Lance Stephenson - SF - Abraham Lincoln HS - Brooklyn, NY

Quote from: Dave on December 04, 2008, 12:49:06 PM

a low high major player? what exactly is a low high guy? is he shortish tallish? kind of skinny fat?

I think it means more Nebraska than Kansas, more Iowa than Michigan State, more - dare I say - St Johns than UConn.

exactly.

So he'd be a low major or a mid major. low high major is just contradictory.

So he'd be a low major or a mid major. low high major is just contradictory.

Not necessarily true.

Conferences really break down into three groups:

BCS/High Major

Mid Major

Low Major

Where you as an individual put conferences in the last two groups is very subjective but the BCS/High Major group is not, it is clearly defined.  Of course now everyone's gonna jump in the air and say how can even dare to think that Memphis, Gonzaga, Xavier, etc... are mid majors.  Well I think so because they are - programs from mid major conferences are by definition mid majors, even if every other aspect of their program and operation is as or even more major than some BCS schools.

Within the High Major's there is also a relative pecking order so each BCS conference has "low" schools who aren't expected to be able to compete on the cour and on the recruiting consistently year in and year out with the "high" schools who are expected to excel each and every year.  Such schools again could be subjective but directionally I'd say if you're thinking Nebraska, Northwestern, USF, Penn St, etc... you're off to a good start.  Folks can argue all day about who belongs in this group - Va Tech?  Iowa St?  Iowa?  - but I think a good barometer is if those who believe SJU is a recruiting powerhouse are disappointed with the BCS conference competitive suitors for a recruits services that those competitive suitors are "low, high majors".  Does that make any sense?

We're not scouting teams here. We're talking about a player.

He could be an impact player, rotational, bench, or walkon player for a low, mid, high major team. Saying low high major sounds dumb.

We're not scouting teams here. We're talking about a player.

He could be an impact player, rotational, bench, or walkon player for a low, mid, high major team. Saying low high major sounds dumb.

Who cares how it sounds, when sites or experts describe players they are talking about the types of teams that they would fit in on and attract interest in from a recruiting standpoint.  Not all high major recruits are going to be superstars at high major schools but in that expert's opinion they will be able to contribute more positives than negatives at that level.  These terms describe the schools they would best fit at not the player himself.

Quote from: Dave on December 04, 2008, 05:07:22 PM

We're not scouting teams here. We're talking about a player.

He could be an impact player, rotational, bench, or walkon player for a low, mid, high major team. Saying low high major sounds dumb.

Who cares how it sounds, when sites or experts describe players they are talking about the types of teams that they would fit in on and attract interest in from a recruiting standpoint.  Not all high major recruits are going to be superstars at high major schools but in that expert's opinion they will be able to contribute more positives than negatives at that level.  These terms describe the schools they would best fit at not the player himself.

I understand your distinction.
Tom Konchalski would grade that player as a 5/5-, generally meaning capable of being a major contributor at the mid-major level and a potential role player at the major level.

Another term often used is an elite level recruit, usually these players wind up at UCLA, Kansas, Duke, Florida, UConn, Memphis, Texas, UNC, Kentucky, etc. Every once in an odd while, a DeMarcus Cousins-type will wind up at a UAB.

Does this help our chances with Lance???

http://www.brandonjennings.net/2008/11/29/brandon-jennings-stats-2/

Some of Brandon Jenning’s statistics so far this young season:

In the Italian league, Jennings is averaging 4.9 points, 3.0 assists, and 1.3 steals in only 17.3 minutes over 7 games.

In the Euroleague, he is averaging 9.4 points, 1.4 assists, and 0.8 steals in 18.0 minutes over 5 games.

His highest scoring game was 14 points and his highest assist total was 7.

Quote from: Dave on December 04, 2008, 05:07:22 PM

We're not scouting teams here. We're talking about a player.

He could be an impact player, rotational, bench, or walkon player for a low, mid, high major team. Saying low high major sounds dumb.

Who cares how it sounds, when sites or experts describe players they are talking about the types of teams that they would fit in on and attract interest in from a recruiting standpoint.  Not all high major recruits are going to be superstars at high major schools but in that expert's opinion they will be able to contribute more positives than negatives at that level.  These terms describe the schools they would best fit at not the player himself.

This is really pointless debating. I still don't think it makes sense.

how does it not make sense? 

when people say a high major school, people naturally think of teams like uconn, ucla, north carolina, kansas, texas, florida, memphis, duke, pittsburgh, etc.

vincent council is not going to get any playing time at schools like that.  but he will be going to a BCS school, so therefore he isn't going to a mid major school, hence low high major. 

I see what people are getting at here. It kinda makes sense, the lower tier high-majors (maybe that phrasing makes more sense lol) are the BCS conference schools that have been in the lower echelon of their respective conferences in recent years.  Makes sense to me but it's a bit murky...

Does BCS really have anything to do with college basketball? Isn't that just football?

Anyways if you are ranking the kid's talent and you say he isn't a high major player but rather a mid major talent who might wind up playing(sitting bench) for a lower tiered team in a power conference(which you call high major team). I've never heard the term low high major player.

I see what people are getting at here. It kinda makes sense, the lower tier high-majors (maybe that phrasing makes more sense lol) are the BCS conference schools that have been in the lower echelon of their respective conferences in recent years.  Makes sense to me but it's a bit murky...

I think it makes perfect sense!  You are describing a borderline BCS conference basketball player.  Like someone that should play for us, Rutgers, South Florida, Penn State, Northwestern, etc. etc. etc.  It's pathetic I have to group us in this.

I understood what he meant but personally I think its Low Major, Mid Major, and High Major and it is based on the conference.  Either a player can play in that conference or he can't. 

At what point do we stop the madness?  Low Low High Major for South Florida.  Or a Mid Low High Major for Depaul.  It gets to be a bit much.

Anyway I sure hope Lance qualifies and chooses to go to college!

I understood what he meant but personally I think its Low Major, Mid Major, and High Major and it is based on the conference.  Either a player can play in that conference or he can't. 

At what point do we stop the madness?  Low Low High Major for South Florida.  Or a Mid Low High Major for Depaul.  It gets to be a bit much.

Anyway I sure hope Lance qualifies and chooses to go to college!

IMO, the more detailed the classification, the better - otherwise Hasheem Thabeet and Phil Wait would both just be considered "high major" players --- and that's unfair to BOTH players to group them like that.

So anyways....Lance Stephenson is a high major player....

So anyways....Lance Stephenson is a high major player....

Wrong.  He's a high high high major player.  Hopefully he doesn't meet Willie Shaw, or else he might become a high high high HIGH major player. 

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on December 05, 2008, 11:41:17 AM

I understood what he meant but personally I think its Low Major, Mid Major, and High Major and it is based on the conference.  Either a player can play in that conference or he can't. 

At what point do we stop the madness?  Low Low High Major for South Florida.  Or a Mid Low High Major for Depaul.  It gets to be a bit much.

Anyway I sure hope Lance qualifies and chooses to go to college!

IMO, the more detailed the classification, the better - otherwise Hasheem Thabeet and Phil Wait would both just be considered "high major" players --- and that's unfair to BOTH players to group them like that.

IMO its not meant to be a detailed description of the player's ability.  Its a generic description of the schools a player is looking at.

What if Thabeet came to St. John's and Wait went to Uconn.  Does that mean Wait is better than Thabeet because he chose Uconn?

Quote from: Tha Kid on December 05, 2008, 12:13:23 PM

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on December 05, 2008, 11:41:17 AM

I understood what he meant but personally I think its Low Major, Mid Major, and High Major and it is based on the conference.  Either a player can play in that conference or he can't. 

At what point do we stop the madness?  Low Low High Major for South Florida.  Or a Mid Low High Major for Depaul.  It gets to be a bit much.

Anyway I sure hope Lance qualifies and chooses to go to college!

IMO, the more detailed the classification, the better - otherwise Hasheem Thabeet and Phil Wait would both just be considered "high major" players --- and that's unfair to BOTH players to group them like that.

IMO its not meant to be a detailed description of the player's ability.  Its a generic description of the schools a player is looking at.

What if Thabeet came to St. John's and Wait went to Uconn.  Does that mean Wait is better than Thabeet because he chose Uconn?

Well, he'd probably end up better.   

So anyways....Lance Stephenson is a high major player....

Does Brandon Jennings need to implode for Lance to decide to go to college?

Or will Lance even get the chance to go to college(qualify)?

Quote from: Tha Kid on December 05, 2008, 12:13:23 PM

Quote from: jumpinjohnny on December 05, 2008, 11:41:17 AM

I understood what he meant but personally I think its Low Major, Mid Major, and High Major and it is based on the conference.  Either a player can play in that conference or he can't. 

At what point do we stop the madness?  Low Low High Major for South Florida.  Or a Mid Low High Major for Depaul.  It gets to be a bit much.

Anyway I sure hope Lance qualifies and chooses to go to college!

IMO, the more detailed the classification, the better - otherwise Hasheem Thabeet and Phil Wait would both just be considered "high major" players --- and that's unfair to BOTH players to group them like that.

IMO its not meant to be a detailed description of the player's ability.  Its a generic description of the schools a player is looking at.

What if Thabeet came to St. John's and Wait went to Uconn.  Does that mean Wait is better than Thabeet because he chose Uconn?

I think it's a detailed description of the schools a kid COULD go to.  Example:  If Lance goes to St. John's he's still a high high high major player b/c his talent level would have allowed him to go anywhere.  Same with thabeet.  On the other hand is Geno lawrence who would have been described a LOW high major player b/c the only "BCS" conference recruiting him was St. John's.