2013-2014 Schedule

Quote from: redstorm212 on October 08, 2013, 08:31:06 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on October 08, 2013, 08:27:50 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on October 08, 2013, 08:24:37 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 08, 2013, 07:36:48 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on October 08, 2013, 02:52:13 PM

They always play a center but we could go with Obekpa, Sampson and Sanchez or Pointer up front.  Jerami Grant has yet to show his ability to play the 3 as well.  Orlando can probably play some time at the 3 for us as he has skills to play inside and out. 

I think that they are bigger in the post for sure, but at this point I like Obekpa and Gift there.  Christmas and Coleman need to step up and show what they can do.

You like Obekpa and Gift to guard Christmas and Coleman?

Obekpa will be fine. Gift is the question mark in that scenario.

Why?  Gift had better numbers his first season than either Christmas or Coleman...

We all know Gift's numbers were very inflated that year from playing minutes he shouldn't have been getting. He looked overmatched against more talented teams.

He double-doubled vs UK so he's capable for sure.  Christmas has yet to show up.  Coleman looks like he can produce, but needed to get in better shape.  Neither guy has done much yet, that's all I'm saying, so we aren't overmatched by those guys until they prove they are a problem.  I think they had a combined 2 pts vs us last year?  SJU having Sanchez up front, with his skill set at his size should be a huge asset for us as well.

Christmas went to the Final Four. He was a role player, but he was an important one. Defense matters. Gift can't guard anyone.

Quote from: Moose on October 08, 2013, 09:52:07 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 08, 2013, 09:46:51 PM

I don't think Gift can contain any BE center, let alone a guy as strong as Christmas. He might not be the McDonald's AA they expected to be getting, but he plays defense, he rebounds and he holds his position in the paint.

Gift can't do any of those things unless he's playing much weaker competition.  I am lost at how anyone can point to Gift's "performance" against UK as proof that he is capable. That game was an absolute disgrace. We had no business being on the same court with them.

Gift started to score some points and pull down some boards when there was absolutely no doubt that the game was over. So, his offensive rebound and basket off the glass trimmed UK's lead to 65-25. What can you take away from that? In 2006, there was a thread on one of these boards about the awakening of Ricky Torres, because he scored a few baskets at MSG vs Maryland. Why did he score against them? Because they didn't care if he did.

Christmas? Strong?
You mean Coleman, right?

I didn't say skilled. I said strong, and Christmas is strong. You're not going to push him around in the paint. Gift, you barely have to guard.

Gift you barely have to guard?  His numbers were a bit better than Christmas' and Christmas has nothing on Gift in the strength department. 

Quote from: MCNPA on October 08, 2013, 08:00:07 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 08, 2013, 07:36:48 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on October 08, 2013, 02:52:13 PM

They always play a center but we could go with Obekpa, Sampson and Sanchez or Pointer up front.  Jerami Grant has yet to show his ability to play the 3 as well.  Orlando can probably play some time at the 3 for us as he has skills to play inside and out. 

I think that they are bigger in the post for sure, but at this point I like Obekpa and Gift there.  Christmas and Coleman need to step up and show what they can do.

You like Obekpa and Gift to guard Christmas and Coleman?

Why not?  What have those guys done?  Obekpa was the best shot blocker in the country last time I checked.  Cuse isn't going to play Christmas and Coleman at the same time, but we have several guys 6'8" and above.  We guarded them last year without Sanchez and Gift, and it wasn't those guys that killed us.  It was fair, Triche, MCW and Southerland.

It's very sad, because I keep expecting our beloved Crgreen to comment on our constant inferiority complex.  Time for that to end.  We are in different leagues now and we have the horses to not make excuses any more.  Time to not be afraid of Cuse.

CJ Fair is a great player...I would LOVE to have him on our team, but he has a limited game.  He is extremely athletic around the glass and he can hit the outside shot, but he does very little between the two offensively.  Grant has the ability to do it all.  Grant played 15 mpg...let's not exaggerate to prove a point.  He played 15 mpg for as a freshman FInal Four team. 

Grant will lead Syracuse in scoring.    Sampson is a lot like Fair. 

Not exaggerating to make a point.  I thought he was at about 18mpg, not 15.  Either way, Grant is good but he hasn't shown yet that he can do the things Fair can.  Like I said, he has 6 made threes last year which is far too few to prove he has any real perimeter ability.  I think Fair will still lead Cuse this season with Grant second for sure.  Cuse's biggest problem is backcourt depth and inexperience though.

Quote from: Poison on October 08, 2013, 11:34:48 PM

Quote from: Moose on October 08, 2013, 09:52:07 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 08, 2013, 09:46:51 PM

I don't think Gift can contain any BE center, let alone a guy as strong as Christmas. He might not be the McDonald's AA they expected to be getting, but he plays defense, he rebounds and he holds his position in the paint.

Gift can't do any of those things unless he's playing much weaker competition.  I am lost at how anyone can point to Gift's "performance" against UK as proof that he is capable. That game was an absolute disgrace. We had no business being on the same court with them.

Gift started to score some points and pull down some boards when there was absolutely no doubt that the game was over. So, his offensive rebound and basket off the glass trimmed UK's lead to 65-25. What can you take away from that? In 2006, there was a thread on one of these boards about the awakening of Ricky Torres, because he scored a few baskets at MSG vs Maryland. Why did he score against them? Because they didn't care if he did.

Christmas? Strong?
You mean Coleman, right?

I didn't say skilled. I said strong, and Christmas is strong. You're not going to push him around in the paint. Gift, you barely have to guard.

Gift you barely have to guard?  His numbers were a bit better than Christmas' and Christmas has nothing on Gift in the strength department. 

You can't just look at box scores. Gift was given every opportunity to be a leader on the court. He was given touches, he was given minutes, and he wasn't able to compete at the BE level. Christmas isn't anything close to an All BE player, but he has a role, and he plays it well.

Gift will not be starting on this STJ team, or we are in a world of trouble. That means that he'll be a role player, too. What role will that be? FYI: Black hole isn't a role.

As far as strength goes, are you talking about what each guy can bench? Or how strong they play on the court? Christmas is actually a strong player in the low post. Gift was one of the weaker big men we've had over the last 20 years. If anything, he's soft. He has big muscles, but he doesn't know what to do with them.

Rakeem seems very soft whenever I watch him

Rakeem seems very soft whenever I watch him

I don't think that's his problem. His defense, and rebounding are fine. In high school his lack of touch didn't matter. He could just dunk it on everyone. He has no touch around the basket. He can't shoot. He can't score with any signature move.

But I don't see that as soft. His skill was overvalued coming out of high school. The other kid Keita is a much better player. I think he'll buried behind Keita and Coleman this season.

Quote from: Moose on October 09, 2013, 12:55:10 AM

Rakeem seems very soft whenever I watch him

I don't think that's his problem. His defense, and rebounding are fine. In high school his lack of touch didn't matter. He could just dunk it on everyone. He has no touch around the basket. He can't shoot. He can't score with any signature move.

But I don't see that as soft. His skill was overvalued coming out of high school. The other kid Keita is a much better player. I think he'll buried behind Keita and Coleman this season.

You're confusing me. Are you a fan of his or not? Him and Keita you would think are ahead of Coleman on depth chart. Coleman can't stay in shape and is injury prone. 

By soft I meant scared of contact. His numbers might show fine but the times I've seen him he shies away from contact

Quote from: Poison on October 09, 2013, 01:01:47 AM

Quote from: Moose on October 09, 2013, 12:55:10 AM

Rakeem seems very soft whenever I watch him

I don't think that's his problem. His defense, and rebounding are fine. In high school his lack of touch didn't matter. He could just dunk it on everyone. He has no touch around the basket. He can't shoot. He can't score with any signature move.

But I don't see that as soft. His skill was overvalued coming out of high school. The other kid Keita is a much better player. I think he'll buried behind Keita and Coleman this season.

You're confusing me. Are you a fan of his or not? Him and Keita you would think are ahead of Coleman on depth chart. Coleman can't stay in shape and is injury prone. 

By soft I meant scared of contact. His numbers might show fine but the times I've seen him he shies away from contact

Am I fan of Christmas? Eh, overrated, clearly, but I'd feel better bringing him in off the bench than Gift. At least Christmas knows what he's doing. Coleman got hurt half way through the season. But, if you look at Boeheim's history w young bigs, most improve greatly after their freshman season. Christmas is a rare exception. He simply isn't talented enough.

Double G hasn't played in a game since March 2012.  When he plays in November it will be 20 months since we last saw him play.

It's like getting a new player.  Who knows what he's going to be like?  There might be a role for a big, strong 22-23 year old hustler with this squad.

Double G hasn't played in a game since March 2012.  When he plays in November it will be 20 months since we last saw him play.

It's like getting a new player.  Who knows what he's going to be like?  There might be a role for a big, strong 22-23 year old hustler with this squad.

My thoughts exactly.  If he doesn't improve much, he's still a great 10th man.

Rakeem seems very soft whenever I watch him

As I've said for 2-3 year now...Christmas is softer than dog sh*t.

Quote from: Moose on October 08, 2013, 09:52:07 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 08, 2013, 09:46:51 PM

I don't think Gift can contain any BE center, let alone a guy as strong as Christmas. He might not be the McDonald's AA they expected to be getting, but he plays defense, he rebounds and he holds his position in the paint.

Gift can't do any of those things unless he's playing much weaker competition.  I am lost at how anyone can point to Gift's "performance" against UK as proof that he is capable. That game was an absolute disgrace. We had no business being on the same court with them.

Gift started to score some points and pull down some boards when there was absolutely no doubt that the game was over. So, his offensive rebound and basket off the glass trimmed UK's lead to 65-25. What can you take away from that? In 2006, there was a thread on one of these boards about the awakening of Ricky Torres, because he scored a few baskets at MSG vs Maryland. Why did he score against them? Because they didn't care if he did.

Christmas? Strong?
You mean Coleman, right?

Ah, what's the difference?  Oh, Gift also had 20pts 7 rebs vs Marquette.  He can contribute.

No, he can't.   He contributed when the options were playing Gift or playing a walkon.  And that was what Dunlap was faced with in 2011. 
His numbers vs UK were in a blowout, same for the Marquette game.   In almost every meaningful game he did squat.  I'm not exaggerating.. look it up.   OT game vs Villanova 2pts in 30mins.   Win at WVU? 2pts 28mins   Win against UCLA 2pts.  Etc
His best performance was probably 9pts 5reb in our win at Cinncinnatti.   But the vast majority of his "quality" games came in 15+pt losses like UCONN, Marquette, UK, Pittsburgh, USF

Coleman and Christmas are top 20 recruits.  Granted they haven't shown much yet.   But if another team made the same argument about Ryhsyeed Jordan compared to their upperclass juco transfer who put up pedestrian numbers.. you would laugh at them.   

I don't enjoy criticizing gift.  And I dont want to sound like the debbie downer, but not everybody on our team is 'awesome'.  I'm sorry, but that's just a fact.   And too many of our fans have an inaccurate assessment of his abilities.   

Quote from: MCNPA on October 08, 2013, 10:11:49 PM

Quote from: Moose on October 08, 2013, 09:52:07 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 08, 2013, 09:46:51 PM

I don't think Gift can contain any BE center, let alone a guy as strong as Christmas. He might not be the McDonald's AA they expected to be getting, but he plays defense, he rebounds and he holds his position in the paint.

Gift can't do any of those things unless he's playing much weaker competition.  I am lost at how anyone can point to Gift's "performance" against UK as proof that he is capable. That game was an absolute disgrace. We had no business being on the same court with them.

Gift started to score some points and pull down some boards when there was absolutely no doubt that the game was over. So, his offensive rebound and basket off the glass trimmed UK's lead to 65-25. What can you take away from that? In 2006, there was a thread on one of these boards about the awakening of Ricky Torres, because he scored a few baskets at MSG vs Maryland. Why did he score against them? Because they didn't care if he did.

Christmas? Strong?
You mean Coleman, right?

Ah, what's the difference?  Oh, Gift also had 20pts 7 rebs vs Marquette.  He can contribute.

No, he can't.   He contributed when the options were playing Gift or playing a walkon.  And that was what Dunlap was faced with in 2011. 
His numbers vs UK were in a blowout, same for the Marquette game.   In almost every meaningful game he did squat.  I'm not exaggerating.. look it up.   OT game vs Villanova 2pts in 30mins.   Win at WVU? 2pts 28mins   Win against UCLA 2pts.  Etc
His best performance was probably 9pts 5reb in our win at Cinncinnatti.   But the vast majority of his "quality" games came in 15+pt losses like UCONN, Marquette, UK, Pittsburgh, USF

Coleman and Christmas are top 20 recruits.  Granted they haven't shown much yet.   But if another team made the same argument about Ryhsyeed Jordan compared to their upperclass juco transfer who put up pedestrian numbers.. you would laugh at them.   

I don't enjoy criticizing gift.  And I dont want to sound like the debbie downer, but not everybody on our team is 'awesome'.  I'm sorry, but that's just a fact.   And too many of our fans have an inaccurate assessment of his abilities.   

Exemplary guy, but undersized with limited basketball acumen & bad hands IMO. Folks forget his AA Juco designation was in Division II. In any event, he will only be needed sparingly, unless someone is injured.

Quote from: MCNPA on October 08, 2013, 10:11:49 PM

Quote from: Moose on October 08, 2013, 09:52:07 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 08, 2013, 09:46:51 PM

I don't think Gift can contain any BE center, let alone a guy as strong as Christmas. He might not be the McDonald's AA they expected to be getting, but he plays defense, he rebounds and he holds his position in the paint.

Gift can't do any of those things unless he's playing much weaker competition.  I am lost at how anyone can point to Gift's "performance" against UK as proof that he is capable. That game was an absolute disgrace. We had no business being on the same court with them.

Gift started to score some points and pull down some boards when there was absolutely no doubt that the game was over. So, his offensive rebound and basket off the glass trimmed UK's lead to 65-25. What can you take away from that? In 2006, there was a thread on one of these boards about the awakening of Ricky Torres, because he scored a few baskets at MSG vs Maryland. Why did he score against them? Because they didn't care if he did.

Christmas? Strong?
You mean Coleman, right?

Ah, what's the difference?  Oh, Gift also had 20pts 7 rebs vs Marquette.  He can contribute.

Coleman and Christmas are top 20 recruits.  Granted they haven't shown much yet.   But if another team made the same argument about Ryhsyeed Jordan compared to their upperclass juco transfer who put up pedestrian numbers.. you would laugh at them.   
   

This. I love Gift, and hope he can give us 10min off the bench this year. Truthfully, I don't think we'll use him much at all. I don't want to have to count on him to guard Coleman or Christmas.

 No one here has seen GG play in a year and a half.. Lets see what he brings to the table.. he's been working out and playing with much talented players since we last saw him.. He is obviously a very intelligent kid.. Chances are he has improved..

 He will help this team and contribute.

Quote from: MCNPA on October 08, 2013, 10:11:49 PM

Quote from: Moose on October 08, 2013, 09:52:07 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 08, 2013, 09:46:51 PM

I don't think Gift can contain any BE center, let alone a guy as strong as Christmas. He might not be the McDonald's AA they expected to be getting, but he plays defense, he rebounds and he holds his position in the paint.

Gift can't do any of those things unless he's playing much weaker competition.  I am lost at how anyone can point to Gift's "performance" against UK as proof that he is capable. That game was an absolute disgrace. We had no business being on the same court with them.

Gift started to score some points and pull down some boards when there was absolutely no doubt that the game was over. So, his offensive rebound and basket off the glass trimmed UK's lead to 65-25. What can you take away from that? In 2006, there was a thread on one of these boards about the awakening of Ricky Torres, because he scored a few baskets at MSG vs Maryland. Why did he score against them? Because they didn't care if he did.

Christmas? Strong?
You mean Coleman, right?

Ah, what's the difference?  Oh, Gift also had 20pts 7 rebs vs Marquette.  He can contribute.

No, he can't.   He contributed when the options were playing Gift or playing a walkon.  And that was what Dunlap was faced with in 2011. 
His numbers vs UK were in a blowout, same for the Marquette game.   In almost every meaningful game he did squat.  I'm not exaggerating.. look it up.   OT game vs Villanova 2pts in 30mins.   Win at WVU? 2pts 28mins   Win against UCLA 2pts.  Etc
His best performance was probably 9pts 5reb in our win at Cinncinnatti.   But the vast majority of his "quality" games came in 15+pt losses like UCONN, Marquette, UK, Pittsburgh, USF

Coleman and Christmas are top 20 recruits.  Granted they haven't shown much yet.   But if another team made the same argument about Ryhsyeed Jordan compared to their upperclass juco transfer who put up pedestrian numbers.. you would laugh at them.   

I don't enjoy criticizing gift.  And I dont want to sound like the debbie downer, but not everybody on our team is 'awesome'.  I'm sorry, but that's just a fact.   And too many of our fans have an inaccurate assessment of his abilities.   

Well stated.  MCN is awesome, but he is the king of the homers and that is not really a bad thing (no offense intended).

No one here has seen GG play in a year and a half.. Lets see what he brings to the table.. he's been working out and playing with much talented players since we last saw him.. He is obviously a very intelligent kid.. Chances are he has improved..

 He will help this team and contribute.

How did this get here. rational

Quote from: desco80 on October 09, 2013, 02:59:41 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on October 08, 2013, 10:11:49 PM

Quote from: Moose on October 08, 2013, 09:52:07 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 08, 2013, 09:46:51 PM

I don't think Gift can contain any BE center, let alone a guy as strong as Christmas. He might not be the McDonald's AA they expected to be getting, but he plays defense, he rebounds and he holds his position in the paint.

Gift can't do any of those things unless he's playing much weaker competition.  I am lost at how anyone can point to Gift's "performance" against UK as proof that he is capable. That game was an absolute disgrace. We had no business being on the same court with them.

Gift started to score some points and pull down some boards when there was absolutely no doubt that the game was over. So, his offensive rebound and basket off the glass trimmed UK's lead to 65-25. What can you take away from that? In 2006, there was a thread on one of these boards about the awakening of Ricky Torres, because he scored a few baskets at MSG vs Maryland. Why did he score against them? Because they didn't care if he did.

Christmas? Strong?
You mean Coleman, right?

Ah, what's the difference?  Oh, Gift also had 20pts 7 rebs vs Marquette.  He can contribute.

No, he can't.   He contributed when the options were playing Gift or playing a walkon.  And that was what Dunlap was faced with in 2011. 
His numbers vs UK were in a blowout, same for the Marquette game.   In almost every meaningful game he did squat.  I'm not exaggerating.. look it up.   OT game vs Villanova 2pts in 30mins.   Win at WVU? 2pts 28mins   Win against UCLA 2pts.  Etc
His best performance was probably 9pts 5reb in our win at Cinncinnatti.   But the vast majority of his "quality" games came in 15+pt losses like UCONN, Marquette, UK, Pittsburgh, USF

Coleman and Christmas are top 20 recruits.  Granted they haven't shown much yet.   But if another team made the same argument about Ryhsyeed Jordan compared to their upperclass juco transfer who put up pedestrian numbers.. you would laugh at them.   

I don't enjoy criticizing gift.  And I dont want to sound like the debbie downer, but not everybody on our team is 'awesome'.  I'm sorry, but that's just a fact.   And too many of our fans have an inaccurate assessment of his abilities.   

Well stated.  MCN is awesome, but he is the king of the homers and that is not really a bad thing (no offense intended).

All I was saying is that Gift put up far better numbers in one season than Christmas or Coleman.  People are in denial that he can't help against those two if needed.  His "pedestrian" numbers werent that pedestrian.  He certainly had some good games and bad ones, but hes more than a capable backup PF/C. 

Quote from: Marillac on October 09, 2013, 04:00:28 PM

Quote from: desco80 on October 09, 2013, 02:59:41 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on October 08, 2013, 10:11:49 PM

Quote from: Moose on October 08, 2013, 09:52:07 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 08, 2013, 09:46:51 PM

I don't think Gift can contain any BE center, let alone a guy as strong as Christmas. He might not be the McDonald's AA they expected to be getting, but he plays defense, he rebounds and he holds his position in the paint.

Gift can't do any of those things unless he's playing much weaker competition.  I am lost at how anyone can point to Gift's "performance" against UK as proof that he is capable. That game was an absolute disgrace. We had no business being on the same court with them.

Gift started to score some points and pull down some boards when there was absolutely no doubt that the game was over. So, his offensive rebound and basket off the glass trimmed UK's lead to 65-25. What can you take away from that? In 2006, there was a thread on one of these boards about the awakening of Ricky Torres, because he scored a few baskets at MSG vs Maryland. Why did he score against them? Because they didn't care if he did.

Christmas? Strong?
You mean Coleman, right?

Ah, what's the difference?  Oh, Gift also had 20pts 7 rebs vs Marquette.  He can contribute.

No, he can't.   He contributed when the options were playing Gift or playing a walkon.  And that was what Dunlap was faced with in 2011. 
His numbers vs UK were in a blowout, same for the Marquette game.   In almost every meaningful game he did squat.  I'm not exaggerating.. look it up.   OT game vs Villanova 2pts in 30mins.   Win at WVU? 2pts 28mins   Win against UCLA 2pts.  Etc
His best performance was probably 9pts 5reb in our win at Cinncinnatti.   But the vast majority of his "quality" games came in 15+pt losses like UCONN, Marquette, UK, Pittsburgh, USF

Coleman and Christmas are top 20 recruits.  Granted they haven't shown much yet.   But if another team made the same argument about Ryhsyeed Jordan compared to their upperclass juco transfer who put up pedestrian numbers.. you would laugh at them.   

I don't enjoy criticizing gift.  And I dont want to sound like the debbie downer, but not everybody on our team is 'awesome'.  I'm sorry, but that's just a fact.   And too many of our fans have an inaccurate assessment of his abilities.   

Well stated.  MCN is awesome, but he is the king of the homers and that is not really a bad thing (no offense intended).

All I was saying is that Gift put up far better numbers in one season than Christmas or Coleman.  People are in denial that he can't help against those two if needed.  His "pedestrian" numbers werent that pedestrian.  He certainly had some good games and bad ones, but hes more than a capable backup PF/C. 

That's the thing, he didn't up better numbers than Christmas. Christmas was an efficient rebounder. Gift was not. Gift's stats only seem better bec they padded against cup cakes. He was a compiler. He only scored against a legit D1 team when we were getting housed.

It has been a long time since he's played, and yes, he is intelligent. It will be very interesting to see how much he has improved. I truly hope he has.

Quote from: MCNPA on October 09, 2013, 06:04:17 PM

Quote from: Marillac on October 09, 2013, 04:00:28 PM

Quote from: desco80 on October 09, 2013, 02:59:41 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on October 08, 2013, 10:11:49 PM

Quote from: Moose on October 08, 2013, 09:52:07 PM

Quote from: Poison on October 08, 2013, 09:46:51 PM

I don't think Gift can contain any BE center, let alone a guy as strong as Christmas. He might not be the McDonald's AA they expected to be getting, but he plays defense, he rebounds and he holds his position in the paint.

Gift can't do any of those things unless he's playing much weaker competition.  I am lost at how anyone can point to Gift's "performance" against UK as proof that he is capable. That game was an absolute disgrace. We had no business being on the same court with them.

Gift started to score some points and pull down some boards when there was absolutely no doubt that the game was over. So, his offensive rebound and basket off the glass trimmed UK's lead to 65-25. What can you take away from that? In 2006, there was a thread on one of these boards about the awakening of Ricky Torres, because he scored a few baskets at MSG vs Maryland. Why did he score against them? Because they didn't care if he did.

Christmas? Strong?
You mean Coleman, right?

Ah, what's the difference?  Oh, Gift also had 20pts 7 rebs vs Marquette.  He can contribute.

No, he can't.   He contributed when the options were playing Gift or playing a walkon.  And that was what Dunlap was faced with in 2011. 
His numbers vs UK were in a blowout, same for the Marquette game.   In almost every meaningful game he did squat.  I'm not exaggerating.. look it up.   OT game vs Villanova 2pts in 30mins.   Win at WVU? 2pts 28mins   Win against UCLA 2pts.  Etc
His best performance was probably 9pts 5reb in our win at Cinncinnatti.   But the vast majority of his "quality" games came in 15+pt losses like UCONN, Marquette, UK, Pittsburgh, USF

Coleman and Christmas are top 20 recruits.  Granted they haven't shown much yet.   But if another team made the same argument about Ryhsyeed Jordan compared to their upperclass juco transfer who put up pedestrian numbers.. you would laugh at them.   

I don't enjoy criticizing gift.  And I dont want to sound like the debbie downer, but not everybody on our team is 'awesome'.  I'm sorry, but that's just a fact.   And too many of our fans have an inaccurate assessment of his abilities.   

Well stated.  MCN is awesome, but he is the king of the homers and that is not really a bad thing (no offense intended).

All I was saying is that Gift put up far better numbers in one season than Christmas or Coleman.  People are in denial that he can't help against those two if needed.  His "pedestrian" numbers werent that pedestrian.  He certainly had some good games and bad ones, but hes more than a capable backup PF/C. 

That's the thing, he didn't up better numbers than Christmas. Christmas was an efficient rebounder. Gift was not. Gift's stats only seem better bec they padded against cup cakes. He was a compiler. He only scored against a legit D1 team when we were getting housed.



It has been a long time since he's played, and yes, he is intelligent. It will be very interesting to see how much he has improved. I truly hope he has.

Fwiw, their rebounding efficiency was similar.  Gift at 1.8 rebounds per minute vs Christmas 2.2 which is not much different at all.  That was in Christmas' second season though vs Gift's first.  Gift at least scored vs the cupcakes.  Christmas hasn't scored against anybody.

Forgive me for playing Devil's advocate here.  I just haven't seen any sort of compelling case that these guys are better than Gift to this point.  Gift want play a ton this season most likely, but that will be because we have better options in the frontcourt.  Cuse has some other options too which has limited those guys minutes and might even more if that kid Roberson, Keita or others step up.