LONGWOOD - Game Discussion

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on November 27, 2013, 11:09:39 AM

Quote from: desco80 on November 27, 2013, 10:29:31 AM

Quote from: shamsman2 on November 26, 2013, 09:15:09 PM

Quote from: paultzman on November 26, 2013, 09:10:45 PM

Jordan had 8 points, four assists and two steals.  Give him the ball Lav.

I agree, Branch brings very little upside. I wonder do the coaches tell the PGs not to penetrate and dish?

I vehemently disagree.   He makes some bad decisions with the ball - but I can live with that because the ball moves better with him in the lineup than at any other point in the game.     Branch and Jordan also probe the zone, no one else even attempts to do it.   
Two of the many things I'd like to see this weekend are  Branch getting more PT, and Dom being told to be more aggressive when he gets the ball. 

Couldnt agree with you more desco. Branch is the only player to ever use ball fakes and that has any chance of getting anywhere off the dribble. All of our other guards need to be in a triple threat position to have any chance to get by their man.

Branch and Sheed could be a nice PG tandem and Jordan could play off guard as well at times.. He is a like a young colt with great promise. Let him fly Lav! Mistakes, yes. Upside, tremendous IMO.

Whenever our guys get in the paint with the basketball, overall good things happen. We really should be practicing letting Jordan and Branch penetrate and dish rather than practicing hoisting jumpshots all game. Because if we're going to beat the big boys, we're going to have to score inside, alot.

Quote from: paultzman on November 27, 2013, 11:15:39 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on November 27, 2013, 11:09:39 AM

Quote from: desco80 on November 27, 2013, 10:29:31 AM

Quote from: shamsman2 on November 26, 2013, 09:15:09 PM

Quote from: paultzman on November 26, 2013, 09:10:45 PM

Jordan had 8 points, four assists and two steals.  Give him the ball Lav.

I agree, Branch brings very little upside. I wonder do the coaches tell the PGs not to penetrate and dish?

I vehemently disagree.   He makes some bad decisions with the ball - but I can live with that because the ball moves better with him in the lineup than at any other point in the game.     Branch and Jordan also probe the zone, no one else even attempts to do it.   
Two of the many things I'd like to see this weekend are  Branch getting more PT, and Dom being told to be more aggressive when he gets the ball. 

Couldnt agree with you more desco. Branch is the only player to ever use ball fakes and that has any chance of getting anywhere off the dribble. All of our other guards need to be in a triple threat position to have any chance to get by their man.

Branch and Sheed could be a nice PG tandem and Jordan could play off guard as well at times.. He is a like a young colt with great promise. Let him fly Lav! Mistakes, yes. Upside, tremendous IMO.

Whenever our guys get in the paint with the basketball, overall good things happen. We really should be practicing letting Jordan and Branch penetrate and dish rather than practicing hoisting jumpshots all game. Because if we're going to beat the big boys, we're going to have to score inside, alot.

Agree

Right now with the poor shooting, teams are collapsing the middle making it difficult to work the ball inside. We are going to need a few games where we shoot respectable to make teams play more man freeing up the inside. Until then we are going to get open looks from the outside and need to knock down more jumpers.  This is why hooper has to be the X factor moving ahead.  We don't have to shoot like Craig hodge but we can't shoot like Chris Dudley either. Somewhere in the middle will allow Sampson and Sanchez be able to score down low and that should get our team scoring at a more consistent level. 

One thing that has really been concerning is how slower guards for the opposition have gotten into lanes so easily which when we play better teams are going to be smarter, and either drive at big men trying to cause our bigs to help, either picking up fouls or easy dump off baskets.  The really good guards will also stop and pop for a short jumper.  This is one area that desperately needs to get better, sooner than later.

Quote from: paultzman on November 27, 2013, 11:15:39 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on November 27, 2013, 11:09:39 AM

Quote from: desco80 on November 27, 2013, 10:29:31 AM

Quote from: shamsman2 on November 26, 2013, 09:15:09 PM

Quote from: paultzman on November 26, 2013, 09:10:45 PM

Jordan had 8 points, four assists and two steals.  Give him the ball Lav.

I agree, Branch brings very little upside. I wonder do the coaches tell the PGs not to penetrate and dish?

I vehemently disagree.   He makes some bad decisions with the ball - but I can live with that because the ball moves better with him in the lineup than at any other point in the game.     Branch and Jordan also probe the zone, no one else even attempts to do it.   
Two of the many things I'd like to see this weekend are  Branch getting more PT, and Dom being told to be more aggressive when he gets the ball. 

Couldnt agree with you more desco. Branch is the only player to ever use ball fakes and that has any chance of getting anywhere off the dribble. All of our other guards need to be in a triple threat position to have any chance to get by their man.

Branch and Sheed could be a nice PG tandem and Jordan could play off guard as well at times.. He is a like a young colt with great promise. Let him fly Lav! Mistakes, yes. Upside, tremendous IMO.

Whenever our guys get in the paint with the basketball, overall good things happen. We really should be practicing letting Jordan and Branch penetrate and dish rather than practicing hoisting jumpshots all game. Because if we're going to beat the big boys, we're going to have to score inside, alot.

Absolutely.    Penetrating has to be priority 1, 2, and 3.   The facts are that we're not a great outside shooting team, and while Sampson and Sanchez are very talented - they aren't true post players that demand the ball down low and have good back to the basket moves.   I wish they did.   But we can't play the traditional inside-out game with out bigs down low and shooters behind the arc.   The offensive scheme we run doesn't lend itself to that and our players aren't built for that.

We can however penetrate and dish.   Whether we kick it out to an open shooter, or drop a pass to Obekpa/Sanchez/Jakarr when their man comes to help - either way those are the good opportunities s we should be trying to get.    And I'm sure the coaches are working on it.   

What I don't get is why the guards, who shoot terribly in the first half, don't feed the post and get the bigs more involved.

Because Oblockpa doesn't have any low post moves; Jakarr likes to play facing the basket; and DR is hanging out by the three point line.

Absolutely.    Penetrating has to be priority 1, 2, and 3.   The facts are that we're not a great outside shooting team, and while Sampson and Sanchez are very talented - they aren't true post players that demand the ball down low and have good back to the basket moves.   I wish they did.   But we can't play the traditional inside-out game with out bigs down low and shooters behind the arc.   The offensive scheme we run doesn't lend itself to that and our players aren't built for that.

We can however penetrate and dish.   Whether we kick it out to an open shooter, or drop a pass to Obekpa/Sanchez/Jakarr when their man comes to help - either way those are the good opportunities s we should be trying to get.    And I'm sure the coaches are working on it.   

Actually we can't penetrate and dish, that's one of the problems we face offensively that no system can help. The only person outside of Jordan who could is Branch but he seems unwilling to do so. That's why Jordan is so important to the success of this team as he is the only guard capable of shooting, penetrating and passing.

@NYPost_Brazille: For the St. John's fans freaking out about team's unimpressive wins, Kentucky is struggling with Eastern Michigan

@NYPost_Brazille: For the St. John's fans freaking out about team's unimpressive wins, Kentucky is struggling with Eastern Michigan

Give me Kentucky's roster, and I'd calm down in a heartbeat. 

@NYPost_Brazille: For the St. John's fans freaking out about team's unimpressive wins, Kentucky is struggling with Eastern Michigan

@NYPost_Brazille For the homeless guys worrying about the wobbly wheels on their shopping carts, the tire pressure on Bill Gates Rolls Royce Phantom is a little low

Quote from: paultzman on November 27, 2013, 05:27:01 PM

@NYPost_Brazille: For the St. John's fans freaking out about team's unimpressive wins, Kentucky is struggling with Eastern Michigan

@NYPost_Brazille For the homeless guys worrying about the wobbly wheels on their shopping carts, the tire pressure on Bill Gates Rolls Royce Phantom is a little low

Hahahaha ty.

Quote from: chronicbucks on November 26, 2013, 09:30:14 PM

Quote from: paultzman on November 26, 2013, 09:10:45 PM

Jordan had 8 points, four assists and two steals.  Give him the ball Lav.

Didn't get to see the game - how many minutes did he get? Was he a primary piece of the offense?

What I don't get is why the guards, who shoot terribly in the first half, don't feed the post and get the bigs more involved.

Because Harrison and Greene look for their shots 1st.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on November 27, 2013, 11:09:39 AM

Quote from: desco80 on November 27, 2013, 10:29:31 AM

Quote from: shamsman2 on November 26, 2013, 09:15:09 PM

Quote from: paultzman on November 26, 2013, 09:10:45 PM

Jordan had 8 points, four assists and two steals.  Give him the ball Lav.

I agree, Branch brings very little upside. I wonder do the coaches tell the PGs not to penetrate and dish?

I vehemently disagree.   He makes some bad decisions with the ball - but I can live with that because the ball moves better with him in the lineup than at any other point in the game.     Branch and Jordan also probe the zone, no one else even attempts to do it.   
Two of the many things I'd like to see this weekend are  Branch getting more PT, and Dom being told to be more aggressive when he gets the ball. 

Couldnt agree with you more desco. Branch is the only player to ever use ball fakes and that has any chance of getting anywhere off the dribble. All of our other guards need to be in a triple threat position to have any chance to get by their man.

Branch and Sheed could be a nice PG tandem and Jordan could play off guard as well at times.. He is a like a young colt with great promise. Let him fly Lav! Mistakes, yes. Upside, tremendous IMO.

+1000

Quote from: desco80 on November 27, 2013, 11:45:48 AM

Absolutely.    Penetrating has to be priority 1, 2, and 3.   The facts are that we're not a great outside shooting team, and while Sampson and Sanchez are very talented - they aren't true post players that demand the ball down low and have good back to the basket moves.   I wish they did.   But we can't play the traditional inside-out game with out bigs down low and shooters behind the arc.   The offensive scheme we run doesn't lend itself to that and our players aren't built for that.

We can however penetrate and dish.   Whether we kick it out to an open shooter, or drop a pass to Obekpa/Sanchez/Jakarr when their man comes to help - either way those are the good opportunities s we should be trying to get.    And I'm sure the coaches are working on it.   

Actually we can't penetrate and dish, that's one of the problems we face offensively that no system can help. The only person outside of Jordan who could is Branch but he seems unwilling to do so. That's why Jordan is so important to the success of this team as he is the only guard capable of shooting, penetrating and passing.

So let me get this straight.  We have no guys who can penetrate and pass.  We have no players who can play back to the basket.  And we have no players who can shoot.

Maybe SJU should have been projected to be dead last.

Quote from: paultzman on November 27, 2013, 05:27:01 PM

@NYPost_Brazille: For the St. John's fans freaking out about team's unimpressive wins, Kentucky is struggling with Eastern Michigan

Give me Kentucky's roster, and I'd calm down in a heartbeat. 

No you wouldn't.  That is a copout.  In fact just the obvious most of the whiners would be whining even louder.

Quote from: desco80 on November 27, 2013, 11:45:48 AM

Absolutely.    Penetrating has to be priority 1, 2, and 3.   The facts are that we're not a great outside shooting team, and while Sampson and Sanchez are very talented - they aren't true post players that demand the ball down low and have good back to the basket moves.   I wish they did.   But we can't play the traditional inside-out game with out bigs down low and shooters behind the arc.   The offensive scheme we run doesn't lend itself to that and our players aren't built for that.

We can however penetrate and dish.   Whether we kick it out to an open shooter, or drop a pass to Obekpa/Sanchez/Jakarr when their man comes to help - either way those are the good opportunities s we should be trying to get.    And I'm sure the coaches are working on it.   

Actually we can't penetrate and dish, that's one of the problems we face offensively that no system can help. The only person outside of Jordan who could is Branch but he seems unwilling to do so. That's why Jordan is so important to the success of this team as he is the only guard capable of shooting, penetrating and passing.

I actually think Branch does look to penetrate....sometimes a bit out of control but at least he gets the ball into the paint...would like to see it earlier in the shot clock and not just as a last resort when the passing at  the top of key has failed to yield any results

Quote from: SJUFAN on November 27, 2013, 03:12:28 PM

Quote from: desco80 on November 27, 2013, 11:45:48 AM

Absolutely.    Penetrating has to be priority 1, 2, and 3.   The facts are that we're not a great outside shooting team, and while Sampson and Sanchez are very talented - they aren't true post players that demand the ball down low and have good back to the basket moves.   I wish they did.   But we can't play the traditional inside-out game with out bigs down low and shooters behind the arc.   The offensive scheme we run doesn't lend itself to that and our players aren't built for that.

We can however penetrate and dish.   Whether we kick it out to an open shooter, or drop a pass to Obekpa/Sanchez/Jakarr when their man comes to help - either way those are the good opportunities s we should be trying to get.    And I'm sure the coaches are working on it.   

Actually we can't penetrate and dish, that's one of the problems we face offensively that no system can help. The only person outside of Jordan who could is Branch but he seems unwilling to do so. That's why Jordan is so important to the success of this team as he is the only guard capable of shooting, penetrating and passing.

So let me get this straight.  We have no guys who can penetrate and pass.  We have no players who can play back to the basket.  And we have no players who can shoot.

Maybe SJU should have been projected to be dead last.

We're the deepest team in the Big East, that should count for something.

Quote from: DFF6 on November 27, 2013, 05:49:46 PM

Quote from: paultzman on November 27, 2013, 05:27:01 PM

@NYPost_Brazille: For the St. John's fans freaking out about team's unimpressive wins, Kentucky is struggling with Eastern Michigan

Give me Kentucky's roster, and I'd calm down in a heartbeat. 

No you wouldn't.  That is a copout.  In fact just the obvious most of the whiners would be whining even louder.

Unlike you, Fordham, I can't speak for what others might think, but me, I am 100% certain that I would feel much more confident about our prospects for the season if we had Kentucky's roster and played a few piss-poor games against inferior teams.   If you want to continue to argue what's really in my head, have at it. 

So let me get this straight.  We have no guys who can penetrate and pass.  We have no players who can play back to the basket.  And we have no players who can shoot.

But we have shot blockers.

Quote from: fordham96 on November 27, 2013, 09:49:51 PM

So let me get this straight.  We have no guys who can penetrate and pass.  We have no players who can play back to the basket.  And we have no players who can shoot.

But we have shot blockers.

Too bad shots blocked doesn't count on the scoreboard.

Quote from: desco80 on November 27, 2013, 10:29:31 AM

Quote from: shamsman2 on November 26, 2013, 09:15:09 PM

Quote from: paultzman on November 26, 2013, 09:10:45 PM

Jordan had 8 points, four assists and two steals.  Give him the ball Lav.

I agree, Branch brings very little upside. I wonder do the coaches tell the PGs not to penetrate and dish?

I vehemently disagree.   He makes some bad decisions with the ball - but I can live with that because the ball moves better with him in the lineup than at any other point in the game.     Branch and Jordan also probe the zone, no one else even attempts to do it.   
Two of the many things I'd like to see this weekend are  Branch getting more PT, and Dom being told to be more aggressive when he gets the ball. 

Couldnt agree with you more desco. Branch is the only player to ever use ball fakes and that has any chance of getting anywhere off the dribble. All of our other guards need to be in a triple threat position to have any chance to get by their man.

Agree with you both and I just can't believe posters could say that about Branch.  I'm convinced at least half this board has no clue about basketball.  Branch is oozing with skill.  His vision is probably the best on the team.  He has a nice handle, he excels in a fast-paced game, but he is also our best option for moving the ball around in the half court. 

The thing that gets me so frustrated with him is his lack of aggressiveness when it comes to penetration.  He's a big kid with good coordination, a nice jump stop, and he knows how to seek out contact and get a shot up after.  Why the hell doesn't he try to get in the lane more often?  Sampson and Sanchez are fare more aggressive trying to penetrate and that is usually ill-advised on their part.  Branch has already had a ton of guys drop his passes early on, and he is good for 1-2 lazy passes a game. 

This team needs to live in the lane.  I think he breaks out against Penn State to the tune of about 15 and 4-5 assists.  We are  a different team if he can consistently get it together.