LIU Game Discussion

  • 134 replies
  • 10072 views
Re: LIU Game Discussion
« Reply #120 on: November 20, 2014, 03:36:54 PM »
Dom is an excellent athlete who is a very good defender with below average discipline. There are things Dom can do many others can't. Calling him a poor defender is ludicrous.

There are aspects of team defense that Dom struggles in and you can't down play how big a factor having below average discipline impacts the team defense. Due to his length and athleticism, he's a great disruptor when played on top of the key. However, he struggles to keep his man in front of him which breaks down the integrity of any defense. He struggles in his spacing, not being in position to help on dribble drives. He struggles in his court awareness, eyes on ball and man. He struggles with his rebounding, not boxing out. He struggles on his rotations, not helping the helper or being late. He struggles in his recovery, not getting back out to his man on the perimeter. Dom can do many things others can't, but if he doesn't actually do it, does it really matter? Quantify what Dom does well that makes him a very good team defender.

This is getting ridiculous. Your above post is basically saying Dom struggles in every aspect of playing team defense, which simply isn't true. Dom probably leads the team in steals and blocks outside of Obekpa since he's been at SJU and that has to count for something. I think you are severely exaggerating his lapses in terms of team defense. Does he lack discipline? yes. He often gambles or will get beat off the dribble. But, he's a very good defender. He many times makes up for getting beat by blocking the shot. I'll even give you he's overrated if that makes you feel better. But if you're saying Dom Pointer is a bad defender, you are basicially saying he's not worthy of even being on a BE roster because he sure as hell isn't getting playing time for his brilliant offensive skills.

Nearly every poster on this board has said in the past that Obekpa is an excellent shot blocker but not a good defender. He has improved. So the same can be said for Dom Pointer. Giving him credit for being a good defender because he gets steals and blocks is similar to the argument people make for Phil Greene being a good ball handler simply because he doesn't turn the ball over.  Phil doesn't turn the ball over because he rarely tries to make plays for his teammates. Dom gets steals and blocks because he gambles on defense.

Blocking shots and getting steals are a pretty big part of being a good defender. I had even said back when people were calling out Obekpa's defense, he was still an amazing defender even when sometimes he got bullied a bit when the player had his back to him. Blocking that many shots makes you an incredible defender even if your post up defense is a bit below average. Now, you can say "Dom is a very good defender but there are couple areas where he struggles," but you have been rather adamant to say he is not even a good defender, which I think is ridiculous.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 03:40:10 PM by redstorm212 »

Re: LIU Game Discussion
« Reply #121 on: November 20, 2014, 03:40:31 PM »
Dom is an excellent athlete who is a very good defender with below average discipline. There are things Dom can do many others can't. Calling him a poor defender is ludicrous.

There are aspects of team defense that Dom struggles in and you can't down play how big a factor having below average discipline impacts the team defense. Due to his length and athleticism, he's a great disruptor when played on top of the key. However, he struggles to keep his man in front of him which breaks down the integrity of any defense. He struggles in his spacing, not being in position to help on dribble drives. He struggles in his court awareness, eyes on ball and man. He struggles with his rebounding, not boxing out. He struggles on his rotations, not helping the helper or being late. He struggles in his recovery, not getting back out to his man on the perimeter. Dom can do many things others can't, but if he doesn't actually do it, does it really matter? Quantify what Dom does well that makes him a very good team defender.

This is getting ridiculous. Your above post is basically saying Dom struggles in every aspect of playing team defense, which simply isn't true. Dom probably leads the team in steals and blocks outside of Obekpa since he's been at SJU and that has to count for something. I think you are severely exaggerating his lapses in terms of team defense. Does he lack discipline? yes. He often gambles or will get beat off the dribble. But, he's a very good defender. He many times makes up for getting beat by blocking the shot. I'll even give you he's overrated if that makes you feel better. But if you're saying Dom Pointer is a bad defender, you are basicially saying he's not worthy of even being on a BE roster because he sure as hell isn't getting playing time for his brilliant offensive skills.

Nearly every poster on this board has said in the past that Obekpa is an excellent shot blocker but not a good defender. He has improved. So the same can be said for Dom Pointer. Giving him credit for being a good defender because he gets steals and blocks is similar to the argument people make for Phil Greene being a good ball handler simply because he doesn't turn the ball over.  Phil doesn't turn the ball over because he rarely tries to make plays for his teammates. Dom gets steals and blocks because he gambles on defense.

Blocking shots and getting steals are a pretty big part of being a good defender.

I am talking on ball defense.

terrible, bad, average, good, great.  Where do you rate him?
*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

SJUFAN

  • *****
  • 2280
Re: LIU Game Discussion
« Reply #122 on: November 20, 2014, 03:43:30 PM »
Dom is an excellent athlete who is a very good defender with below average discipline. There are things Dom can do many others can't. Calling him a poor defender is ludicrous.

There are aspects of team defense that Dom struggles in and you can't down play how big a factor having below average discipline impacts the team defense. Due to his length and athleticism, he's a great disruptor when played on top of the key. However, he struggles to keep his man in front of him which breaks down the integrity of any defense. He struggles in his spacing, not being in position to help on dribble drives. He struggles in his court awareness, eyes on ball and man. He struggles with his rebounding, not boxing out. He struggles on his rotations, not helping the helper or being late. He struggles in his recovery, not getting back out to his man on the perimeter. Dom can do many things others can't, but if he doesn't actually do it, does it really matter? Quantify what Dom does well that makes him a very good team defender.

This is getting ridiculous. Your above post is basically saying Dom struggles in every aspect of playing team defense, which simply isn't true. Dom probably leads the team in steals and blocks outside of Obekpa since he's been at SJU and that has to count for something. I think you are severely exaggerating his lapses in terms of team defense. Does he lack discipline? yes. He often gambles or will get beat off the dribble. But, he's a very good defender. He many times makes up for getting beat by blocking the shot. I'll even give you he's overrated if that makes you feel better. But if you're saying Dom Pointer is a bad defender, you are basicially saying he's not worthy of even being on a BE roster because he sure as hell isn't getting playing time for his brilliant offensive skills.

I'm not saying he is bad, I'm just pointing out why imo he isn't very good. He has the ability to be very good, he just hasn't proved it thus far. Hope he does this year because we will need it. 

Re: LIU Game Discussion
« Reply #123 on: November 20, 2014, 03:45:45 PM »
Dom is an excellent athlete who is a very good defender with below average discipline. There are things Dom can do many others can't. Calling him a poor defender is ludicrous.

There are aspects of team defense that Dom struggles in and you can't down play how big a factor having below average discipline impacts the team defense. Due to his length and athleticism, he's a great disruptor when played on top of the key. However, he struggles to keep his man in front of him which breaks down the integrity of any defense. He struggles in his spacing, not being in position to help on dribble drives. He struggles in his court awareness, eyes on ball and man. He struggles with his rebounding, not boxing out. He struggles on his rotations, not helping the helper or being late. He struggles in his recovery, not getting back out to his man on the perimeter. Dom can do many things others can't, but if he doesn't actually do it, does it really matter? Quantify what Dom does well that makes him a very good team defender.

This is getting ridiculous. Your above post is basically saying Dom struggles in every aspect of playing team defense, which simply isn't true. Dom probably leads the team in steals and blocks outside of Obekpa since he's been at SJU and that has to count for something. I think you are severely exaggerating his lapses in terms of team defense. Does he lack discipline? yes. He often gambles or will get beat off the dribble. But, he's a very good defender. He many times makes up for getting beat by blocking the shot. I'll even give you he's overrated if that makes you feel better. But if you're saying Dom Pointer is a bad defender, you are basicially saying he's not worthy of even being on a BE roster because he sure as hell isn't getting playing time for his brilliant offensive skills.

Nearly every poster on this board has said in the past that Obekpa is an excellent shot blocker but not a good defender. He has improved. So the same can be said for Dom Pointer. Giving him credit for being a good defender because he gets steals and blocks is similar to the argument people make for Phil Greene being a good ball handler simply because he doesn't turn the ball over.  Phil doesn't turn the ball over because he rarely tries to make plays for his teammates. Dom gets steals and blocks because he gambles on defense.

Blocking shots and getting steals are a pretty big part of being a good defender.

I am talking on ball defense.

terrible, bad, average, good, great.  Where do you rate him?

I think if we're just talking on ball defense I'd rate Dom as a good on ball defender. Definitely not "bad." But Dom has been called out on this thread for much more than just his on ball defense.

Re: LIU Game Discussion
« Reply #124 on: November 20, 2014, 03:52:49 PM »
Dom is an excellent athlete who is a very good defender with below average discipline. There are things Dom can do many others can't. Calling him a poor defender is ludicrous.

There are aspects of team defense that Dom struggles in and you can't down play how big a factor having below average discipline impacts the team defense. Due to his length and athleticism, he's a great disruptor when played on top of the key. However, he struggles to keep his man in front of him which breaks down the integrity of any defense. He struggles in his spacing, not being in position to help on dribble drives. He struggles in his court awareness, eyes on ball and man. He struggles with his rebounding, not boxing out. He struggles on his rotations, not helping the helper or being late. He struggles in his recovery, not getting back out to his man on the perimeter. Dom can do many things others can't, but if he doesn't actually do it, does it really matter? Quantify what Dom does well that makes him a very good team defender.

This is getting ridiculous. Your above post is basically saying Dom struggles in every aspect of playing team defense, which simply isn't true. Dom probably leads the team in steals and blocks outside of Obekpa since he's been at SJU and that has to count for something. I think you are severely exaggerating his lapses in terms of team defense. Does he lack discipline? yes. He often gambles or will get beat off the dribble. But, he's a very good defender. He many times makes up for getting beat by blocking the shot. I'll even give you he's overrated if that makes you feel better. But if you're saying Dom Pointer is a bad defender, you are basicially saying he's not worthy of even being on a BE roster because he sure as hell isn't getting playing time for his brilliant offensive skills.

Nearly every poster on this board has said in the past that Obekpa is an excellent shot blocker but not a good defender. He has improved. So the same can be said for Dom Pointer. Giving him credit for being a good defender because he gets steals and blocks is similar to the argument people make for Phil Greene being a good ball handler simply because he doesn't turn the ball over.  Phil doesn't turn the ball over because he rarely tries to make plays for his teammates. Dom gets steals and blocks because he gambles on defense.

Blocking shots and getting steals are a pretty big part of being a good defender.

I am talking on ball defense.

terrible, bad, average, good, great.  Where do you rate him?

I think if we're just talking on ball defense I'd rate Dom as a good on ball defender. Definitely not "bad." But Dom has been called out on this thread for much more than just his on ball defense.

Fair enough. This is where I stand. Dom is a very good weak side shot blocker, he is good at jumping passing lanes, and he is bad at keeping his own man from being effective. My philosophy on half court defense is to contain, not be overly agressive.  If everyone is good at on ball defense (keeping your man in front of you and out of the paint), then your need for help defense is small, dont get beat=dont need help. Of course that is in a perfect world and there will always be times where guys do get beat. Unfortunately for us that happens more times than not.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 03:54:12 PM by Amaseinyourface2 »
*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

desco80

  • *****
  • 5072
Re: LIU Game Discussion
« Reply #125 on: November 20, 2014, 03:54:34 PM »
I'd have to agree, in terms of guarding a ball-handler, Dom is at best "poor".    He simply can't stay in front of his man.       
I wish this weren't true, but that's what I've seen time and again from him.   

Re: LIU Game Discussion
« Reply #126 on: November 20, 2014, 04:00:44 PM »
He road the pine last year for a reason, and it wasn't just because of his offensive ineptitude.   

Well I can personally guarantee you that he is not going to ride the pine this season.  Barring injury or unforeseen circumstance, we crystal clearly have 6 players who will see the bulk of the minutes. Dom is one of them. Even Hollywood's...now let me find the right word...er..."creativity" with regard to lineups and substitution patterns will change that. Lavs himself said in one of the pressers that 6 are ahead of the rest and will play the majority of minutes.

We are 3 games into the real season and Sir with Love is 1st on the team in steals; 2nd in block shots; and unrelated to defense has a stellar asst/turnover ratio and field and free throw shooting percentages.

Yes, the competition is about to get significantly more difficult.  But I was here during the David Cain era.  Sometimes the light can go on for a senior that has shown nothing or something but in inconsistent spurts.

Why not Dom???

Re: LIU Game Discussion
« Reply #127 on: November 20, 2014, 04:51:49 PM »
I don't think anyone said he was a bad defender.

I think Dom Pointer is a bad on ball defender, and it is highlighted more so because of the praise he gets for being a stud one.

He is a sloppy defender, turns his head goes for fakes, always going for steals and blocks. I wouldn't say he is a bad defender like say Phil Greene.

Re: LIU Game Discussion
« Reply #128 on: November 20, 2014, 05:27:55 PM »
For those that wish to tie in remarks to stats. Yes, doesn't tell entire story, but some context cannot hurt.  Good to compare Dom's improvement/drop off depending on what we're looking at;


http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/st-johns/sir-dominic-pointer

Marillac

  • *****
  • 11224
Re: LIU Game Discussion
« Reply #129 on: November 20, 2014, 07:35:20 PM »
Dom is an excellent athlete who is a very good defender with below average discipline. There are things Dom can do many others can't. Calling him a poor defender is ludicrous.

There are aspects of team defense that Dom struggles in and you can't down play how big a factor having below average discipline impacts the team defense. Due to his length and athleticism, he's a great disruptor when played on top of the key. However, he struggles to keep his man in front of him which breaks down the integrity of any defense. He struggles in his spacing, not being in position to help on dribble drives. He struggles in his court awareness, eyes on ball and man. He struggles with his rebounding, not boxing out. He struggles on his rotations, not helping the helper or being late. He struggles in his recovery, not getting back out to his man on the perimeter. Dom can do many things others can't, but if he doesn't actually do it, does it really matter? Quantify what Dom does well that makes him a very good team defender.

This is getting ridiculous. Your above post is basically saying Dom struggles in every aspect of playing team defense, which simply isn't true. Dom probably leads the team in steals and blocks outside of Obekpa since he's been at SJU and that has to count for something. I think you are severely exaggerating his lapses in terms of team defense. Does he lack discipline? yes. He often gambles or will get beat off the dribble. But, he's a very good defender. He many times makes up for getting beat by blocking the shot. I'll even give you he's overrated if that makes you feel better. But if you're saying Dom Pointer is a bad defender, you are basicially saying he's not worthy of even being on a BE roster because he sure as hell isn't getting playing time for his brilliant offensive skills.

Nearly every poster on this board has said in the past that Obekpa is an excellent shot blocker but not a good defender. He has improved. So the same can be said for Dom Pointer. Giving him credit for being a good defender because he gets steals and blocks is similar to the argument people make for Phil Greene being a good ball handler simply because he doesn't turn the ball over.  Phil doesn't turn the ball over because he rarely tries to make plays for his teammates. Dom gets steals and blocks because he gambles on defense.

Blocking shots and getting steals are a pretty big part of being a good defender.

I am talking on ball defense.

terrible, bad, average, good, great.  Where do you rate him?

Average. Nobody can reasonably rate him better than that on the ball.  He gets baked all the time off the bounce and is really bad at fighting through screens. To be fair, though, he is often covering the opposition's best scorer and typically that is a smaller, quicker guard.  I like him a lot more on SFs and even smaller PFs in the post.  He has the tools and the time to realize his potential as a versatile lock-down defender this season. 

Off the ball is a different story.  This is where he is both at his worst and his best.  His biggest problem--shared by many on this team--is straying too far from his man when they don't have the ball.  All you have to do is reverse the ball once or get it inside, run a man over to chip Dom when he takes too many steps away from his man, and kick it to his man for an open set three.  Then again, he is also at his best jumping passing lanes for steals/deflections and he is really, really good at coming from behind to block shots at the rim.  He needs to learn who he can cheat off of and who he needs to stay close to.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 09:02:24 PM by Marillac »

Re: LIU Game Discussion
« Reply #130 on: November 20, 2014, 07:39:35 PM »
I wouldn't say he is a bad defender like say Phil Greene.

If triangle is a bad defender,  why is he often asked to guard players like Cotton and Archidiacomo in late game situations in which the whole building knows they're going to take the big shot?

Re: LIU Game Discussion
« Reply #131 on: November 20, 2014, 08:09:26 PM »
I wouldn't say he is a bad defender like say Phil Greene.

If triangle is a bad defender,  why is he often asked to guard players like Cotton and Archidiacomo in late game situations in which the whole building knows they're going to take the big shot?

Geometry jokes and point guard play aside his D is awful and it looks like he is trying not to guard his guy. Remember your he does not foul thread. That pretty much sums it up.

Re: LIU Game Discussion
« Reply #132 on: November 20, 2014, 08:36:35 PM »
I'd have to agree, in terms of guarding a ball-handler, Dom is at best "poor".    He simply can't stay in front of his man.       
I wish this weren't true, but that's what I've seen time and again from him.   

I think Dom sees his role as the guy who needs to "make something happen"...If you could see the bubble above his head, it would say something like " I got to steal this ball" rather than focusing on solid, "between your man and the basket" defense...Yes, he compensates, at times, with highlight reel blocks or steals but more often, than not, his man gets the jump on him and the defense breaks down...BTW, this is the case with everyone but Jordan (our only player who seems to strive to beat his man to the next spot
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 08:37:13 PM by section3 »

Foad

  • *****
  • 6065
Re: LIU Game Discussion
« Reply #133 on: November 20, 2014, 08:42:03 PM »
Dom is an excellent athlete who is a very good defender with below average discipline. There are things Dom can do many others can't. Calling him a poor defender is ludicrous.

There are aspects of team defense that Dom struggles in and you can't down play how big a factor having below average discipline impacts the team defense. Due to his length and athleticism, he's a great disruptor when played on top of the key. However, he struggles to keep his man in front of him which breaks down the integrity of any defense. He struggles in his spacing, not being in position to help on dribble drives. He struggles in his court awareness, eyes on ball and man. He struggles with his rebounding, not boxing out. He struggles on his rotations, not helping the helper or being late. He struggles in his recovery, not getting back out to his man on the perimeter. Dom can do many things others can't, but if he doesn't actually do it, does it really matter? Quantify what Dom does well that makes him a very good team defender.

This is getting ridiculous. Your above post is basically saying Dom struggles in every aspect of playing team defense, which simply isn't true. Dom probably leads the team in steals and blocks outside of Obekpa since he's been at SJU and that has to count for something. I think you are severely exaggerating his lapses in terms of team defense. Does he lack discipline? yes. He often gambles or will get beat off the dribble. But, he's a very good defender. He many times makes up for getting beat by blocking the shot. I'll even give you he's overrated if that makes you feel better. But if you're saying Dom Pointer is a bad defender, you are basicially saying he's not worthy of even being on a BE roster because he sure as hell isn't getting playing time for his brilliant offensive skills.

Nearly every poster on this board has said in the past that Obekpa is an excellent shot blocker but not a good defender. He has improved. So the same can be said for Dom Pointer. Giving him credit for being a good defender because he gets steals and blocks is similar to the argument people make for Phil Greene being a good ball handler simply because he doesn't turn the ball over.  Phil doesn't turn the ball over because he rarely tries to make plays for his teammates. Dom gets steals and blocks because he gambles on defense.

Dom is an excellent athlete who is a very good defender with below average discipline. There are things Dom can do many others can't. Calling him a poor defender is ludicrous.

There are aspects of team defense that Dom struggles in and you can't down play how big a factor having below average discipline impacts the team defense. Due to his length and athleticism, he's a great disruptor when played on top of the key. However, he struggles to keep his man in front of him which breaks down the integrity of any defense. He struggles in his spacing, not being in position to help on dribble drives. He struggles in his court awareness, eyes on ball and man. He struggles with his rebounding, not boxing out. He struggles on his rotations, not helping the helper or being late. He struggles in his recovery, not getting back out to his man on the perimeter. Dom can do many things others can't, but if he doesn't actually do it, does it really matter? Quantify what Dom does well that makes him a very good team defender.

This is getting ridiculous. Your above post is basically saying Dom struggles in every aspect of playing team defense, which simply isn't true. Dom probably leads the team in steals and blocks outside of Obekpa since he's been at SJU and that has to count for something. I think you are severely exaggerating his lapses in terms of team defense. Does he lack discipline? yes. He often gambles or will get beat off the dribble. But, he's a very good defender. He many times makes up for getting beat by blocking the shot. I'll even give you he's overrated if that makes you feel better. But if you're saying Dom Pointer is a bad defender, you are basicially saying he's not worthy of even being on a BE roster because he sure as hell isn't getting playing time for his brilliant offensive skills.

Nearly every poster on this board has said in the past that Obekpa is an excellent shot blocker but not a good defender. He has improved. So the same can be said for Dom Pointer. Giving him credit for being a good defender because he gets steals and blocks is similar to the argument people make for Phil Greene being a good ball handler simply because he doesn't turn the ball over.  Phil doesn't turn the ball over because he rarely tries to make plays for his teammates. Dom gets steals and blocks because he gambles on defense.

Blocking shots and getting steals are a pretty big part of being a good defender.

I am talking on ball defense.

terrible, bad, average, good, great.  Where do you rate him?
Average. Nobody can reasonably rate him better than that on the ball.  He gets baked all the time off the bounce and is really bad at fighting through screens. To be fair, though, he is often covering the opposition's best scorer and typically that is a smaller, quicker guard.  I like him a lot more on SFs and even smaller PFs in the post.  He has the tools and the time to realize his potential as a versatile lock-down defender this season. 

Off the ball is a different story.  This is where he is both at his worst and his best.  His biggest problem--shared by many on this team--is straying too far from his man when they don't have the ball.  All you have to do is reverse the ball once or get it inside, run a man over to chip Dom when he takes too many steps away from his man, and kick it to his man for an open set three.  Then again, he is also at his best jumping passing lanes for steals/deflections and he is really, really good at coming from behind to block shots at the rim.  He needs to learn who he can cheat off of and who he needs to stay close to. 

Post of the year

Re: LIU Game Discussion
« Reply #134 on: November 20, 2014, 11:44:00 PM »
I wouldn't say he is a bad defender like say Phil Greene.

If triangle is a bad defender,  why is he often asked to guard players like Cotton and Archidiacomo in late game situations in which the whole building knows they're going to take the big shot?

Geometry jokes and point guard play aside his D is awful and it looks like he is trying not to guard his guy. Remember your he does not foul thread. That pretty much sums it up.

His D is not awful and compared to Larry Wright...he's Gary Payton.