Replacement for Lavin

Quote from: Poison on November 23, 2014, 01:58:35 PM

Quote from: Tiznow on November 23, 2014, 01:05:19 PM

Quote from: Celtics11 on November 23, 2014, 01:50:33 AM

Quote from: Tiznow on November 22, 2014, 11:44:11 PM

Quote from: DFF6 on November 22, 2014, 10:56:27 PM

Phil Mushnick throwing another log on the fire

http://nypost.com/2014/11/22/why-must-steve-lavin-recruit-the-sketchiest-characters/

Why don't places like Lexington, Kentucky and Syracuse, New York have guys like Mushnick?  He would have been sent packing in any of these college towns.

Any coach coming to coach NY's only prominent college hoops program has to come here knowing that they are a target of a local press that sees right through them.  Lavin is no different from any of them.  Mushnick failed miserably in not pointing out that the same BS goes on in all these football and hoops programs.

First time you have read him? He kills everybody all the time. He is a critic it is what he does. Truth hurts? Emperor has no clothes?

It was not the first time.  Not even close.  We all love Mushnick when he blasts Francesa.  He should stick to what he does well - sports media coverage.

He should know that everyone coaching this sport at this level has things to hide.  Lavin is doing what they all do to reach the top in this sport.  He's recruiting kids that are high caliber players and very questionable students.  He was far from the only program recruiting these ones.  The kids he lost where questionable students too.  One is on Cuse and no one up there on down here will question it.  In NYC you don't get away with the BS that BSC schools hide from the public.  Are you naïve enough to think UConn, Kentucky and Cuse players are students?  You don't know that their local press is afraid to go after them on anything? 

As for this piece. it was lazy to lump together Adonis with the WCC issue as Mushnick did when he said they were "ruled" ineligible.  I would like to see more in the press on the Adonis issue.  As far as I know, we have an anonymous third party call the school and the school reports the situation to the NCAA.  The school now sits the kid while they wait for a ruling.    Is that the case?  I am not even sure since the local beat reporters have written so little about it.  Mushnick probably wrote this article after a ten minute conversation with local beat reporter who covers the team.  Where is that beat reporter on the Adonis story?

Ok. Evil Poison here...

Just like the injuries and failed recruiting and coaching attempts were all Norm's fault, Lavin's recruiting and coaching issues are his to own as well. What good is it if Lavin only has a great player for one or two seasons, if we can't win in that structure? It's certainly not one individual player's fault like Harkless and Sampson, but if you combine their departures w Norvelle Pelle, Amir Garrett, Jakarr Sampson, Orlando Sanchez, Marco Bourgault, Keith Thomas and Adonis Delarosa w inconsistent coaching and lousy in-game strategy you have a point if you are unhappy with the body of work.

I don't care why they didn't qualify. I don't care why Nurideen Lindsay quit the team after several games. I don't care why Lavin ignored the 14-15 recruiting class until it came down to several less than ideal options.

If the answer isn't he was sick, which was more than acceptable for the 11-12 season, I don't want to hear it. It's just another excuse. Mushnick is calling Lavin out fairly. He's bringing up several issues that could have been avoided. At the end of the day, it comes done to improvement and continuity. We haven't seen either yet. Just a lot of hype. As fans, the end result is what we are left with, and I'm sick of filling out brackets without our name in on them.

Lavin shouldn't be extended at this time. I can understand that hurts recruiting, but St.John's should be thinking about the program before they think about one season - which looks like it will require a miracle in terms of recruiting and kids staying to even have a chance to be competitive.

#Unfinished Business - It applies to the players, and it applies to the coach and his staff. Lavin talked to the season ticket holders about how close we were to winning some of the games we lost. Some of that is on Lavin directly. Out of a TO, he chose to have guy that we never use to inbound a ball, inbound a ball under the oopposing's basket. Why? What the hell was he thinking? Fair is fair. This year, Lavin will be judged by everyone. No more coasting.

Mushnick is not being fair by not calling out the other programs.  Norm did seem to play by the Mushnick rules and as result we never even sniffed a top 50 recruit.

Who should Mushnick be calling out considering that he's writing for a local paper, no? Hofstra had their name dragged through the mud, when it was newsworthy that it should be. So did we. Now, we are being called out for a lack of success after 3 years with basically the same players, and unachieved goals.

The team should read the article, and come out with an intense New York City man to man press that sends Minnesota into a turnover frenzy. These kids have been here for 4 years. Is this New York's Real College Team? Is the Garden REALLY OUR home? Are they going to be saying #UnfinishedBusiness at the NBDL tryouts in 2015?

We can all talk about next year, but this year we have 3 possible NBA players on the team (Harrison, Jordan, Obekpa).

Last year we had four.

Quote from: DoodyNY33 on November 23, 2014, 03:23:06 PM

We can all talk about next year, but this year we have 3 possible NBA players on the team (Harrison, Jordan, Obekpa).

Last year we had four.

I know they underachieved last year but to be fair, Sampson did make an NBA roster and Sanchez is playing in the NBDL.

IMO, we tend to make a bit too much of our kids getting to NBA. Unless you are winning,  it is fools gold in a sense. Xavier now and then sends a kid to the League, but more often than not relies on smart, skilled four year players. Also, they "dance" consistently. That would be my preference.

Quote from: Tiznow on November 23, 2014, 02:06:44 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 23, 2014, 01:58:35 PM

Quote from: Tiznow on November 23, 2014, 01:05:19 PM

Quote from: Celtics11 on November 23, 2014, 01:50:33 AM

Quote from: Tiznow on November 22, 2014, 11:44:11 PM

Quote from: DFF6 on November 22, 2014, 10:56:27 PM

Phil Mushnick throwing another log on the fire

http://nypost.com/2014/11/22/why-must-steve-lavin-recruit-the-sketchiest-characters/

Why don't places like Lexington, Kentucky and Syracuse, New York have guys like Mushnick?  He would have been sent packing in any of these college towns.

Any coach coming to coach NY's only prominent college hoops program has to come here knowing that they are a target of a local press that sees right through them.  Lavin is no different from any of them.  Mushnick failed miserably in not pointing out that the same BS goes on in all these football and hoops programs.

First time you have read him? He kills everybody all the time. He is a critic it is what he does. Truth hurts? Emperor has no clothes?

It was not the first time.  Not even close.  We all love Mushnick when he blasts Francesa.  He should stick to what he does well - sports media coverage.

He should know that everyone coaching this sport at this level has things to hide.  Lavin is doing what they all do to reach the top in this sport.  He's recruiting kids that are high caliber players and very questionable students.  He was far from the only program recruiting these ones.  The kids he lost where questionable students too.  One is on Cuse and no one up there on down here will question it.  In NYC you don't get away with the BS that BSC schools hide from the public.  Are you naïve enough to think UConn, Kentucky and Cuse players are students?  You don't know that their local press is afraid to go after them on anything? 

As for this piece. it was lazy to lump together Adonis with the WCC issue as Mushnick did when he said they were "ruled" ineligible.  I would like to see more in the press on the Adonis issue.  As far as I know, we have an anonymous third party call the school and the school reports the situation to the NCAA.  The school now sits the kid while they wait for a ruling.    Is that the case?  I am not even sure since the local beat reporters have written so little about it.  Mushnick probably wrote this article after a ten minute conversation with local beat reporter who covers the team.  Where is that beat reporter on the Adonis story?

Ok. Evil Poison here...

Just like the injuries and failed recruiting and coaching attempts were all Norm's fault, Lavin's recruiting and coaching issues are his to own as well. What good is it if Lavin only has a great player for one or two seasons, if we can't win in that structure? It's certainly not one individual player's fault like Harkless and Sampson, but if you combine their departures w Norvelle Pelle, Amir Garrett, Jakarr Sampson, Orlando Sanchez, Marco Bourgault, Keith Thomas and Adonis Delarosa w inconsistent coaching and lousy in-game strategy you have a point if you are unhappy with the body of work.

I don't care why they didn't qualify. I don't care why Nurideen Lindsay quit the team after several games. I don't care why Lavin ignored the 14-15 recruiting class until it came down to several less than ideal options.

If the answer isn't he was sick, which was more than acceptable for the 11-12 season, I don't want to hear it. It's just another excuse. Mushnick is calling Lavin out fairly. He's bringing up several issues that could have been avoided. At the end of the day, it comes done to improvement and continuity. We haven't seen either yet. Just a lot of hype. As fans, the end result is what we are left with, and I'm sick of filling out brackets without our name in on them.

Lavin shouldn't be extended at this time. I can understand that hurts recruiting, but St.John's should be thinking about the program before they think about one season - which looks like it will require a miracle in terms of recruiting and kids staying to even have a chance to be competitive.

#Unfinished Business - It applies to the players, and it applies to the coach and his staff. Lavin talked to the season ticket holders about how close we were to winning some of the games we lost. Some of that is on Lavin directly. Out of a TO, he chose to have guy that we never use to inbound a ball, inbound a ball under the oopposing's basket. Why? What the hell was he thinking? Fair is fair. This year, Lavin will be judged by everyone. No more coasting.

Mushnick is not being fair by not calling out the other programs.  Norm did seem to play by the Mushnick rules and as result we never even sniffed a top 50 recruit.

Who should Mushnick be calling out considering that he's writing for a local paper, no? Hofstra had their name dragged through the mud, when it was newsworthy that it should be. So did we. Now, we are being called out for a lack of success after 3 years with basically the same players, and unachieved goals.

The team should read the article, and come out with an intense New York City man to man press that sends Minnesota into a turnover frenzy. These kids have been here for 4 years. Is this New York's Real College Team? Is the Garden REALLY OUR home? Are they going to be saying #UnfinishedBusiness at the NBDL tryouts in 2015?

Agree with your sentiments on how the team needs to respond.

Let's keep in mind that while the johnnies has a kid with a transcript issues, Hofstra had players committing felonies, Manhattan has a coach who fabricated his resume and SHU has a kids HS coach on their payroll. 

IMO, we tend to make a bit too much of our kids getting to NBA. Unless you are winning,  it is fools gold in a sense. Xavier now and then sends a kid to the League, but more often than not relles on smart, skilled four year players. Also, they "dance" consistently. That would be my preference.

100% correct

IMO, we tend to make a bit too much of our kids getting to NBA. Unless you are winning,  it is fools gold in a sense. Xavier now and then sends a kid to the League, but more often than not relles on smart, skilled four year players. Also, they "dance" consistently. That would be my preference.

I completely agree.

Phil Mushnick throwing another log on the fire

http://nypost.com/2014/11/22/why-must-steve-lavin-recruit-the-sketchiest-characters/

This piece was awful and honestly, seems like a totally planted piece. Worst part is that his facts are off.

When it comes down to it - St. john's has had only 2 non-qualifiers during Lavin's time. - Norvell Pelle and Keith Thomas.

Outside of that - the players are graduating or on track to graduate - not much more the school can ask for in this regard.

I usually like Mushnick's honesty when covering the sports media (especially his consistent calling out Mike Francessa) business but this is a personal attack that is completely out of element.

Has he ever written about Steve Lavin before..? Has he attended a St. John's game in past 10 years..? Has he had any interaction with the SJU basketball program in the last 10 years..?

The program certainly has it problems to fix but dealing with a journalist with an obvious ax to grind should not be one of them. He should be writing about Tarik Turner or Vin Parise before ever devoting space in a column to Steve Lavin.

Sucks when you lose a little respect for someone who you actually enjoyed reading..

For what it's worth, I sent both Mushnick and the NY Post an e-mail expressing my displeasure on this blatantly personal attack. I would hope some of you do the same.

Some of that is on Lavin directly. Out of a TO, he chose to have guy that we never use to inbound a ball, inbound a ball under the oopposing's basket. Why? What the hell was he thinking?

He was thinking that we were going to get fouled on purpose.  He was thinking that a player that is good at shooting 3 pointers must also be good at shooting free throws.  It was a tragic error in judgement that might have cost us an Ncaa bid.  The absolute low point of the season until the BE tournament and Nit.

Our student support sucks.  Kudos to the few hundred that do a great job coming out to every game.  Where are the rest of them?

Providence has a hockey team that draws great student support.  They played on the same night as one of the hoops home games.  It was no problem up there.  The students at PC get out and support their teams.  SJU's students don't.

It starts with the students.  The crowd at our games is older than the crowd at my local OTB.

The students can stay home and study. This town has hundreds of thousands of basketball lovers. Thing is, if they don't get to see good hoops they figure they're wasting their time. If the powers that be can't figure out a way to supply a good product, whats the point?

Quote from: Poison on November 23, 2014, 01:58:35 PM

Some of that is on Lavin directly. Out of a TO, he chose to have guy that we never use to inbound a ball, inbound a ball under the oopposing's basket. Why? What the hell was he thinking?

He was thinking that we were going to get fouled on purpose.  He was thinking that a player that is good at shooting 3 pointers must also be good at shooting free throws.  It was a tragic error in judgement that might have cost us an Ncaa bid.  The absolute low point of the season until the BE tournament and Nit.

But PC didn't need to foul!  that's where his judgment really killed us.   

Why must Steve Lavin recruit the sketchiest characters?  -  PHIL MUSHNICK

http://nypost.com/2014/11/22/why-must-steve-lavin-recruit-the-sketchiest-characters/

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on November 24, 2014, 12:16:28 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 23, 2014, 01:58:35 PM

Some of that is on Lavin directly. Out of a TO, he chose to have guy that we never use to inbound a ball, inbound a ball under the oopposing's basket. Why? What the hell was he thinking?

He was thinking that we were going to get fouled on purpose.  He was thinking that a player that is good at shooting 3 pointers must also be good at shooting free throws.  It was a tragic error in judgement that might have cost us an Ncaa bid.  The absolute low point of the season until the BE tournament and Nit.

But PC didn't need to foul!  that's where his judgment really killed us.   

"Cotton's big defensive play came when he tied up Max Hooper under the St. John's basket with 21 seconds left in the second overtime and Providence trailing by a point."

http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400504532

He's still a nice person though.

Quote from: desco80 on November 24, 2014, 02:07:55 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on November 24, 2014, 12:16:28 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 23, 2014, 01:58:35 PM

Some of that is on Lavin directly. Out of a TO, he chose to have guy that we never use to inbound a ball, inbound a ball under the oopposing's basket. Why? What the hell was he thinking?

He was thinking that we were going to get fouled on purpose.  He was thinking that a player that is good at shooting 3 pointers must also be good at shooting free throws.  It was a tragic error in judgement that might have cost us an Ncaa bid.  The absolute low point of the season until the BE tournament and Nit.

But PC didn't need to foul!  that's where his judgment really killed us.   

"Cotton's big defensive play came when he tied up Max Hooper under the St. John's basket with 21 seconds left in the second overtime and Providence trailing by a point."

http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400504532

He's still a nice person though.

I thought I was too young for memory failure.  Shit.

Were we in the bonus?  I remember wondering why Hooper was on the floor, for reasons separate from his ball-handling skills.   

IMO, we tend to make a bit too much of our kids getting to NBA. Unless you are winning,  it is fools gold in a sense. Xavier now and then sends a kid to the League, but more often than not relies on smart, skilled four year players. Also, they "dance" consistently. That would be my preference.

Maybe SJU Basketball's  New Year's resolution will be to dance like no one is watching.  Looking at our attendance figures...it's not too far off.

Unfortunately have to revive this thread.  Too bad cause Lavin is having a great year coaching and has the kids playing great.  Unfortunately the underlining problem has not gone away, the man recruits marginal students who often have problems.  From Nuri to Jordan to this year's problems to the Sampson/Pelle class the pattern is consistent and obvious.  As mentioned in another thread, Hurley sounds right.  A local guy who should be able to recruit in the area and a guy with a national rep.

Hurley's.

Bobby Hurley is attainable, relatively inexpensive, and exactly the kind of personality that could overhaul the culture and change local hoops perception. He is the anti Lavin 

He's just like Wojo, except for us he would come with  head coaching experience and a local family pedigree. I can tell you that Marquette alumni settled for Wojo after making a real run at Tony Bennett and Shaka Smart. They seem to love Wojos energy and demeanor, which is in stark contrast to how Buzz conducted business.  

Bobby H currently makes less than Gene Keady did last season 

Bobby H currently makes less than Gene Keady did last season

If that doesn't sum it up.

Bobby Hurley is my vote. It's a real shame that these seniors have to go out like this.