NC Asheville Game

  • 238 replies
  • 15612 views
Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #220 on: December 22, 2012, 05:52:07 PM »
Jamal 2 assts 4 turnovers
Phil    4 assts  1 turnovers

Jamal's shot blocked 3 times.  Twice he went up in the air caught in between shooting and passing, shot squapped embaressingly back in his face both times, fortunate not to get called for a travel and/or jump ball on both.  Yes, his two assists scored high on style points.

Not down on him at all and didn't expect more from a guy playing his first game in a year with a new team.

But those crying for more play for Jamal last night as the newly annointed point guard savior and reason we lost the game are just being ridiculous.

This is nothing more or less than the misguided "most popular player on a losing football team being the backup quarterback" mentality.

Yes, he had is errors but a comparison of PG skills and ability to get others easy shots is not even close.

Exactly!

Do you consider turnovers an indication of favorable point guard skills?  Because it's not.

The sum total of his ability to get others shots last night, weather you considered them easy or not, was two.  Are you really able to determine such absolutes after watching a player for 14 minutes?

He might turn out to be John Stockton, but I question your ability to guage that or even if he's a better point than Mr. Greenjeans based on last nights numbers and limited time alotment.

If you've been watching him in practice, saw a lot of his play with the Aggies and/or in high school, then that would make sense.

I know what a PG looks like and he passed my eye test. Doesnt mean he will play error free. Not unlike a young QB...going to make plenty of mistakes in the development process...Our current options, on the other hand, have not shown any PG skills...So, you may not have seen enough...I have..May not be Stockton but he is best we have
+1 it's really not even close.

Amen Chille!

Do you guys agree that Assists/Turnover ratio is the best statistical measure available for judging a points play?

I've heard it said that 2 to 1 is an excellent number to have. 

If so, then Phil is at least performing somewhat admirably in the role with his 41 to 19 numbers.

Geno, Maliks 1 and 2, Tarik or any other historically maligned Sju point might have done just as well as Branch's poor #s in their debut games for us and you'ld be singing their praises, perhaps you did, because: a) they're players you don't know boo about but they're recruited as 1's and b) the most popular player on a losing football team is the backup quarterback.

Hey, I hope the kid turns out better than Jackson.

goredmen

  • *****
  • 5066
Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #221 on: December 22, 2012, 05:57:47 PM »
CO also needs to use his body every once in a while when going up for a block.

Kid leads the nation in blocked shots as a freshman.  The best shot blocker we've ever had by an Ashville country mile.  And people are giving him advice on how he should block shots? 

Reading this board can at times be a fascinating study on the fickle nature of fandom.  Particularly following a perplexing defeat.

Yes, hes the best shot blocker we have ever had here but do you realize teams, especially guards like Atkinson, aren't afraid to drive right at him. Thats part of the reason why he has so many blocks. Guys know they wont end up on their arse when they drive at him. All i ask is that once a game he just knock a guy down to make him and the rest of his team think twice about driving down the middle. CO does block a ton of shots but theres plenty of layups that guys make over him too

Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #222 on: December 22, 2012, 06:00:57 PM »
Jamal 2 assts 4 turnovers
Phil    4 assts  1 turnovers

Jamal's shot blocked 3 times.  Twice he went up in the air caught in between shooting and passing, shot squapped embaressingly back in his face both times, fortunate not to get called for a travel and/or jump ball on both.  Yes, his two assists scored high on style points.

Not down on him at all and didn't expect more from a guy playing his first game in a year with a new team.

But those crying for more play for Jamal last night as the newly annointed point guard savior and reason we lost the game are just being ridiculous.

This is nothing more or less than the misguided "most popular player on a losing football team being the backup quarterback" mentality.

Yes, he had is errors but a comparison of PG skills and ability to get others easy shots is not even close.

Exactly!

Do you consider turnovers an indication of favorable point guard skills?  Because it's not.

The sum total of his ability to get others shots last night, weather you considered them easy or not, was two.  Are you really able to determine such absolutes after watching a player for 14 minutes?

He might turn out to be John Stockton, but I question your ability to guage that or even if he's a better point than Mr. Greenjeans based on last nights numbers and limited time alotment.

If you've been watching him in practice, saw a lot of his play with the Aggies and/or in high school, then that would make sense.

I know what a PG looks like and he passed my eye test. Doesnt mean he will play error free. Not unlike a young QB...going to make plenty of mistakes in the development process...Our current options, on the other hand, have not shown any PG skills...So, you may not have seen enough...I have..May not be Stockton but he is best we have
+1 it's really not even close.

Amen Chille!

Do you guys agree that Assists/Turnover ratio is the best statistical measure available for judging a points play?

I've heard it said that 2 to 1 is an excellent number to have. 

If so, then Phil is at least performing somewhat admirably in the role with his 41 to 19 numbers.

Geno, Maliks 1 and 2, Tarik or any other historically maligned Sju point might have done just as well as Branch's poor #s in their debut games for us and you'ld be singing their praises, perhaps you did, because: a) they're players you don't know boo about but they're recruited as 1's and b) the most popular player on a losing football team is the backup quarterback.

Hey, I hope the kid turns out better than Jackson.

Nope, those guys didn't pass the eye test irrespective of stats...stats can be misleading...anyone can make safe, east-west passes to someone who hits a 3 point shot...the ability to get others easy shots is what makes a point guard IMO...I respect your opinion and am a fan of PG4 but think he is a fish out of water and will thrive once he has the opportunity to be on the receiving end of a pass that leads to one of his patented tear drops...

I am not saying that Branch will be an AA...just saying he is our best option. 

Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #223 on: December 22, 2012, 06:18:16 PM »
How hard is it for the stats guys to get the stats right? I though Jamal had more than 2 assists and am certain of Atleast 3 (one handed lob to JaKarr, lead pass to Dom, layoff to Marco for 3). You could tell he has a nack for passing the rock. Was suprised/pissed off he didn't see more minutes in the second half.
*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #224 on: December 22, 2012, 06:33:26 PM »
Cant really judge this team until the end of January, until then have some patients and allow the team to get better.

Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #225 on: December 22, 2012, 06:38:19 PM »
How hard is it for the stats guys to get the stats right? I though Jamal had more than 2 assists and am certain of Atleast 3 (one handed lob to JaKarr, lead pass to Dom, layoff to Marco for 3). You could tell he has a nack for passing the rock. Was suprised/pissed off he didn't see more minutes in the second half.

There were, in particular, two passes that impressed me....

1) A left handed lob
2) A wrap around pass down low

He definitely has PG instincts and is a pass first guy

Moose

  • *****
  • 12322
Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #226 on: December 22, 2012, 06:52:34 PM »
How hard is it for the stats guys to get the stats right? I though Jamal had more than 2 assists and am certain of Atleast 3 (one handed lob to JaKarr, lead pass to Dom, layoff to Marco for 3). You could tell he has a nack for passing the rock. Was suprised/pissed off he didn't see more minutes in the second half.

The number of assists seemed off to me too
Remember who broke the Slice news

Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #227 on: December 22, 2012, 06:55:23 PM »
Cant really judge this team until the end of January, until then have some patients and allow the team to get better.
That's the problem-we have too many patients. :)

crgreen

  • *****
  • 2185
Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #228 on: December 22, 2012, 07:49:21 PM »
How hard is it for the stats guys to get the stats right? I though Jamal had more than 2 assists and am certain of Atleast 3 (one handed lob to JaKarr, lead pass to Dom, layoff to Marco for 3). You could tell he has a nack for passing the rock. Was suprised/pissed off he didn't see more minutes in the second half.

The number of assists seemed off to me too

Must be the same guy who's been counting Obekpa's blocks.  :)

Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #229 on: December 22, 2012, 08:01:48 PM »
Cant really judge this team until the end of January, until then have some patients and allow the team to get better.
That's the problem-we have too many patients. :)

Totally unrelated to any topic and yet related to all topics -- your posts crack me up. Keep 'em coming

Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #230 on: December 22, 2012, 10:17:19 PM »
Missed game due to family/holiday obligations. After hearing about the game and reading all of the posts I said i would not bother to watch it. Well i couldn't help myself and just watched it and I actually feel better about the game, not that i disagree with many of the criticisms. Just thought we played well for 30 minutes and played the last 10 like we were in a fog. One observation though-once again on a few occasions our guys slipped putting us at a disadvantage defensively and this has been happening all season. Seems to happen much less to opponents. Could it be the sneakers?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2012, 10:19:47 PM by Celtics11 »

Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #231 on: December 22, 2012, 10:47:58 PM »
Optimist: This will be our Fordham game from a few year back and we will rise from the ashes like the phoenix.

Pessimist: They is some serious deficiency that was exposed here and will doom the team fo the rest of the year.

paultz, drainin it like alway.

Realist: Somewhere in the middle. The folks playing for SJU in Fordham game season were mature, physically  strong, played decent D and experienced. We are not there yet obviously.
Parking only for NYCHA permit holders.

desco80

  • *****
  • 5072
Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #232 on: December 23, 2012, 11:17:07 AM »
One observation though-once again on a few occasions our guys slipped putting us at a disadvantage defensively and this has been happening all season. Seems to happen much less to opponents. Could it be the sneakers?

It's sad, but true.  Even the equipment manager is under-performing.

Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #233 on: December 23, 2012, 11:18:06 AM »
Jamal 2 assts 4 turnovers
Phil    4 assts  1 turnovers

Jamal's shot blocked 3 times.  Twice he went up in the air caught in between shooting and passing, shot squapped embaressingly back in his face both times, fortunate not to get called for a travel and/or jump ball on both.  Yes, his two assists scored high on style points.

Not down on him at all and didn't expect more from a guy playing his first game in a year with a new team.

But those crying for more play for Jamal last night as the newly annointed point guard savior and reason we lost the game are just being ridiculous.

This is nothing more or less than the misguided "most popular player on a losing football team being the backup quarterback" mentality.

Yes, he had is errors but a comparison of PG skills and ability to get others easy shots is not even close.

Exactly!

Do you consider turnovers an indication of favorable point guard skills?  Because it's not.

The sum total of his ability to get others shots last night, weather you considered them easy or not, was two.  Are you really able to determine such absolutes after watching a player for 14 minutes?

He might turn out to be John Stockton, but I question your ability to guage that or even if he's a better point than Mr. Greenjeans based on last nights numbers and limited time alotment.

If you've been watching him in practice, saw a lot of his play with the Aggies and/or in high school, then that would make sense.

I know what a PG looks like and he passed my eye test. Doesnt mean he will play error free. Not unlike a young QB...going to make plenty of mistakes in the development process...Our current options, on the other hand, have not shown any PG skills...So, you may not have seen enough...I have..May not be Stockton but he is best we have
+1 it's really not even close.

Amen Chille!

Do you guys agree that Assists/Turnover ratio is the best statistical measure available for judging a points play?

I've heard it said that 2 to 1 is an excellent number to have. 

If so, then Phil is at least performing somewhat admirably in the role with his 41 to 19 numbers.

Geno, Maliks 1 and 2, Tarik or any other historically maligned Sju point might have done just as well as Branch's poor #s in their debut games for us and you'ld be singing their praises, perhaps you did, because: a) they're players you don't know boo about but they're recruited as 1's and b) the most popular player on a losing football team is the backup quarterback.

Hey, I hope the kid turns out better than Jackson.

Nope, those guys didn't pass the eye test irrespective of stats...stats can be misleading...anyone can make safe, east-west passes to someone who hits a 3 point shot...the ability to get others easy shots is what makes a point guard IMO...I respect your opinion and am a fan of PG4 but think he is a fish out of water and will thrive once he has the opportunity to be on the receiving end of a pass that leads to one of his patented tear drops...

I am not saying that Branch will be an AA...just saying he is our best option.

Fair enough.

SJUFAN

  • *****
  • 2280
Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #234 on: December 23, 2012, 11:28:29 AM »
Optimist: This will be our Fordham game from a few year back and we will rise from the ashes like the phoenix.

Pessimist: They is some serious deficiency that was exposed here and will doom the team fo the rest of the year.

paultz, drainin it like alway.

Realist: Somewhere in the middle. The folks playing for SJU in Fordham game season were mature, physically  strong, played decent D and experienced. We are not there yet obviously.

Not sure if the deficiency's will be resolved this year. The previous teams were not only experienced, they were a very skilled and balanced group, something this team seriously lacks. We had JB in the post with multiple perimeter options. Although this team is athletic, are wings lack skills. Pointer and Garrett cannot be on the floor together. I think Felix has shown he deserves more time.

Tiznow

  • ****
  • 581
Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #235 on: December 23, 2012, 11:40:40 AM »


It always seems like they can NEVER stay in front of their guys. They take horrible angles and even unathletic guys get by Dom and Amir or anyone else on our team. It's frustrating, it makes me wonder how they practice defense in practice.
I said the same thing weeks and weeks ago and was taken to task by some clown who said my opinion was laughable. It was followed by many posts agreeing with our position. Identify yourself-I'm having a children's birthday party for my granddaughter and would like to hire a clown to entertain.

You can save the money and hire yourself.  This stuff is pretty funny.
So it was you!

Celtic, maybe it was.  I support the kids with the guts to try to return our program to the top of the league.  It's pretty gutless and stupid to rant about 19 years olds playing for free.  Besides, if Dom or Amir transferred there would be plenty of strong programs going after them.
Hey JIS-nowhere did I rant. Full schollie is not playing for free. No one is treating them like pro's or being overly critically about individual players, more on the coaches (oh that's right they only make millions of dollars) and  on team results. You sound like you are from the everybody gets a trophy crowd.

Posting criticism of a kids play in caps on a message board seems like a rant to me.  There are a few on this board who can't resist venting after a lousy game.  It's easy to knock a kid's defensive performance.  You see one or two mistakes and amplify them.  Amir and Dom are solid as second year players.  If you just compare their offensive stats to our recent players they prove that these kids were properly rated as prospects.

Here are the shooting stats for their second year:

DJ Kennedy - 40%
Anthony Mason - 41%
Amir Garret - 48%
Dom Pointer - 47%

An overlooked stat on this year's preseason is that Dom is second on this team is assists.  This shows that he shares the ball.  A trait that I would like a couple of other player's to attain.  Though, with Branch taking over this team I think we'll see a lot change.

I do like trophies.  I think by saying that you are assuming I am nice to kids - so I thank you for a great compliment.  I sit in section 114 at MSG.  Stop by and you will get to hear what I sound like supporting these kids who chose to play for St John's over our adversaries.

Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #236 on: December 23, 2012, 12:39:29 PM »
Cant really judge this team until the end of January, until then have some patients and allow the team to get better.
That's the problem-we have too many patients. :)

Would you rather be good in December or in February?

Moose

  • *****
  • 12322
Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #237 on: December 23, 2012, 04:13:31 PM »
One observation though-once again on a few occasions our guys slipped putting us at a disadvantage defensively and this has been happening all season. Seems to happen much less to opponents. Could it be the sneakers?

It's sad, but true.  Even the equipment manager is under-performing.

These are the sneakers the kids wanted.  If thats the reason they are slipping its on their shoulders.  They specifically wanted these.
Remember who broke the Slice news

Re: NC Asheville Game
« Reply #238 on: December 23, 2012, 10:15:24 PM »
PG4 was defending #15 very late when the game was tied.  Slipped, fell and hurt himself leaving the Johnny killer open for the huge 3 point dagger.  Phil slips and falls more than any player I've ever seen.