Frontcourt vs. Backcourt

Carmine, when you say this do you actually believe that he is a good passer? He is not a good passer, actually let me change that he is an abysmal passer.

Yes, I do.  He had 97 assists ( team leading ) his freshman year and 85 assists ( 2nd place ) his sophomore year with much worse offenses than this years model.  Is there any clearer evidence than that?  It's hard to believe that the passing prowess he displayed in two of his three seasons has somehow disappeared for good.  I am as perplexed as all of you are by the drop in this his junior year.

I also believe that looking at assist numbers alone without analyzing it's sister stat of turnovers is inappropriate.  Rysheed is fun to watch and pretty to look at but I'm sure we'ld all agree that his team leading 59 assists get tempered by his team leading 40 turnovers.  Hey,  he's a freshmen and improving and I want to ride him as much as you guys.
 

I admire your willingness to defend but he is at best the fourth guard on our team.

For much of this season he's been our second best guard.  He's currently our third best guard while maintaining the breakout ability to be our best guard on any given night if given the minutes.

The one play you mentioned that Raftery pointed out is a perfect illustration of PG4's shortcomings. He loses his handle at the top of the key, Marquette player goes for the ball and misses, Phil spins away and recovers. He has Dlo on the wing, hot as a firecracker, feet set, begging for the ball. Phil never even saw him. They actually replayed it in slow mo and Raf said something like "Not out of selfishness...just lack of vision or feel or whatever." That should be Phil's basketball epitaph.

Yes,  I also agree that looking at one play in a season is more than enough evidence to pass final judgment and even write an epitaph of a young man's career.  (wink, wink)

Quote from: tnice on February 03, 2014, 01:03:47 PM

The one play you mentioned that Raftery pointed out is a perfect illustration of PG4's shortcomings. He loses his handle at the top of the key, Marquette player goes for the ball and misses, Phil spins away and recovers. He has Dlo on the wing, hot as a firecracker, feet set, begging for the ball. Phil never even saw him. They actually replayed it in slow mo and Raf said something like "Not out of selfishness...just lack of vision or feel or whatever." That should be Phil's basketball epitaph.

Fittingly the telestrator broke during Rafferty's demonstration. It qualified as meta-analysis, if not good television.

Even you should know that speaking ill of the recently deceased is in poor taste. 

I know you don't care,  but your formerly very high approval rating with me has taken a larger hit than Obama's following the Affordable Care Act web site rollout due to your distasteful and inappropriate comments regarding Pete Seeger. 

I currently have you lumped in with the low class Richard Sherman on the ever revolving CA sh*tlist.

P.S.  I can hardly wait for your venomous attack of Phillip Seymour Hoffman.

Quote from: tnice on February 03, 2014, 01:03:47 PM

The one play you mentioned that Raftery pointed out is a perfect illustration of PG4's shortcomings. He loses his handle at the top of the key, Marquette player goes for the ball and misses, Phil spins away and recovers. He has Dlo on the wing, hot as a firecracker, feet set, begging for the ball. Phil never even saw him. They actually replayed it in slow mo and Raf said something like "Not out of selfishness...just lack of vision or feel or whatever." That should be Phil's basketball epitaph.

Yes,  I also agree that looking at one play in a season is more than enough evidence to pass final judgment and even write an epitaph of a young man's career.  (wink, wink)

Clearly ( to everyone but you) what I was trying to say was that play was that the play- one in which Phil does not turn the ball over, much to your delight, but also misses an opportunity to pass the ball to a teammate in scoring position and waits until he is no longer in scoring position to pass him the ball- is more than one play in a season. Its illustrative of many plays over many seasons, which is the source of much of the negativity toward this otherwise average player. And considering he's almost 3/4 of his way through his career at SJU and has not shown any inclination to improve in this particular area, I think its more than fair to assume this will not magically change in his final season-plus, hence my willingness to write his basketball epitaph before his career has concluded. (wink, wink).

Sheed would have a lot more assists if we were better at making layups and hitting open shots.

  I can hardly wait for your venomous attack of Phillip Seymour Hoffman.

I can hardly wait for you to learn how to spell his name correctly.

 +1 to Carmine for the use of Caldwell Jones.

Quote from: tnice on February 03, 2014, 01:03:47 PM

The one play you mentioned that Raftery pointed out is a perfect illustration of PG4's shortcomings. He loses his handle at the top of the key, Marquette player goes for the ball and misses, Phil spins away and recovers. He has Dlo on the wing, hot as a firecracker, feet set, begging for the ball. Phil never even saw him. They actually replayed it in slow mo and Raf said something like "Not out of selfishness...just lack of vision or feel or whatever." That should be Phil's basketball epitaph.

Fittingly the telestrator broke during Rafferty's demonstration. It qualified as meta-analysis, if not good television.

You miss the point about Bruce. Lyrically up until he became a zillinare he wrote relateable stuff. Not so much to myself in fact but in general. Even after when he stopped writing songs about growing up and teen angst , his songs told a cool story and the energy he put out there was the draw. Bruce gave you your money's worth every time you saw him play!

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 03, 2014, 12:40:48 PM

Carmine, when you say this do you actually believe that he is a good passer? He is not a good passer, actually let me change that he is an abysmal passer.

Yes, I do.  He had 97 assists ( team leading ) his freshman year and 85 assists ( 2nd place ) his sophomore year with much worse offenses than this years model.  Is there any clearer evidence than that?  It's hard to believe that the passing prowess he displayed in two of his three seasons has somehow disappeared for good.  I am as perplexed as all of you are by the drop in this his junior year.

I also believe that looking at assist numbers alone without analyzing it's sister stat of turnovers is inappropriate.  Rysheed is fun to watch and pretty to look at but I'm sure we'ld all agree that his team leading 59 assists get tempered by his team leading 40 turnovers.  Hey,  he's a freshmen and improving and I want to ride him as much as you guys.
 

Quote

I admire your willingness to defend but he is at best the fourth guard on our team.

For much of this season he's been our second best guard.  He's currently our third best guard while maintaining the breakout ability to be our best guard on any given night if given the minutes.

Yes looking at assist numbers alone can be a mistake, your first paragraph being a perfect example

And he may be our second best scoring guard but that dose not make him the second best guard. Not second best rebounder, not second best passer, not second best defender, not second best ft shooter, not second best play maker.

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 03, 2014, 12:21:43 PM

Quote from: we are sju on February 03, 2014, 11:17:06 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 02, 2014, 06:19:38 PM

Quote from: we are sju on January 31, 2014, 09:08:26 AM

Greene is averaging 8.1 pts

Your savior is averaging 7.8 pts in almost the same amount of minutes.

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1.2 assists-yes 1.2 assists. Got that 1.2 assists.

Your favorite eye roller is averaging 1.6 assists-yes 1.6 assists.  Got that 1.6 assists in way more minutes.

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Now throw in his 43% shooting a career high but still not good, 37% 3 point shooting again a career high, and we know where this % will be at the end of the year

That 43% you call still not good is better than all guards but the Aggie.  His 3 point percentage is the highest on the team.  Much, much higher than Rysheed and the Aggie.  And no, we don't know where it will be by year end.   

P.S.  Have I mentioned that he's averaging a microscopic .3 turnovers -yes .3 turnovers. Got that .3 turnovers.  His assist/turnover ratio is approaching an insane, unheard of 4 to 1.   
 
 

Harrison is averaging 18 points a game and is a scoring guard. 8.3 points-less now is not a scoring guard and spent time at the point thus 1. whatever assists is an atrocious number.

In his first two seasons when he led the team in assists and finished second on the team in assists, respectively,  you attacked him for being a bad shooter.  Now that his shooting numbers are up and his assist numbers are down,  you've conveniently turned it around and attack him for not enough assists.  You are a clever rat Wasju.  Wonder what point of attack you'll use next season?

Question ( I'm sure you'll ignore ) ?  If the square is so terrible,  WHY HAS HE BEEN OUR BEST PLAYER ON MANY NIGHTS AND A KEY CONTRIBUTOR ON MANY OTHER OCCASIONS?

P.S. 7 turnovers in 502 minutes!  And he's not Caldwell Jones.

Do you actually think Greene helps the team more the Rysheed or Branch right now?

Less than Rysheed...more than the Aggie.  With the breakout potential to be our best player in any single game...as he's done in the past.

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 03, 2014, 01:35:14 PM

  I can hardly wait for your venomous attack of Phillip Seymour Hoffman.

I can hardly wait for you to learn how to spell his name correctly.

Two outta three aint bad.

Two outta three won't get us in the Tourney

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 03, 2014, 01:21:48 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on February 03, 2014, 12:40:48 PM

Carmine, when you say this do you actually believe that he is a good passer? He is not a good passer, actually let me change that he is an abysmal passer.

Yes, I do.  He had 97 assists ( team leading ) his freshman year and 85 assists ( 2nd place ) his sophomore year with much worse offenses than this years model.  Is there any clearer evidence than that?  It's hard to believe that the passing prowess he displayed in two of his three seasons has somehow disappeared for good.  I am as perplexed as all of you are by the drop in this his junior year.

I also believe that looking at assist numbers alone without analyzing it's sister stat of turnovers is inappropriate.  Rysheed is fun to watch and pretty to look at but I'm sure we'ld all agree that his team leading 59 assists get tempered by his team leading 40 turnovers.  Hey,  he's a freshmen and improving and I want to ride him as much as you guys.
 

Quote

I admire your willingness to defend but he is at best the fourth guard on our team.

For much of this season he's been our second best guard.  He's currently our third best guard while maintaining the breakout ability to be our best guard on any given night if given the minutes.

Yes looking at assist numbers alone can be a mistake, your first paragraph being a perfect example

And he may be our second best scoring guard but that dose not make him the second best guard. Not second best rebounder, not second best passer, not second best defender, not second best ft shooter, not second best play maker.

Please pay attention and at least read what I write before you go off.  The first half+ of Jordan's season was marred by horrific shooting,  foul trouble, turnovers, ineffectual defense and DNP's.  Hollywood may believe that the season starts in February,  but we all know it began in November.

Nothing but fact form the pro-Greene camp.

Between HNK putting us on the bubble and Carmine's nonsensical views about Phil Greene, I think the two of them should be put in a room somewhwere so they could discuss other realistic issues like who was a better captain, Crunch or Hook?

Crunch was slightly better

Quote from: we are sju on February 03, 2014, 01:04:47 PM

Between HNK putting us on the bubble and Carmine's nonsensical views about Phil Greene, I think the two of them should be put in a room somewhwere so they could discuss other realistic issues like who was a better captain, Crunch or Hook?

Crunch was slightly better

No love for Kangaroo?

Quote from: Redstormy80 on February 03, 2014, 03:35:31 PM

Quote from: we are sju on February 03, 2014, 01:04:47 PM

Between HNK putting us on the bubble and Carmine's nonsensical views about Phil Greene, I think the two of them should be put in a room somewhwere so they could discuss other realistic issues like who was a better captain, Crunch or Hook?

Crunch was slightly better

No love for Kangaroo?

I like Captain and Tennille personally

Between HNK putting us on the bubble and Carmine's nonsensical views about Phil Greene, I think the two of them should be put in a room somewhwere so they could discuss other realistic issues like who was a better captain, Crunch or Hook?

Let HNK be forewarned,  I'm going to come out strong for my favorite captain...Mr. Don Van Vliet