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Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall

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KAHNIGHT

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #160 on: September 16, 2011, 05:49:43 PM »
Quote from: Choz4Life on September 16, 2011, 04:33:10 PM
Quote from: pmg911 on September 16, 2011, 04:04:25 PM
Maybe one day America's minor-league basketball system wont have anytin to do wit institutions of higher learnin.

And then you will have even fewer young people today without opportunities to go to college and get a free education

+1

Ricky Rubio Professional at 14 , but honestly that would flip the american economy upside down and the 10% of the affluent americans who run this country would never allow that to happen.

And then you will have more young people being justly compensated for their talents like y'all free market advocates stress.

Cartman slave...I mean, student athlete owner

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ras

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #161 on: September 16, 2011, 05:57:02 PM »
Quote from: STJFAN on September 16, 2011, 03:03:59 PM
Quote from: ras on September 16, 2011, 02:32:43 PM
I dont understand how that school in Phily could give all A"s out to all three students who had academic problems. No wonder a red flag was waived. .I wonder what would have happened if they all got C"S.

Perhaps they earned it. But in all seriousness, unless the NCAA can show cause that these grades were not earned or that there were some types of wrong doing, how can they not recognize the grades? It is baffling to me. If this is an accredited school, the NCAA has a lot of balls to arbitrarily not accept the grades these kids earned, while accepting the classes/grades other players received, without showing cause. The top conferences just need to break away from the NCAA.   
I was thinking the same thing. What criterion does the NCAA use to differentiate one school from another?
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NYMase

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #162 on: September 16, 2011, 06:27:24 PM »
Quote from: Marillac on September 16, 2011, 04:48:30 PM
These kids are Johnnies. Let's show them support on here and social media. If I am a teenager and I read the stuff some of you are writing about these kids, I'd think about going elsewhere.  Let's get the young men on campus and use it going forward.

Amen!  Well said
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Foad

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #163 on: September 16, 2011, 06:29:24 PM »
Quote from: bball purist on September 16, 2011, 05:48:23 PM
Then your analysis begs the question: Why did Walter Berry go back to school to complete his degree? In addition, did you see him beaming in graduation photos? Priceless. I was touched by the photos and discussion on this board.

According to your take, Walter was wasting his time. 

Well no. What I said was that Pelle could go back and get his degree if he wanted to, when he wanted to. So according to my take Berry was free to go back to college, and if he did and it gave him pleasure, what business is it of mine? I was addressing those who are coerced into attending college, not those who choose to go to college. Allowing Pelle to play in the NBA wouldn't prevent anyone else from accepting a scholarship or from attending university. It just infringes on his personal liberty.

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While I appreciate you speaking on the value of a college degree of questionable content for today's athletes, I would not be so quick to paint it with a such a broad stroke of your brush.  There's enough of a percentage of student athletes in basketball and football (I'm guessing those are your two hot button sports) that make use of their degree after their playing days are over.  While cases that you discussed are certainly there, there are many cases of accomplishment after obtaining a college degree.

I didn't say that a degree led to a lack of accomplishment, I said that accomplishment does not require a degree. The idea that everyone needs to college is preposterous because most people are boneheads and most college educations are worthless. Higher education is a scam that would make Bernie Madoff blush.
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Gumby

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #164 on: September 16, 2011, 06:34:45 PM »
It would seem that Rise College, or whatever its name is, was not an accredited school, according to our friends at the NCAA.

What bothers the heck out of me is the selection of this school in the first place.

St. John's knew that several of their students needed some type of additional academic work during the summer.  No problem so far, it happens!  So they had these three incoming freshmen from various parts of the country attend this particular school in Philadelphia.  Our incoming freshmen apparently did well, academically.  Yet the NCAA, apparently, will not accept their grades.

So let the NCAA slide for a moment. 

St. John's went out of its way to select this specific school.  Why?  How could you pick a school in another city that was not accredited or its courses were not accredited.  Forget the grades the students received, it is the school that seems to be the problem.

I have taught college student athletes in situations where they had to make up a few courses to qualify to play their sport.  They came to our college from another college to take some courses.  We seem to have the approval to teach these students and courses.  And yes, it is difficult to get a "C" in such courses, especially with fewer students.

Apparently, there was no due diligence done with the school in Philly in regards to making the NCAA grade.  That to me is a disappointing mystery.

It has taken some of the wind out of our sails.

 
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gman

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #165 on: September 16, 2011, 06:40:30 PM »
Rise isn't a school is it?  Isn't it a basketball program and helps place kids in local schools. 
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gman

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #166 on: September 16, 2011, 06:59:13 PM »
I'm not upset with the kids for not qualifying.  I'm upset at the staff for letting this happen.  SJU79 said one kid was way off.  We have been hearing concerns about Pelle and Sampson for a long time.  The staff needed another big man in this class in case one or two of them didn't qualify. 
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Moose

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #167 on: September 16, 2011, 07:02:39 PM »
Quote from: Gumby on September 16, 2011, 06:34:45 PM
It would seem that Rise College, or whatever its name is, was not an accredited school, according to our friends at the NCAA.

What bothers the heck out of me is the selection of this school in the first place.

St. John's knew that several of their students needed some type of additional academic work during the summer.  No problem so far, it happens!  So they had these three incoming freshmen from various parts of the country attend this particular school in Philadelphia.  Our incoming freshmen apparently did well, academically.  Yet the NCAA, apparently, will not accept their grades.

So let the NCAA slide for a moment. 

St. John's went out of its way to select this specific school.  Why?  How could you pick a school in another city that was not accredited or its courses were not accredited.  Forget the grades the students received, it is the school that seems to be the problem.

I have taught college student athletes in situations where they had to make up a few courses to qualify to play their sport.  They came to our college from another college to take some courses.  We seem to have the approval to teach these students and courses.  And yes, it is difficult to get a "C" in such courses, especially with fewer students.

Apparently, there was no due diligence done with the school in Philly in regards to making the NCAA grade.  That to me is a disappointing mystery.

It has taken some of the wind out of our sails.

 

Rise or Northeastern whatever is NCAA accredited.  The NCAA is just having issues with the classes or the grades or something or another.
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bball purist

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #168 on: September 16, 2011, 07:05:01 PM »
Quote from: Foad on September 16, 2011, 06:29:24 PM
Quote from: bball purist on September 16, 2011, 05:48:23 PM
Then your analysis begs the question: Why did Walter Berry go back to school to complete his degree? In addition, did you see him beaming in graduation photos? Priceless. I was touched by the photos and discussion on this board.

According to your take, Walter was wasting his time. 

Well no. What I said was that Pelle could go back and get his degree if he wanted to, when he wanted to. So according to my take Berry was free to go back to college, and if he did and it gave him pleasure, what business is it of mine? I was addressing those who are coerced into attending college, not those who choose to go to college. Allowing Pelle to play in the NBA wouldn't prevent anyone else from accepting a scholarship or from attending university. It just infringes on his personal liberty.

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While I appreciate you speaking on the value of a college degree of questionable content for today's athletes, I would not be so quick to paint it with a such a broad stroke of your brush.  There's enough of a percentage of student athletes in basketball and football (I'm guessing those are your two hot button sports) that make use of their degree after their playing days are over.  While cases that you discussed are certainly there, there are many cases of accomplishment after obtaining a college degree.

I didn't say that a degree led to a lack of accomplishment, I said that accomplishment does not require a degree. The idea that everyone needs to college is preposterous because most people are boneheads and most college educations are worthless. Higher education is a scam that would make Bernie Madoff blush.
Got it - I didn't absorb the point of requiring the year of waiting/college/Europe as a means to an end of going pro w/ NBA requirements. 

On the 2nd point - I will side with you too as the people who were boneheads entering college, while hopefully making the most of school, may be the more challenged minds coming out of college.  However, there are a lot of sharp minds that do not/could not go to college who remain sharp.  And Madoff probably wishes he was in on that action instead of his chosen path.
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Gumby

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #169 on: September 16, 2011, 07:37:47 PM »
"Rise or Northeastern whatever is NCAA accredited.  The NCAA is just having issues with the classes or the grades or something or another." 

Thanks, Moose!

Then that is even a bigger mystery.  Accrediting a school tends to mean their courses are accredited, after all, the accredition pertains  to the program (or curriculum) and not the building itself.

We all know schools can have some wacky courses, but if you are at an accredited school, so are the courses.

Challenging grades?  How can the students be blamed for that?  I have seen administrations come down on teachers for giving out grades that tend to be higher than the norm over a period of time.  However, that is on the teachers, not the students!

I would think that the courses, our guys took, did not fulfill whatever requirements the NCAA has for H.S. students.  However, that should have been something we should have checked before hand.

While I feel badly for Coach Lavin and the rest of us, it is the kids that I am most concerned with.  I am not sure what their futures hold, but I would like to see two things happen- qualify to attend St. John's  and attend St. John's.  They all seem like great kids.
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realfan

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #170 on: September 16, 2011, 08:09:09 PM »
Quote from: dR3w on September 16, 2011, 02:20:25 PM
Quote from: Redstormy80 on September 16, 2011, 01:20:35 PM
Quote from: bball purist on September 16, 2011, 11:03:31 AM
Here's a funny quote by a BB poster to lighten things up a bit:

"Coach Lavin actually had the players take their own tests?  nice person"

     ~ Coach Calipari

Seriously, this is me being bitter but how is it possible Kentucky's monster classes never have this problem but we do?

Just give it some time ... Coach C has left a long trail of garbage behind him (allegedly).  A leopard can't change its stripes :)

You mean spots?? :laugh:
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Celtics11

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #171 on: September 16, 2011, 09:32:01 PM »
Quote from: Choz4Life on September 16, 2011, 04:33:10 PM
Quote from: pmg911 on September 16, 2011, 04:04:25 PM
Maybe one day America's minor-league basketball system wont have anytin to do wit institutions of higher learnin.

And then you will have even fewer young people today without opportunities to go to college and get a free education

And then you will have more young people being justly compensated for their talents like y'all free market advocates stress.

Cartman slave...I mean, student athlete owner
You think D league money is worth more than a college education? Why don't we just make every kid who ever picked up a basketball a millionaire? Would that finally make you happy?
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qcredman

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #172 on: September 16, 2011, 10:03:56 PM »
It has been claimed that each of the three students referred to in the title of this thread took three classes and each received an A in all of the classes they took. If that is true then we have 9 classes (presumably 27 credits) in which students whose eligibility was in question received the best possible grade available. Regardless of whether or not this institution is accredited by the NCAA this seems to be the type of situation that raises the eyebrows of NCAA officials monitoring and deciding upon these questions.

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96 Schermerhorn Street

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #173 on: September 16, 2011, 10:11:50 PM »
On and on we continue concerning grades.The NCAA has core requirements  regarding completing so many year of English so many year of History etc, etc, etc. Questions arise wither a course qualifies as a  core requirement.Does a high school class in Journalism count toward the English requirement Does a course in shop math  qualify as meeting a math requirement. These question can apply to any course taken in any of the years the student was in high school. As SJU has stated they will continue to cooperate with the NCAA and sees the possibility of qualifying the students for the second semester I  suspect the questions concern qualification concerns core requirement  particularly a each of the three has transfered at least once which open the possibility of a duplication of material result in the questioning a course offered for core requirements
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realfan

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #174 on: September 16, 2011, 10:24:07 PM »
Quote from: Choz4Life on September 16, 2011, 04:33:10 PM
Quote from: pmg911 on September 16, 2011, 04:04:25 PM
Maybe one day America's minor-league basketball system wont have anytin to do wit institutions of higher learnin.

And then you will have even fewer young people today without opportunities to go to college and get a free education

And then you will have more young people being justly compensated for their talents like y'all free market advocates stress.

Cartman slave...I mean, student athlete owner

Slave??????   Wow, now thats a new one.  If you call getting a free education at a high tuition school like St. John's being a slave then you must be smoking the funny stuff.  My daughter, who was a REAL STUDENT is still paying off her college loan.  I am sure she would have preferred to have been a so called slave.  Your post is way out of line pal.
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Lapchick1

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #175 on: September 17, 2011, 01:38:24 AM »
If I'm Lavin and his staff I start combing the JUCO ranks ASAP recruiting JUCO recruits that can immediately fill in WHO CAN QUALIFY just in case we lose Sampson, Garrett and Pelle or two or one of them for next years 2012 class.  There will now be (3) more potential scholarships available to go along with Woods, Gathers and possibly Anderson.  As far as this year on the BB-court for St. John's we could be in bigtime trouble with as many as (3) less players playing, and it's too late to do anything about that now.  This is about as bad news as we could have possibly gotten.  If (1) recruit didn't qualify it would have hurt but all (3), that's a huge blow and nothing short of that.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2011, 01:43:33 AM by Lapchick1 »
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crgreen

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #176 on: September 17, 2011, 04:02:58 AM »
Quote from: realfan on September 16, 2011, 10:24:07 PM
Quote from: Choz4Life on September 16, 2011, 04:33:10 PM
Quote from: pmg911 on September 16, 2011, 04:04:25 PM
Maybe one day America's minor-league basketball system wont have anytin to do wit institutions of higher learnin.

And then you will have even fewer young people today without opportunities to go to college and get a free education

And then you will have more young people being justly compensated for their talents like y'all free market advocates stress.

Cartman slave...I mean, student athlete owner

Slave??????   Wow, now thats a new one.  If you call getting a free education at a high tuition school like St. John's being a slave then you must be smoking the funny stuff.  My daughter, who was a REAL STUDENT is still paying off her college loan.  I am sure she would have preferred to have been a so called slave.  Your post is way out of line pal.

I'm sure your daughter worked her way thru college - in addition to attending class.  And was paid for that work.    What if she'd had to work 60 hours a week at that job (in ADDITION  to her schoolwork as these kids are expected to) - year round (not just while school was in session) at something that earned the masters (school and NCAA) Millions of dollars, FOR WHICH SHE WASN'T PAID?   I'm betting if your daughter was say a business major, she was even free to take a job offered by some business taking advantage of her business acumen and education and getting paid for it.   While if these kids did something similar, they'd be banned from participating in  their area of expertise, likely even removed from the school.

I'm sorry if you feel cheated because your daughter had to pay and didn't get a full scholarship (by the way, please don't take offense, but if your daugher was one of the top 60 high school students in HER area of study IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, as these three kids are, and didn't obtain a full scholarship,  that would be on YOU - because full rides for that kind kind of top percentile prosect in EVERY field of study ARE availab.e   

Sorry, but I also resent that "Real Student" reference.  You mean unlike Sports or Music or theater majors (which I was)?  These are accredited fields of study, offered by literally thousands of colleges.   Subjects the majority of college students ("real students") WOULD FAIL MISERABLY AT.   I'm sorry to use your daughter as part of this response, but you brought her into it.  Tho obvioulsy I know nothing about her, the stats would say, these 3 kids would have a far better chance of succeeding in HER major, than she would have trying to pursue THEIRS.   

This issue is NOT cut and dried, and it is certainly NOT a "way out of line" subject for discussion.
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SJUhoopNUT

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #177 on: September 17, 2011, 07:45:58 AM »
The day after being informed by the NCAA that three of their elite recruits were declared academically ineligible to enroll at St. John’s, coach Steve Lavin and his staff were working feverishly with the players’ families and advisors to find a way to keep the trio in the fold.

Darrow Garrett, the father of forward Amir Garrett, vowed to The Post that his son would be in a St. John’s jersey for the second semester.

Don Anderson, the advisor to forward JaKarr Sampson, said his player’s heart remains with St. John’s and emphasized Sampson had not de-committed.

Norvel Pelle Sr., Norvel Pelle’s father, was the least optimistic, but said he hoped his son would be a Johnnie. Pelle, the 6-foot-10 post player, is the highest rated recruit at No. 23, according to Rivals.com.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/riding_out_the_storm_ineligible_vdAH6HXzJz88cIhpOAszmI#ixzz1YD2l2dZg
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SJUhoopNUT

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #178 on: September 17, 2011, 07:52:05 AM »
Ceilia Goldberg, the prep school’s director, confirmed that the players each took three summer classes there but said the N.C.A.A. had not notified the school why the students’ credits were not accepted. She said the school had had dealings with the N.C.A.A. before and never encountered this problem.

“Their parents contacted me yesterday, upset,” Goldberg said Friday in a telephone interview. “They said the N.C.A.A. is questioning why they received A’s. They’re making it seem like they’re not smart enough to do well.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/17/sports/ncaabasketball/3-st-johns-basketball-recruits-are-ruled-ineligible.html?_r=1&ref=sports
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Choz4Life

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Re: Pelle, Sampson, Garrett Ruled Ineligible for Fall
« Reply #179 on: September 17, 2011, 08:36:13 AM »
Quote from: Celtics11 on September 16, 2011, 09:32:01 PM

You think D league money is worth more than a college education? Why don't we just make every kid who ever picked up a basketball a millionaire? Would that finally make you happy?

CBS will pay the NCAA $11 billion over 14 year to just broadcast the tourney alone.

That sound like D-league money to you?
 
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