St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #400 on: November 10, 2013, 05:25:03 PM »
Does anybody remember how irrelevant we were since jarvis, Lav has come in took us to the tourney. Had his first recruit go top the NBA after one year, lost his best asst to an NBA head coaching spot, had to deal with cancer, beat out Kansas for Jakarr, beat out temple and ucla for Jordan, has us mentioned with top recruits all over the country (granted some have not made here or went elsewhere), led school into nice UA deal when we were an afterthought with nike and is leading us into the new Big East with Fox. After one game in south dakota against a good big ten team its a joke that some fans are jumping ship.
Most of what you mentioned is window dressing. Most important aspect of coaching regime is wins and losses and so far the results are far less than stellar.

Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #401 on: November 10, 2013, 06:07:43 PM »
Does anybody remember how irrelevant we were since jarvis, Lav has come in took us to the tourney. Had his first recruit go top the NBA after one year, lost his best asst to an NBA head coaching spot, had to deal with cancer, beat out Kansas for Jakarr, beat out temple and ucla for Jordan, has us mentioned with top recruits all over the country (granted some have not made here or went elsewhere), led school into nice UA deal when we were an afterthought with nike and is leading us into the new Big East with Fox. After one game in south dakota against a good big ten team its a joke that some fans are jumping ship.
Most of what you mentioned is window dressing. Most important aspect of coaching regime is wins and losses and so far the results are far less than stellar.

Window dressing?  Getting interest and commitments from recruits is vital to being a successful program.  Wins and losses is the bottom line but it starts with getting players.

boo3

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #402 on: November 10, 2013, 06:09:15 PM »
Does anybody remember how irrelevant we were since jarvis, Lav has come in took us to the tourney. Had his first recruit go top the NBA after one year, lost his best asst to an NBA head coaching spot, had to deal with cancer, beat out Kansas for Jakarr, beat out temple and ucla for Jordan, has us mentioned with top recruits all over the country (granted some have not made here or went elsewhere), led school into nice UA deal when we were an afterthought with nike and is leading us into the new Big East with Fox. After one game in south dakota against a good big ten team its a joke that some fans are jumping ship.
Most of what you mentioned is window dressing. Most important aspect of coaching regime is wins and losses and so far the results are far less than stellar.

Window dressing?  Getting interest and commitments from recruits is vital to being a successful program.  Wins and losses is the bottom line but it starts with getting players.

 SimplyRed-  I can only shake my head at this point and laugh..

TONYD3

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #403 on: November 10, 2013, 08:59:36 PM »
lavin has done a lot of great things here. But he is paid to win basketball games. I think most people are frustrated nit because we lost one game but because the team played like they were completely unprepared. Lavin makes a lot of money when he sucks he deserves criticism. The team absolutely sucked Friday night

Poison

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #404 on: November 10, 2013, 09:16:29 PM »
lavin has done a lot of great things here. But he is paid to win basketball games. I think most people are frustrated nit because we lost one game but because the team played like they were completely unprepared. Lavin makes a lot of money when he sucks he deserves criticism. The team absolutely sucked Friday night

Amen

MCNPA

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #405 on: November 10, 2013, 10:29:26 PM »
lavin has done a lot of great things here. But he is paid to win basketball games. I think most people are frustrated nit because we lost one game but because the team played like they were completely unprepared. Lavin makes a lot of money when he sucks he deserves criticism. The team absolutely sucked Friday night

Like I said, Bo Ryan and his Wisconsin team make Beilein and Matta look unprepared, not once but twice last season.  Both two are very good coaches.  We went down too early, plain and simple.  We played much better second half of the game, but it was too late.

Try truth is that we are certainly still finding our way.  We lack guys the can shoot and with offensive games.  We have a lot of highly touted guys, but still low on skilled scoring and shooting department as well as in the IQ department.  We still have a lot of talent, and will get a ton better by season's end, but this performance wasn't a shining one and was not encouraging early in the game. 

We did claw back within 4, which is a huge feat in and of itself. Sows how capable we actually are.  Then a bad turnover or two, with made threes back to back and it was sealed again.  I still think we are going to be a good team this year.  For that to happen, Jordan and  Sanchez need to be on the court as much as possible along with Sampson and Harrison. Then Pointer, Obekpa and this may shock some, but Gift.  After that, guys like Branch and Greene can work in, but guys like Greene and Branch aren't offering us much right now. 

Poison

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #406 on: November 10, 2013, 11:29:29 PM »
lavin has done a lot of great things here. But he is paid to win basketball games. I think most people are frustrated nit because we lost one game but because the team played like they were completely unprepared. Lavin makes a lot of money when he sucks he deserves criticism. The team absolutely sucked Friday night

Like I said, Bo Ryan and his Wisconsin team make Beilein and Matta look unprepared, not once but twice last season.  Both two are very good coaches.  We went down too early, plain and simple.  We played much better second half of the game, but it was too late.

Try truth is that we are certainly still finding our way.  We lack guys the can shoot and with offensive games.  We have a lot of highly touted guys, but still low on skilled scoring and shooting department as well as in the IQ department.  We still have a lot of talent, and will get a ton better by season's end, but this performance wasn't a shining one and was not encouraging early in the game. 

We did claw back within 4, which is a huge feat in and of itself. Sows how capable we actually are.  Then a bad turnover or two, with made threes back to back and it was sealed again.  I still think we are going to be a good team this year.  For that to happen, Jordan and  Sanchez need to be on the court as much as possible along with Sampson and Harrison. Then Pointer, Obekpa and this may shock some, but Gift.  After that, guys like Branch and Greene can work in, but guys like Greene and Branch aren't offering us much right now. 

I think you are over complicating this. We have experience, talent and depth. This summer, we were given a head start by playing 6 exhibition games in Europe.

This is less about Wisconsin, and more about us. With all of the advantages we've had building up to this game, I think every fan has a right to wonder what on earth Lavin was trying to do in this game?

For example, let's get more specific. In the second half, we closed the gap to a 4 point deficit. And after we scored THAT basket, it was clear, that the momentum had turned. How did we respond? By chilling out on defense, and letting them hit an uncontested 3.

Where was the press? Why do these uber talented upperclassmen not know how to press, and why wasn't it completely obvious to them that they should have?

Will this team improve? I think so. They are talented enough. We can see that. I would have been fine with a loss, but I'm disappointed that after 8 games (summer and D2 games), our guys are making freshman mistakes on both sides of the ball.

Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #407 on: November 10, 2013, 11:37:22 PM »
24 minutes 2 - 9 shooting 6 points  3 rebounds 3 assists 3 turnovers 5 fouls
18 minutes 2 - 5 shooting 5 points 3 rebounds 2 assists 0 turnovers 2 fouls

Mean Joe was obviously our best guard not named D'angelo last night.  It's not even in question.

Poison

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #408 on: November 10, 2013, 11:45:47 PM »
24 minutes 2 - 9 shooting 6 points  3 rebounds 3 assists 3 turnovers 5 fouls
18 minutes 2 - 5 shooting 5 points 3 rebounds 2 assists 0 turnovers 2 fouls

Mean Joe was obviously our best guard not named D'angelo last night.  It's not even in question.

It doesn't matter. This isn't a player vs player problem. They don't play as a team. None of them.

SJUFAN

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #409 on: November 11, 2013, 01:17:35 AM »
For example, let's get more specific. In the second half, we closed the gap to a 4 point deficit. And after we scored THAT basket, it was clear, that the momentum had turned. How did we respond? By chilling out on defense, and letting them hit an uncontested 3.

So you think the game plan was to go down by 18, close the gap to 4, then let them hit an uncontested 3? I think the team and coaches made the proper adjustments to close the gap to 4 after getting down by 18, but by then it was to late, the foul fest did them in.

Where was the press? Why do these uber talented upperclassmen not know how to press, and why wasn't it completely obvious to them that they should have?

Because we are not a pressing team, that much should be obvious. You may disagree with it, that's your prerogative, but that is the case. Not sure what you saw that makes it obvious that we should have pressed or what the results would have been had we pressed. I think we lose by twenty if we pressed.

Will this team improve? I think so. They are talented enough. We can see that. I would have been fine with a loss, but I'm disappointed that after 8 games (summer and D2 games), our guys are making freshman mistakes on both sides of the ball.

I think the problem is, many of you believe coaches are pharaohs and all they must do is make an edict. Players' need to execute. The coaches are not telling the team to give up uncontested threes. Wisconsin made shots, they didn't make easy shots, only a hand full were uncontested long threes. We didn't make shots. Give the 21st ranked team in the country some respect. They had five players score in double figures, we had two. Do you believe Lavin's game plan was for Branch and Sanchez to only take 2 FG attempts. Players' need to step up and execute. If the team doesn't improve then it will be on coach. 
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 01:21:32 AM by SJUFAN »

Poison

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #410 on: November 11, 2013, 02:25:11 AM »
For example, let's get more specific. In the second half, we closed the gap to a 4 point deficit. And after we scored THAT basket, it was clear, that the momentum had turned. How did we respond? By chilling out on defense, and letting them hit an uncontested 3.

So you think the game plan was to go down by 18, close the gap to 4, then let them hit an uncontested 3? I think the team and coaches made the proper adjustments to close the gap to 4 after getting down by 18, but by then it was to late, the foul fest did them in.

Where was the press? Why do these uber talented upperclassmen not know how to press, and why wasn't it completely obvious to them that they should have?

Because we are not a pressing team, that much should be obvious. You may disagree with it, that's your prerogative, but that is the case. Not sure what you saw that makes it obvious that we should have pressed or what the results would have been had we pressed. I think we lose by twenty if we pressed.

Will this team improve? I think so. They are talented enough. We can see that. I would have been fine with a loss, but I'm disappointed that after 8 games (summer and D2 games), our guys are making freshman mistakes on both sides of the ball.

I think the problem is, many of you believe coaches are pharaohs and all they must do is make an edict. Players' need to execute. The coaches are not telling the team to give up uncontested threes. Wisconsin made shots, they didn't make easy shots, only a hand full were uncontested long threes. We didn't make shots. Give the 21st ranked team in the country some respect. They had five players score in double figures, we had two. Do you believe Lavin's game plan was for Branch and Sanchez to only take 2 FG attempts. Players' need to step up and execute. If the team doesn't improve then it will be on coach. 

You're asking me if I think the gameplan was to go down by 18 points? Actually, no I don't. I thought I made it pretty clear that there was no game plan.

The "we are not a pressing team" bit is unacceptable. All we hear about all summer is how talented and quick our guys are. If they can't press, it's because that aspect of the game hasn't been taught properly.

This team needs to find it's identity. The starting line up is awful. I can't tell who the point guard is, and I'm not sure they even know. We have to hope that this Whitesell guy can fix our glaring issues. I don't know what his specialty is, but right now, this is what I saw:

1. No point guard. Is it Branch or Jordan? Pick one.
2. We weren't running an offense. Our players get the ball and take turns trying to score. It was pretty ugly. We look like a street ball team.
3. We have no defensive philosophy. We don't press. I agree with that, but then fine, we accept it, for now. What do we do? We suck at the zone, we suck at man to man. What else is there?
4. No plays for shooters. Hooper took one three, and it was a contested jump shot. How is it that a bunch of slow bench players and freshman can get their shooters open shots, and we can't? I think it's because we are a lousy passing team. I'd like to see them work on it. A lot.
5. Stupid fouls. We committed a ton of stupid fouls. Sanchez, Jordan, Pointer etc were the biggest culprits.

I am fully aware that many if these issues are issues that most teams face early in the season. That said, it's early for every team, and I'm sick of that always being an accepted excuse on these boards. In the stands, the fans know better because they haven't been in them.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 07:19:15 PM by Poison »

Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #411 on: November 11, 2013, 09:09:01 AM »
Wisconsin played a summer schedule too.  Theirs was closer and there were no sites to visit in Canada.  Obviously, their trip helped them more than ours helped us.

Poison

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #412 on: November 11, 2013, 09:11:31 AM »
Wisconsin played a summer schedule too.  Theirs was closer and there were no sites to visit in Canada.  Obviously, their trip helped them more than ours helped us.

Their players fit into Bo Ryan's system. I have no idea how Lavin intends to use Jordan. So far, when the game starts, you can't even tell who our point guard is. Brian Mahoney is a spot on comparison in that regard.

Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #413 on: November 11, 2013, 09:26:02 AM »
Taking a step back from the details of the loss might help with closure.  We traveled half way across the country to play a "neutral site," season-opening game against the 20th ranked team in the country captained by their longtime coach who runs a system that is the complete antithesis of ours.  Everyone, including Vegas, thought we were decided underdogs heading into the game.  In the end, we lost a game that, on paper, we were supposed to lose.

I hope Wisconsin returns the favor and plays us in the Garden next November.

Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #414 on: November 11, 2013, 09:53:35 AM »
Out of curiosity what was the line?

Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #415 on: November 11, 2013, 09:57:12 AM »
Out of curiosity what was the line?
SJU +6.5.  Opened at 3.5

kob24

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #416 on: November 11, 2013, 09:59:50 AM »
All I'm gonna say to u guys is I totally understand what u guys mean. BUT be careful what u wish for

TONYD3

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #417 on: November 11, 2013, 11:07:21 AM »
I am not saying we should fire lavin, BUT we play Syracuse next month. Not saying he has to win . We we better show up

Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #418 on: November 11, 2013, 12:03:18 PM »
All I'm gonna say to u guys is I totally understand what u guys mean. BUT be careful what u wish for

+infnity

i'm upset that we lost, but i love Lavin.  and i think he's actually really smart.  key now and moving forward is actually making adjustments and learning from HIS mistakes.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 12:04:56 PM by redmen4life »

desco80

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #419 on: November 11, 2013, 12:08:14 PM »
I am not saying we should fire lavin, BUT we play Syracuse next month. Not saying he has to win . We we better show up

Why would you even insinuate that a non-conference game in December could be a must-win game?   
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 12:11:11 PM by desco80 »