@Seton Hall Game Thread

FG% does not determine how good of a shooter you are and never will.  Sorry to break it to you Moose

FG% does not determine how good of a shooter you are and never will.  Sorry to break it to you Moose

Really?  Thanks.

Quote from: Needs2go on February 14, 2014, 04:02:07 PM

What the heck are you talking about Moose???  What stats?

That they shot the same last year??


Are you serious there is no comparison between Greene as a shooter and Branch.  End of conversation.  Its like comparing a Rolls Royce to a Hyundai.  There would be nothing to compare.

Why do I bother responding.  You said "I cannot name another guard in the country who gets PT who actually has a worse shot than this guy".  And then I pointed out they shot the same last year.  I didn't bother to mention that Branch has a higher shooting % this year than Greene figuring I'd let you let the argument die.  But since you brought it up there you go.

I personally don't care much for either player.  They are both Hyundai's to me.  If I had to choose I choose Branch because he actually will penetrate with the ball.

Exactly. When Branch gets in the lane, things happen. He's been penetrating and drawing fouls. I've seen some good d as well. Greene scored a little, but Edwin are him alive. Sometimes I don't know what game some people are watching.

Gotta agree.  Not the best showing from Dom or Sanchez last night.. Will need them both to perform much better to beat G'town

Boo, thank you. My thinking has been we need everyone to give us something. A couple of the guys who were weak last night might be the guys to win us the game Sunday. Harrison and Sampson did not play well, and we sure as can be we gonna need them Sunday. Sanchez was lost but for sure coach gonna play him, so we need him to be into it. I hope Branch is 100% and would love to see him and Green play great. My point is these are our guys. They play for SJU and we need them to kick butt. Why rip'em? And no Jack, and you Boo, nothing negative here being directed at you. It seems we have a pretty good bunch of guys to pull for.

FG% does not determine how good of a shooter you are and never will.  Sorry to break it to you Moose

Lol you're one of those guys that loves stats when they support your argument but say they are meaningless when they go against your pre-conceived beliefs

Quote from: Needs2go on February 14, 2014, 04:14:22 PM

FG% does not determine how good of a shooter you are and never will.  Sorry to break it to you Moose

Lol you're one of those guys that loves stats when they support your argument but say they are meaningless when they go against your pre-conceived beliefs

 to be fair.. he also uses stats when they don't support his argument either.....( see earlier exchange with Foad)

Is there anyway to suspend him for a game or two  the way Seton Hall suspended Teague and Oliver?  Maybe for the rest of the season?

Quote from: goredmen on February 14, 2014, 04:59:04 PM

Quote from: Needs2go on February 14, 2014, 04:14:22 PM

FG% does not determine how good of a shooter you are and never will.  Sorry to break it to you Moose

Lol you're one of those guys that loves stats when they support your argument but say they are meaningless when they go against your pre-conceived beliefs

 to be fair.. he also uses stats when they don't support his argument either.....( see earlier exchange with Foad)

 

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Well last year Greene and Branch had the same shooting %.

Do not compare Greene to Branch because Greene is a much better ballplayer.  No comparison what so ever. 

Okay, as Greene's #2 fan and a big fan of Branch, I feel I need to step in.  Greene is  a great set shooter and he has a ton of offensive potential off the ball.  I love his floater, he can take it to the whole nicely when it's there,  never turns it over, etc.   But Branch gives this team a whole different look.  The ball moves so much better with him in the game.  He's not a good shooter, but he's not Dom either.   His shot actually looks pretty decent.  He's very good on the break and in secondary transition.  I'm all for him taking it to the hole any play in the half court...his biggest problem is he lack aggression. 

Both players are very important going forward.  If we continue to see zones or  packed in man-to-man, Greene will be need ed to take 8-10 jumpers .  When we have Jordan-Branch-Harrison on the floor...that is legit threats to drive and three guys that can catch the ball stress the D and move it to someone in a better situation...two or three of those and you have an open shot. 

Is there anyway to suspend him for a game or two  the way Seton Hall suspended Teague and Oliver?  Maybe for the rest of the season?

For being selfisg trying to win every argument, however unsupported they might be.

 Francesa actually opened his show today with St. John's win over Seton Hall.  I think if we beat Gtown on Sunday, this thing really starts to snowball, within the media and other outlets..   Have to keep the mo-mo going

Quote from: Marillac on February 14, 2014, 06:19:39 AM

Quote from: goredmen on February 14, 2014, 03:38:09 AM

Quote from: Marillac on February 14, 2014, 02:52:33 AM

Quote from: redstorm212 on February 14, 2014, 02:15:06 AM

Quote from: Dave on February 14, 2014, 01:51:30 AM

Quote from: redstorm212 on February 14, 2014, 01:31:45 AM

Quote from: Dave on February 14, 2014, 01:11:59 AM

Quote from: redstorm212 on February 14, 2014, 01:03:31 AM

I wish Dom would shoot the three occasionally. He's not THAT bad of a shooter to the point where he can't shoot a wide open 3.

I don't. I think one of Dom's best assets is that he plays to his strength 15 ft and in.

So you're happy when he pumpfakes a wide open three only to dribble into a defender and take a contested 2?

He shoots 11% from 3 so any time he doesn't shoot it from 3 I'm happy. He does however make 50% of his 2 point attempts and he's 2nd on the team in assists.

The 11% isn't a true indicator of his 3pt stroke. I would say at least half of those are late shot clock heaves, or end of half heaves. Rareley does he shoot a wide open set 3pt shoot and he has many opportunities to do so.

I haven't seen Dom take anything but a completely wide open three this entire year.  Any shot by Dom from deep is a bad shot and that 89% likelihood of a miss comes with a 100% likelihood that Dom will not try to rebound the shot. 

The kid is really going to hurt this team going forward unless there are some very major adjustments to his mindset and his role on this team.  Any coach that doesn't zone us when Dom is on the floor is a fool.  For this reason, I think Gtown will beat us and I've been the biggest homer of them all this year. 

The thing that drives me nuts is I really think this kid can be damn good as a guy that does the dirty work....attacking the baseline...driving when left open.  I never see the kid cut. EVER.  I never see him screen.  I never see him go for an offensive rebound.  He floats on the 3 pt line.

I love this kid from Southern Miss.  6'4 210  G/F that isn't overly talented but does all the dirty work and brings great D, hustle, and rebounding.  He averages over three offensive rebounds per game in 26 minutes at 6'4.  He got 4 offensive boards tonight in just 14 minutes!  http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/players/88732/
14 minutes to get 4 offensive rebounds....coming into tonight it took Dom 14 GAMES and 290 minutes to get just four offensive rebounds. I know I'm annoying with offensive rebounding, but think about that.  It's crazy.

Dom was kind of asked to be more of a scorer and play on the ball a lot after the Harrison suspension last year. The staff needs to let him know that his role has changed greatly since then

I don't get how this hasn't been spotted and/or addressed?  On every single play in the half court, Dom is standing  on the three point line after his teammate shoots it.  His defender is never within 5-10 feet of him, so he could be soaring in untouched for every miss.   One look at the stats and it pops out at you. 

We go 6-12 minutes with a FG seemingly every game win or lose.  That doesn't happen when you crash the glass relentlessly. 
Cincy is not better than us, yet they are a top ten team because they crash the glass every shot.  They get 10 offensive rebounds a game from the 2-4 positions, and 2.4 per game from the starting wing Titus Rubles. 

Every single team in the top ten has a SG or SF that averages at least 1.5 offensive rebounds per game (9/10 have at least one that averages 2.0) and a forward that shoots 35% or better from three.  We don't have that...Lavin needs to find someone next year to fill that role.

Rasheed Jordan got two huge offensive rebounds in a five second span last night...it took Dom 12 games and 233 minutes between 12/28 against Youngstown State and 2/1 against Marquette to get TWO offensive rebounds. 

How many times has Dom Pointer made a stop in transition defense?

Can't crash all 5 guys all the time. Guys need to stay on perimeter and get back.

Dom Pointer never stops the ball on transition defense. He lets the defender get to the rim so he can go for the block every single time.

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As for Branch being a lousy outside shooter...he's only taken six treys all year, making one.  Dom has taken 17 making only two. 

Can someone please get me a pair of these glasses you guys wear when evaluating Branch.  Even to argue the point that Branch isn't a bad outside shooter makes absolutely no sense no matter who you are comparing him to.

Let's take a quick look at the past 2 years since Branch has been at St John's and most guards should be better shooters than most forwards.  In an overall evaluation that's the way it would end up

GUARD- Branch  4-23
FOWARD- Pointer 11-44

Conclusion of the jungle- Pointer is horrible and cant shoot and poor ol Branch just hasn't been given the chance as most junior pg's in the country only have 1 made 3 this year and a total of 4 over 2 years.  Just brutal but Branch will keep getting the love from in here as most people consider him a difference maker.  LOL

16.7=5&1
9.4=0&5

Branch=difference maker

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 14, 2014, 02:25:25 PM

Quote from: Moose on February 14, 2014, 02:13:20 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 14, 2014, 02:04:43 PM

Quote from: Dave on February 14, 2014, 01:14:29 AM

The story of Phil Greene tonight. He had 4 three point attempts and the two he made were set catch and shoot shots. The other 2 were off the bounce and were misses.

One of them he got fooled by the old fake student shot clock count trick.  He shot a beyond Nba range rushed 3 with 7 seconds left because he thought the clock was expiring.

Always an excuse……

Not many excuses needed for a player shooting a ridiculously high 41%.   

I want to lock you and him in a room and show you a 2 tapes worth of jumpshots.  Case in point the first two he took last night where he stepped into the shot.  As opposed to the other which was forced regardless of how much time 3 fans in attendance might have been chanting.

Carry on!

I'm confused.  Is your point that Mean Joe should only take a three point shot if it's "catch and shoot"?  If he has to dribble first he shouldn't take it?

Quote from: Moose on February 14, 2014, 02:26:56 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 14, 2014, 02:25:25 PM

Quote from: Moose on February 14, 2014, 02:13:20 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 14, 2014, 02:04:43 PM

Quote from: Dave on February 14, 2014, 01:14:29 AM

The story of Phil Greene tonight. He had 4 three point attempts and the two he made were set catch and shoot shots. The other 2 were off the bounce and were misses.

One of them he got fooled by the old fake student shot clock count trick.  He shot a beyond Nba range rushed 3 with 7 seconds left because he thought the clock was expiring.

Always an excuse……

Not many excuses needed for a player shooting a ridiculously high 41%.   

I want to lock you and him in a room and show you a 2 tapes worth of jumpshots.  Case in point the first two he took last night where he stepped into the shot.  As opposed to the other which was forced regardless of how much time 3 fans in attendance might have been chanting.

Carry on!

I'm confused.  Is your point that Mean Joe should only take a three point shot if it's "catch and shoot"?  If he has to dribble first he shouldn't take it?

Nothing to be confused about.  He might have grown up watch MJ fadeaways but MJ he is not.  When he gets the pass square and step into the shot.  When he has the ball himself same thing.  Or dribble and step into.  He has a bad tendency to fadeaway.  Like Obekpa was doing on the FT line which he now stopped.  *I think they are roomies.  Maybe they practice fadeaways on the nerf hoop in the apartment

Moose...that goes for any shooter.  I think Sampson is the biggest culprit.  Would love to know his difference in shooting percentage from when he steps into his shot versus fade away or off balance. 

Quote from: Needs2go on February 14, 2014, 03:54:14 PM

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Well last year Greene and Branch had the same shooting %.

Do not compare Greene to Branch because Greene is a much better ballplayer.  No comparison what so ever. 

Okay, as Greene's #2 fan and a big fan of Branch, I feel I need to step in.  Greene is  a great set shooter and he has a ton of offensive potential off the ball.  I love his floater, he can take it to the whole nicely when it's there,  never turns it over, etc.   But Branch gives this team a whole different look.  The ball moves so much better with him in the game.  He's not a good shooter, but he's not Dom either.   His shot actually looks pretty decent.  He's very good on the break and in secondary transition.  I'm all for him taking it to the hole any play in the half court...his biggest problem is he lack aggression. 

Both players are very important going forward.  If we continue to see zones or  packed in man-to-man, Greene will be need ed to take 8-10 jumpers .  When we have Jordan-Branch-Harrison on the floor...that is legit threats to drive and three guys that can catch the ball stress the D and move it to someone in a better situation...two or three of those and you have an open shot. 

Good post...both certainly bring value...Greene is very good at catch and shoot and teardrops...thankfully his time running the point has been limited..now we need to avoid him running fast breaks and attempt to finish at the rim for which he is too soft

Moose...that goes for any shooter.  I think Sampson is the biggest culprit.  Would love to know his difference in shooting percentage from when he steps into his shot versus fade away or off balance. 

Karr does it a lot too.  No question about it.  But taller plays do get away with it more.

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 15, 2014, 01:45:37 AM

Quote from: Moose on February 14, 2014, 02:26:56 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 14, 2014, 02:25:25 PM

Quote from: Moose on February 14, 2014, 02:13:20 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 14, 2014, 02:04:43 PM

Quote from: Dave on February 14, 2014, 01:14:29 AM

The story of Phil Greene tonight. He had 4 three point attempts and the two he made were set catch and shoot shots. The other 2 were off the bounce and were misses.

One of them he got fooled by the old fake student shot clock count trick.  He shot a beyond Nba range rushed 3 with 7 seconds left because he thought the clock was expiring.

Always an excuse……

Not many excuses needed for a player shooting a ridiculously high 41%.   

I want to lock you and him in a room and show you a 2 tapes worth of jumpshots.  Case in point the first two he took last night where he stepped into the shot.  As opposed to the other which was forced regardless of how much time 3 fans in attendance might have been chanting.

Carry on!

I'm confused.  Is your point that Mean Joe should only take a three point shot if it's "catch and shoot"?  If he has to dribble first he shouldn't take it?

Nothing to be confused about.  He might have grown up watch MJ fadeaways but MJ he is not.  When he gets the pass square and step into the shot.  When he has the ball himself same thing.  Or dribble and step into.  He has a bad tendency to fadeaway.  Like Obekpa was doing on the FT line which he now stopped.  *I think they are roomies.  Maybe they practice fadeaways on the nerf hoop in the apartment

I hadn't noticed that.  I'll watch for it.

Quote from: Moose on February 14, 2014, 02:26:56 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 14, 2014, 02:25:25 PM

Quote from: Moose on February 14, 2014, 02:13:20 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 14, 2014, 02:04:43 PM

Quote from: Dave on February 14, 2014, 01:14:29 AM

The story of Phil Greene tonight. He had 4 three point attempts and the two he made were set catch and shoot shots. The other 2 were off the bounce and were misses.

One of them he got fooled by the old fake student shot clock count trick.  He shot a beyond Nba range rushed 3 with 7 seconds left because he thought the clock was expiring.

Always an excuse……

Not many excuses needed for a player shooting a ridiculously high 41%.   

I want to lock you and him in a room and show you a 2 tapes worth of jumpshots.  Case in point the first two he took last night where he stepped into the shot.  As opposed to the other which was forced regardless of how much time 3 fans in attendance might have been chanting.

Carry on!

I'm confused.  Is your point that Mean Joe should only take a three point shot if it's "catch and shoot"?  If he has to dribble first he shouldn't take it?

This goes for nearly every player in the country.  I always wondered why a lot of coaches didn't take a Money ball kind of approach with #s.  They would never allow certain players to take shots in situations if they did.  Your boy Avery Peterson was the poster child for this. I actually like Peterson and think he would be huge on this team, but Roberts let him do whatever he wanted.  He was probably over 50% from deep with his feet set or curling of a screen with no dribble.  I'd bet he was in the teens off the bounce.

D'Lo is one of the rare kids I would let shoot off the bounce, but I would never want him to make a habit of it--except in transition because I love the pullup three. That kid makes some really difficult midrange shots  on the move look really easy.  I'd let Phil take that step back midrange, but not from three.