Lasalle 11/26

I respect that you didnt care for him but he was not as bad as you say he was. He was a productive player that year and helped us get to the tournament. He did lay an egg at the end of the year in conference play and the tournament but he was still solid.  You keep saying look how he played against real teams and I provided evidence that he had good games against real teams. Isn't stats what this game is based off of?

Give me a senior guard, a starter at St.John’s, who was worse than Heron?

It should be easy.

Give me a senior guard, a starter at St.John’s, who was worse than Heron?

It should be easy.

I would generally never come to the defense of Heron, I also hated his game, but Eugene Lawrence was a 4 year starter.

I totally thought Heron would be better than he was no doubt. But do you hate clark as much as heron? He shit the bed too

Clark was terrible, too. No doubt. Softest big man in the BE. It wasn’t a tough group of kids. Coach set them up to fail before the seasons started with his transfer U garbage. They were always undermanned, and that can be ok if you have a squad like Jarvis did, but we had a team of chuckers.

Heron is a better version of Max Hooper. That’s how he should have been used.

In fairness to Clark & Heron, all too often they had to play out of position against bigger opponents due to roster dysfunction

I would generally never come to the defense of Heron, I also hated his game, but Eugene Lawrence was a 4 year starter.

Ahh Geno. True, he was worse.

Clark was terrible, too. No doubt. Softest big man in the BE. It wasn’t a tough group of kids. Coach set them up to fail before the seasons started with his transfer U garbage. They were always undermanned, and that can be ok if you have a squad like Jarvis did, but we had a team of chuckers.

Heron is a better version of Max Hooper. That’s how he should have been used.

I totally agree with most of this and as RedstormNC stated I think a lot of these guys played out of position. On a normal team Clark would not be considered a big man at all. They really were a bunch of Chuckers.

Are you talking about seniors that started all 4 years or just seniors who started for St. Johns? We have had way worse starters than Heron come on. I understand you don't like the guy and seem to have a deep hatred toward him because he wasn't clutch but he was better than a lot of guys weve had in the past 20 years in this program lets be real here. He choked at the end of the tournament year but still was a decent player.

I totally agree with most of this and as RedstormNC stated I think a lot of these guys played out of position. On a normal team Clark would not be considered a big man at all. They really were a bunch of Chuckers.

Are you talking about seniors that started all 4 years or just seniors who started for St. Johns? We have had way worse starters than Heron come on. I understand you don't like the guy and seem to have a deep hatred toward him because he wasn't clutch but he was better than a lot of guys weve had in the past 20 years in this program lets be real here. He choked at the end of the tournament year but still was a decent player.

I certainly don’t hate him. I hate his game. His basketball instincts were on par with Amar Alivegovic. It’s bad luck. Can’t be taught.

I certainly don’t hate him. I hate his game. His basketball instincts were on par with Amar Alivegovic. It’s bad luck. Can’t be taught.

I think Bashir had worse instincts

Dave is still upset about losing Matt A it’s ok

If you are building a program it takes time. The right pieces are I place at the top. Mike Anderson is not a used car salesman= Lavin or a lazy prodigal son= Mullin. The team will improve through out the year and the players will be respectful and graduate. That is what it is about at a religious school.
The fan base wants glorified prima donnas with glittery stars next to their names. I’ll support a team that works hard and becomes better through dedication and hard work over pampering entitled children with gold star ratings! And half the 4 and 5 star recruits were terrible anyway that came to the storm. I’m giving it time and seeing what this team looks like at the end of the season. It will improve that I am certain of.

I think Bashir had worse instincts

His were bad, too.

If you are building a program it takes time. The right pieces are I place at the top. Mike Anderson is not a used car salesman= Lavin or a lazy prodigal son= Mullin. The team will improve through out the year and the players will be respectful and graduate. That is what it is about at a religious school.
The fan base wants glorified prima donnas with glittery stars next to their names. I’ll support a team that works hard and becomes better through dedication and hard work over pampering entitled children with gold star ratings! And half the 4 and 5 star recruits were terrible anyway that came to the storm. I’m giving it time and seeing what this team looks like at the end of the season. It will improve that I am certain of.

That’s exactly right. For every top recruit that shat the bed here, there were dozens of harder working lower ranked kids who ended up elsewhere that eventually surpassed them. Sometimes immediately.

We’ve had busts, but I think Elijah Ingram and Mustapha Heron are probably the biggest busts of all time, and if not, I’m sure someone will tell me so.

Dave is still upset about losing Matt A it’s ok

You nailed it. I'm so upset my friend got a raise, is happy, and lives closer to his wife's family. I started this website over a decade ago plotting that my friend would eventually work as a coach for the school and now my life is ruined as a result.

If you are building a program it takes time. The right pieces are I place at the top. Mike Anderson is not a used car salesman= Lavin or a lazy prodigal son= Mullin. The team will improve through out the year and the players will be respectful and graduate. That is what it is about at a religious school.
The fan base wants glorified prima donnas with glittery stars next to their names. I’ll support a team that works hard and becomes better through dedication and hard work over pampering entitled children with gold star ratings! And half the 4 and 5 star recruits were terrible anyway that came to the storm. I’m giving it time and seeing what this team looks like at the end of the season. It will improve that I am certain of.

How'd that work out for Norm Roberts? The last few classes are very comparable to his.

That’s exactly right. For every top recruit that shat the bed here, there were dozens of harder working lower ranked kids who ended up elsewhere that eventually surpassed them. Sometimes immediately.

We’ve had busts, but I think Elijah Ingram and Mustapha Heron are probably the biggest busts of all time, and if not, I’m sure someone will tell me so.

Mustapha Heron averaged 14ppg over his career here he wasn't a bust. Did he have one of the all-time worst NCAA tourney games? Yes he did.

How'd that work out for Norm Roberts? The last few classes are very comparable to his.

Cedric Jackson. Tyshawn Edmonton. Quincy Roberts. Justin Brownlee. Sean Evans. Dwight Hardy. Malik Boothe.

If we have a coach that can develop his players, we will not have to pray for a recruiting class to save us every season. St.John’s can’t live like that. We’ve tried for twenty years. These kids don’t want to come here. We chase them anyway and we lose our opportunities with a 4 year man child in Posh Alexander.

Mustapha Heron averaged 14ppg over his career here he wasn't a bust. Did he have one of the all-time worst NCAA tourney games? Yes he did.

You make it sound like he was otherwise good outside of one terrible game.

Cedric Jackson. Tyshawn Edmonton. Quincy Roberts. Justin Brownlee. Sean Evans. Dwight Hardy. Malik Boothe.

If we have a coach that can develop his players, we will not have to pray for a recruiting class to save us every season. St.John’s can’t live like that. We’ve tried for twenty years. These kids don’t want to come here. We chase them anyway and we lose our opportunities with a 4 year man child in Posh Alexander.

You just listed a bunch from random classes

1st Year- https://247sports.com/college/saint-johns/Season/2004-Basketball/Commits/

2nd Year- https://247sports.com/college/saint-johns/Season/2005-Basketball/Commits/

3rd Year- https://247sports.com/college/saint-johns/Season/2006-Basketball/Commits/

4th Year- https://247sports.com/college/saint-johns/Season/2007-Basketball/Commits/

5th Year- https://247sports.com/college/saint-johns/Season/2008-Basketball/Commits/

6th Year- https://247sports.com/college/saint-johns/Season/2009-Basketball/Commits/


One might be able to make a case that Robert's classes were better. He took a few more risks (some guys didn't pan out) but also took some guys talent wise we shouldn't have which set us back. There are guys comparable say like a guy like Larry Wright who you thought you could coach up and develop. Aaron Spears a big boy similar to bigs we've landed. It's deja vu.

It took to year to year 4 to get a class we felt really good about then year 5 it took a turn back. Now all the pro Mike Anderson guys will say, "well Anderson is a much better coach." You would be correct but my stance is that simply isn't enough to make up the gap. So we'll be an 18-20 win team annually and be in the NIT similar to Virginia Tech under Seth Greenberg who had 170-123 record with winning seasons in 7 of 9 years. If you're cool with that then that's fine but I'm simply not.

You just listed a bunch from random classes

1st Year- https://247sports.com/college/saint-johns/Season/2004-Basketball/Commits/

2nd Year- https://247sports.com/college/saint-johns/Season/2005-Basketball/Commits/

3rd Year- https://247sports.com/college/saint-johns/Season/2006-Basketball/Commits/

4th Year- https://247sports.com/college/saint-johns/Season/2007-Basketball/Commits/

5th Year- https://247sports.com/college/saint-johns/Season/2008-Basketball/Commits/

6th Year- https://247sports.com/college/saint-johns/Season/2009-Basketball/Commits/


One might be able to make a case that Robert's classes were better. He took a few more risks (some guys didn't pan out) but also took some guys talent wise we shouldn't have which set us back. There are guys comparable say like a guy like Larry Wright who you thought you could coach up and develop. Aaron Spears a big boy similar to bigs we've landed. It's deja vu.

It took to year to year 4 to get a class we felt really good about then year 5 it took a turn back. Now all the pro Mike Anderson guys will say, "well Anderson is a much better coach." You would be correct but my stance is that simply isn't enough to make up the gap. So we'll be an 18-20 win team annually and be in the NIT similar to Virginia Tech under Seth Greenberg who had 170-123 record with winning seasons in 7 of 9 years. If you're cool with that then that's fine but I'm simply not.

Seth made one tournament. Let’s see what happens with this approach. We’ve tried the others.

Comparisons to Norm Roberts is silly. How many of Coach Anderson’s recruit can’t play defense? How many of them can’t move their feet? How many of them aren’t BE players? Maybe McGriff, and we’ve seen him play for 9 minutes.

Were Roberts classes better? Maybe. That’s the point. You need to develop players at our level. We aren’t Kentucky. That one class Lavin brought in wasn’t an annual occurrence.

Look at Champagnie. He started off well, then struggled early in BE play. Coach benched him, but that’s where the story is different than it would have been with Norm. Champagnie worked his way back into the starting line up, and played like an All BE player down the stretch. That’s player development. We haven’t seen it in a long time.

Roberts couldn’t coach. But he recruited our best team since Jarvis. Once they got coached that is.