting waxed in the 2nd half and only scoring 40 points.

Dom wasn't defending himself. He wasn't getting attacked. He was getting made fun of.

Looks like to me he got smacked in the face

Beidsheid pimp smacked Dom.  Not saying it was right, but it wasn't unprovoked.

I'd take Dom on my team any day. He fights for the name on his chest not for himself.

Harrison would have had a few gifs like this if practice were filmed. Big difference.

I really wish details would leak so we wouldn't have to endure all of the Harrison apologists.

Lots of SJ fans take things WAY too seriously. The negatives seem to weigh double what the positives do. Obviously it's never a good thing to have your team fight on national TV, but why is ND getting a pass here? All the media reports seem to imply SJ initiated everything unprovoked. They have their idea already that ND is this flawless pretty school with no marks on their record, and that SJ is just a team of thugs from Queens. Anyone else notice this? It's sad, but it totally reveals people's anti-SJ bias whether in the media or on twitter. I think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. IMO this wasn't that unexpected...fights happen all the time in sports...if anyone knew the negative and desperate culture surrounding this team recently ontop of the embarrassment vs. ND, they would understand more.

It was a 3 second thing and no one got hurt...it's on the front page of CNN sports, the NYPost, ESPN CBB, etc. we get more attention for negativity than our high potential. It's not the fighting that was bad...it was getting pounded then fighting. UMiami was a legitimate bunch of thugs with their notorious football team in the 80's, but they won all the time so people respected it. Same with the Mets in 1986, past Yankees teams, etc. ND is a traitor school that hides behind a Catholic facade while they are secretly all about greed and corruption. They covered up rape cases, but of course you won't hear that. If women were raped at SJ, it would be all over. ND gets a free pass all the time.

I agree with Redstormynight.  The media's immediate reaction was to blame Dom/SJU even though all they could see was Dom reacting to the ND guy touching his face.  So we're the thugs and worse we spoiled Cooley's senior night ovation?!  I don't want to make this about ND.  I like ND as an institution and I support ND football since we don't have our own program.

I wish Knight had looked at Digger Phelps and told him "Good for the St. John's guy standing up for himself and not taking shit from those ND chumps."

Quote from: Redstormy80 on March 06, 2013, 12:35:31 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 06, 2013, 12:09:47 AM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on March 06, 2013, 12:01:16 AM

Although i'd rather have Dom avoid situations like this, I dont have a problem with him defending himself. I love his heart and passion. I'm more disappointed in getting waxed in the 2nd half and only scoring 40 points.

Dom wasn't defending himself. He wasn't getting attacked. He was getting made fun of.

Looks like to me he got smacked in the face

Beidsheid pimp smacked Dom.  Not saying it was right, but it wasn't unprovoked.

Whyw as he on the court in the first place in that situation?!  There was NOTHING to gain from him being out there in a blowout after he got the flagrant-1.  NOTHING.

Maybe Dom was out there because he is the guy on our team that sets an example for what it means to play hard all the time, which includes getting in people's faces, doing dirty work, not taking shit.  What sort of example would Lavin have made if he took the one guy who cared (that is, Dom) out of the game for playing with heart?

Quote from: MCNPA on March 06, 2013, 02:08:01 AM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on March 06, 2013, 12:35:31 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 06, 2013, 12:09:47 AM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on March 06, 2013, 12:01:16 AM

Although i'd rather have Dom avoid situations like this, I dont have a problem with him defending himself. I love his heart and passion. I'm more disappointed in getting waxed in the 2nd half and only scoring 40 points.

Dom wasn't defending himself. He wasn't getting attacked. He was getting made fun of.

Looks like to me he got smacked in the face

Beidsheid pimp smacked Dom.  Not saying it was right, but it wasn't unprovoked.

Whyw as he on the court in the first place in that situation?!  There was NOTHING to gain from him being out there in a blowout after he got the flagrant-1.  NOTHING.

Theo personally my mentality is to stop them and foul them hard, but thats not the point I'm trying to make here.  You keep saying why was he out there.  Maybe I missed it but have you asked why Brey had his guys out there up 26?

Maybe Dom was out there because he is the guy on our team that sets an example for what it means to play hard all the time, which includes getting in people's faces, doing dirty work, not taking shit.  What sort of example would Lavin have made if he took the one guy who cared (that is, Dom) out of the game for playing with heart?

Fighting on the court is fake toughness.  Real toughness is being able to restrain yourself from putting your team in a bad situation (which is losing said player for a game).  There was absolutely no reason for Dom to be out there last night in those final few minutes.  In fact, I would even go as far as to say NONE of the regulars should've been out there because by that point they stopped playing hard (and that includes Dom).  Walkons would've competed harder those final few minutes.

Quote from: TRabinowitz on March 06, 2013, 08:45:16 AM

Quote from: MCNPA on March 06, 2013, 02:08:01 AM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on March 06, 2013, 12:35:31 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 06, 2013, 12:09:47 AM

Quote from: Redstormy80 on March 06, 2013, 12:01:16 AM

Although i'd rather have Dom avoid situations like this, I dont have a problem with him defending himself. I love his heart and passion. I'm more disappointed in getting waxed in the 2nd half and only scoring 40 points.

Dom wasn't defending himself. He wasn't getting attacked. He was getting made fun of.

Looks like to me he got smacked in the face

Beidsheid pimp smacked Dom.  Not saying it was right, but it wasn't unprovoked.

Whyw as he on the court in the first place in that situation?!  There was NOTHING to gain from him being out there in a blowout after he got the flagrant-1.  NOTHING.

Theo personally my mentality is to stop them and foul them hard, but thats not the point I'm trying to make here.  You keep saying why was he out there.  Maybe I missed it but have you asked why Brey had his guys out there up 26?

I agree with you that they shouldn't have been out there either but there is a slight difference. None of Brey's guys committed a frustrated flagrant-1 a few minutes earlier.  The players on the losing team are clearly the more emotionally vulnerable in that spot.  My mentality as a coach in any blowout in the final few minutes is that nothing positive can come with having players out there.  If I was Brey I would've pulled my guys too.

I agree with Redstormynight.  The media's immediate reaction was to blame Dom/SJU even though all they could see was Dom reacting to the ND guy touching his face.  So we're the thugs and worse we spoiled Cooley's senior night ovation?!  I don't want to make this about ND.  I like ND as an institution and I support ND football since we don't have our own program.

I wish Knight had looked at Digger Phelps and told him "Good for the St. John's guy standing up for himself and not taking shit from those ND chumps."

I'd ask whether you were joking, but I know better.

Pointer punched that kid because Pointer is a bully and a punk. He's been that way all year. It's the not the first time he's been chippy and it won't be the last. He plays good against bad teams and bad against good ones. Last night be played against a good one and stunk up the joint, in front of his proud father. He and his team were humilated. He'd already slapped some dope in the head for no reason and his reaction to what was at best a slight love tap from someone he'd been going at all night was beyond the pale.

And yet various fans are this morning justifying his behavior. Those who are claiming he couldn't help it because he's from the projects have psychological issues. Those blaming Brey for not putting his walk ons in earlier are whiny little bitches. Those lauding Pointer to standing up a bully are blind. This would all be par for the course were it not for the sanctimonious gas we've been hearing this week in regards Harrison the cancer, who various posters are suggesting should be medicated and institutionalized before crawling back and asking heroic Steve Lavin for forgiveness. Whatever alleged lesson Lavin was trying to impart to his team about things more important than winning: it didn't take.

Say what you will about Norm's players but at least they knew how to lose like gentlemen.

Adding Boxing to your repertoire?
He connect fist to face and the throws in a forearm shot after they lock up.
Now were criticizing the way our kids fight?
Lets stick to their missed jumpshots.


Sorry Moose, I agree he didn't commit to the punch.Once the punch landed he didn't follow through and he sort of threw it with a floppy wrist. Billy Goodwin flooring David Wingate and Jayson Williams beating up Shamsid Dean at midcourt were the best two SJU fighters I have seen

Maybe I missed it but have you asked why Brey had his guys out there up 26?

Maybe Brey thought his team needed to know how to play against a crappy poorly coached team with a big lead?

Are you suggesting every time a team gets up 20 they should clear the bench? Because that's not how it works in my experience. Besides which he was taking his starters out at the time, on senior night, to a huge round of applause.

If SJ didn't want to lose by 30 maybe they shouldn't have quit playing after 25 minutes. If they were hoping to play on a more level playing field they should have scheduled the girl's team.

Blaming Brey. Good grief.

Adding Boxing to your repertoire?
He connect fist to face and the throws in a forearm shot after they lock up.
Now were criticizing the way our kids fight?
Lets stick to their missed jumpshots.


Sorry Moose, I agree he didn't commit to the punch.Once the punch landed he didn't follow through and he sort of threw it with a floppy wrist. Billy Goodwin flooring David Wingate and Jayson Williams beating up Shamsid Dean at midcourt were the best two SJU fighters I have seen

Kevin Williams great sly rap artist.

Sorry Moose, I agree he didn't commit to the punch.Once the punch landed he didn't follow through and he sort of threw it with a floppy wrist. Billy Goodwin flooring David Wingate and Jayson Williams beating up Shamsid Dean at midcourt were the best two SJU fighters I have seen

A punch is a punch.  Don't know how you can definitively say its a floppy punch or didnt connect hard on tv.  Its like needing irrefutable evidence to overturn an NFL call.  Later in the video he does land a forearm shiver.  We're STJ fans shouldn't we be saying the ND player should have taken it like a man

That being said, we're ex bff's now

Say what you will about Norm's players but at least they knew how to lose like gentlemen.

Accepting humiliating losses, even if done graciously, is not what I want to see.  I'd rather see fire and hunger and frustration. 

There has been a massive overreaction to this.  Play enough games and this happens.  I played HS basketball on Long Island and these altercations happened sorta routinely.  It's almost never "right," and it certainly cannot be condoned or go unpunished.  I simply don't think this is that bad.  Dom is not a thug, he is a competitor and plays with pride.  I'd take this an Aquille Carr type off the court incident every time.

Calling it a "brawl" or comparing it to the Pittsburgh incident 10 years ago is absurd (Robbins did both). 

Quote from: Moose on March 06, 2013, 08:52:20 AM

Maybe I missed it but have you asked why Brey had his guys out there up 26?

Maybe Brey thought his team needed to know how to play against a crappy poorly coached team with a big lead?

Are you suggesting every time a team gets up 20 they should clear the bench? Because that's not how it works in my experience. Besides which he was taking his starters out at the time, on senior night, to a huge round of applause.

If SJ didn't want to lose by 30 maybe they shouldn't have quit playing after 25 minutes. If they were hoping to play on a more level playing field they should have scheduled the girl's team.

Blaming Brey. Good grief.

Good grief.  I am not blaming Brey.
Theo kept harping on why Lavin had his guys in there and I asked if he felt the same way about Brey.

Actually Lavin is a master of pulling guys up 17 or so and then watching the lead whittle away (Hello Asheville)

I just want to get this straight. Dom was provoked so he was ok throwing a girly punch at the kid. Well maybe Harrison's eye rolls were provoked by having to listen to Lavin coach him on offense. This offense makes my eyes roll, sometimes it even makes them bleed.

Theo kept harping on why Lavin had his guys in there and I asked if he felt the same way about Brey.

Actually Lavin is a master of pulling guys up 17 or so and then watching the lead whittle away (Hello Asheville)

Brey's players hadn't quit on him and none of them had punched anyone earlier in the game and it was senior night. Brey should cut Cooley's last few minutes on ND's home court because Lavin is a crappy coach and his team stinks? How does one follow from the other.

Quote from: Moose on March 06, 2013, 09:09:41 AM

Theo kept harping on why Lavin had his guys in there and I asked if he felt the same way about Brey.

Actually Lavin is a master of pulling guys up 17 or so and then watching the lead whittle away (Hello Asheville)

Brey's players hadn't quit on him and none of them had punched anyone earlier in the game and it was senior night. Brey should cut Cooley's last few minutes on ND's home court because Lavin is a crappy coach and his team stinks? How does one follow from the other.

Hello.  I'm not saying he should have.  Goodbye.

This doesn't surprise me at all.   We've been a step away from this happening all season.   
About a week ago I was thinking of starting a thread about the fact every game we seem to have somebody in a skirmish who is acting in a way that is detrimental to the team.   Individually they could be considered isolated events, but taken as a whole - it's a cause for concern. 
Doms been in people's faces all year.   And in the Louisville game he probably should've been t'd up for that push when guys were on the ground for the loose ball.
Sampson hip checked a guy running down the court in the first ND game.
Garrett was close to fighting at the end of the Georgetown game.
Branch had his nonsense in the Villanova game.

These things aren't all apart of the game.   The hard fouls and errant elbows that instigated our guys.... that is part of the game.   But not everybody reacts the way our players do.
There's an unacceptable level of self discipline on this team, and coach needs to get a handle on that.