Slice

Quote from: prjohnnies on June 08, 2016, 10:52:14 AM

Is Matt A not supposed to land good recruits, because he is saving a slot for Slice to try and bring in an Alkins, Maker or Ferguson?

Yes you save a ship or two for the players Slice is after. That's what you brought him in for and I would think he's earned that right. Some of the players that Matt has brought in are nice pieces but you can find replacements for those players if landing a big fish doesn't pan out. Slice is not competing for top 150 talent, he's trying to land program changers, that takes time and many don't commit until the last minute. How does it look if your Slice and your putting in work on a top 25-50 player only to have your ship given to a top 150-200 player? I don't think that makes sense and is insulting. Don't see how anyone can think this is good for the program.

You do this IF you have a shot to land those players. It was so widely known that none of those players would come to St. John's or be eligible. It was a lot of fluff and waste of time/resources.

Quote from: SJUFAN on June 08, 2016, 11:38:07 AM

Quote from: prjohnnies on June 08, 2016, 10:52:14 AM

Is Matt A not supposed to land good recruits, because he is saving a slot for Slice to try and bring in an Alkins, Maker or Ferguson?

Yes you save a ship or two for the players Slice is after. That's what you brought him in for and I would think he's earned that right. Some of the players that Matt has brought in are nice pieces but you can find replacements for those players if landing a big fish doesn't pan out. Slice is not competing for top 150 talent, he's trying to land program changers, that takes time and many don't commit until the last minute. How does it look if your Slice and your putting in work on a top 25-50 player only to have your ship given to a top 150-200 player? I don't think that makes sense and is insulting. Don't see how anyone can think this is good for the program.

Nail on head

What 150-200 ranked player has Matt brought in? First year aside, when there was plenty of room for Barry to do his thing, the fact is, he didn't. Plenty of reasons why that could have been the case, but the fact remains, he added no one. I don't buy this we stink crap, so give him time. That's a cop out.

This is what I don't get from the comments by SJUFAN, Baldi and others.  When did we refuse to keep a ship open for one of the big fish Slice was recruiting this past year?  We lost Herron before anyone popped.  There was always a ship for Alkins or Thon.  And there would have been one for Ferguson if he was interested and had a chance at qualifying.

And as true with every program, if a few top 2017 kids want to attend SJU two falls from now, you can bet that there will be room.

Quote from: SJUFAN on June 08, 2016, 11:38:07 AM

Quote from: prjohnnies on June 08, 2016, 10:52:14 AM

Is Matt A not supposed to land good recruits, because he is saving a slot for Slice to try and bring in an Alkins, Maker or Ferguson?

Yes you save a ship or two for the players Slice is after. That's what you brought him in for and I would think he's earned that right. Some of the players that Matt has brought in are nice pieces but you can find replacements for those players if landing a big fish doesn't pan out. Slice is not competing for top 150 talent, he's trying to land program changers, that takes time and many don't commit until the last minute. How does it look if your Slice and your putting in work on a top 25-50 player only to have your ship given to a top 150-200 player? I don't think that makes sense and is insulting. Don't see how anyone can think this is good for the program.

You do this IF you have a shot to land those players. It was so widely known that none of those players would come to St. John's or be eligible. It was a lot of fluff and waste of time/resources.

Reading between the lines of the Zac article...twelve months ago CM started assembling a staff. He knew he needed recruiters and he needed X and O guys. Matt A, an SJU grad who knew Chris, was an obvious choice for recruiting. St Jean, more of an unknown, might have been brought in due to CM's relationship with his father, or maybe he interviewed really well from an X and O perspective. CM looked at Slice as one who were be given preference to do both, why else bring him in?

As time went by, St Jean earned more of CM's trust as an X and O; Matt earned more of CM's trust as a recruiter. As an older guy, Slice said to himself, "what am I doing here playing second fiddle in recruiting and strategy"? Slice is taking his bruised ego down the road, possibly to more familiar pastures. Much like the veteran ballplayer being replaced by the younger prospect.

I always preferred a more experienced X and O guy. Some one with in game coaching experience. Dunlap would be perfect, Tim Welsh, Pete Gillen have been mentioned. I also threw Mark Jackson out there. Just give us someone who can work strategy, especially teach defense, and has college coaching experience.

Slice was brought in to recruit  top players, the  head coach is supposed to be the closer. We couldn't close on the top guys, so we get maybe 2nd, 3rd, 4thtier players along with some local talent.  All well and fine if we had a proven staff with some in game coaching under their belts. That philosophy works if you have a Jay Wright on the bench, which we don't. IMO, we take a huge step back losing Our home run hitter on the recruiting trail.

Can the staff coach up the transfers, jucos and lower tier talent to get us where we want to be? Hope so.

Slice was brought in to recruit  top players, the  head coach is supposed to be the closer. We couldn't close on the top guys, so we get maybe 2nd, 3rd, 4thtier players along with some local talent.  All well and fine if we had a proven staff with some in game coaching under their belts. That philosophy works if you have a Jay Wright on the bench, which we don't. IMO, we take a huge step back losing Our home run hitter on the recruiting trail.

Can the staff coach up the transfers, jucos and lower tier talent to get us where we want to be? Hope so.

+1000

Slice was brought in to recruit  top players, the  head coach is supposed to be the closer. We couldn't close on the top guys, so we get maybe 2nd, 3rd, 4thtier players along with some local talent.  All well and fine if we had a proven staff with some in game coaching under their belts. That philosophy works if you have a Jay Wright on the bench, which we don't. IMO, we take a huge step back losing Our home run hitter on the recruiting trail.

Can the staff coach up the transfers, jucos and lower tier talent to get us where we want to be? Hope so.

Lower tier talent?  Ponds and Lovett are legit consensus top 50/40 guards, Yakwe was a top 50 (he was ranked 100 for class of 2016 but was set for a HUGE jump after he won MVP at Peach Jam but then reclassified so it was too late to rank him for 2015).  Ahmed was arguably the top JUCO player in the country.

If Slice was brought here to land Brandon Ingram or Jamaal Murray or Rawle Alkins that's fine.  But be clear almost no one on a consistent basis in the BE lands that talent including Villanova.  You're essentially arguing Slice was brought here to bring in Kentucky or Duke type recruits when no one in the BE lands that type of class to begin with.  If SJU needs that type of talent to win consistently in the BE (in other words beat people like Wojo, Willard, Letaio, McDermott, Mack etc) then Mullin should have NEVER been hired.

I am not suggesting that Slice could not have been valuable, but recruiting is relative.  And relative to everyone else in the BE SJU is doing better than just about all of them.

Crying out loud stop acting SJU landed MAAC talent.  Go look at the rating of their backcourt, name me another BE backcourt with an average recruiting ranking better than Ponds and Lovett?

And there it is.

Shocked Baldi you are turning on our young kids already.  Talent at the freshman and soph level is as good as it has been since Lavin's second year.

Calipari and Kentucky survived before and after Slice. 

It was easy for that school to land names, so it's not Slice.  He had some good players at Pitt, but I don't think he was reeling in so may top players that he gets put on as pedestal.   Heck, if SJU paid attention during those years maybe some of this NYC to Pitt pipeline would have stayed local. 

We'll survive and improve this year... without Slice. 

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 08, 2016, 08:36:38 PM

Slice was brought in to recruit  top players, the  head coach is supposed to be the closer. We couldn't close on the top guys, so we get maybe 2nd, 3rd, 4thtier players along with some local talent.  All well and fine if we had a proven staff with some in game coaching under their belts. That philosophy works if you have a Jay Wright on the bench, which we don't. IMO, we take a huge step back losing Our home run hitter on the recruiting trail.

Can the staff coach up the transfers, jucos and lower tier talent to get us where we want to be? Hope so.

Lower tier talent?  Ponds and Lovett are legit consensus top 50/40 guards, Yakwe was a top 50 (he was ranked 100 for class of 2016 but was set for a HUGE jump after he won MVP at Peach Jam but then reclassified so it was too late to rank him for 2015).  Ahmed was arguably the top JUCO player in the country.

If Slice was brought here to land Brandon Ingram or Jamaal Murray or Rawle Alkins that's fine.  But be clear almost no one on a consistent basis in the BE lands that talent including Villanova.  You're essentially arguing Slice was brought here to bring in Kentucky or Duke type recruits when no one in the BE lands that type of class to begin with.  If SJU needs that type of talent to win consistently in the BE (in other words beat people like Wojo, Willard, Letaio, McDermott, Mack etc) then Mullin should have NEVER been hired.

I am not suggesting that Slice could not have been valuable, but recruiting is relative.  And relative to everyone else in the BE SJU is doing better than just about all of them.

Crying out loud stop acting SJU landed MAAC talent.  Go look at the rating of their backcourt, name me another BE backcourt with an average recruiting ranking better than Ponds and Lovett?

Who did we beat out for Lovett and Ponds?

And actually Ahmed originally was to go to IONA, so Ya St John's did land MAAC talent. Some are saying he will be the best player on the team

And there it is.

Shocked Baldi you are turning on our young kids already.  Talent at the freshman and soph level is as good as it has been since Lavin's second year.

How did I turn on the young players?

Ahmed was early with Iona as he was a acedmic risk back then. After juco he visited Texas and Shaka and to beat them out is no small task.

Bummed about losing Slice but to be honest, Sju has been a dead end job for so long not sure we will ever recover. The 80s are over and in this new landscape we have been gross for so long.

You are calling the kids we have brought in second/third tier players. There are a handful who are either lock or borderline top 50. I don't consider that second tier. I thought you were pleased with the recruiting to date and roster next season. I get you don't like Matt A and that you were a Slice fan (so am I), but I am happy with the program's direction even with him leaving.

Pretty sure most of the kids Slice landed at Pitt, especially from the NYC area, were not the likes (out of HS) as a Rawle or Thon. We get this going in a year or two and we will have a chance at landing the occasional MCD's kid. Programs are built on the type of kids we are getting.

Quote from: prjohnnies on June 08, 2016, 09:06:53 PM

And there it is.

Shocked Baldi you are turning on our young kids already.  Talent at the freshman and soph level is as good as it has been since Lavin's second year.

How did I turn on the young players?

Quote from: fordham96 on June 08, 2016, 08:56:52 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 08, 2016, 08:36:38 PM

Slice was brought in to recruit  top players, the  head coach is supposed to be the closer. We couldn't close on the top guys, so we get maybe 2nd, 3rd, 4thtier players along with some local talent.  All well and fine if we had a proven staff with some in game coaching under their belts. That philosophy works if you have a Jay Wright on the bench, which we don't. IMO, we take a huge step back losing Our home run hitter on the recruiting trail.

Can the staff coach up the transfers, jucos and lower tier talent to get us where we want to be? Hope so.

Lower tier talent?  Ponds and Lovett are legit consensus top 50/40 guards, Yakwe was a top 50 (he was ranked 100 for class of 2016 but was set for a HUGE jump after he won MVP at Peach Jam but then reclassified so it was too late to rank him for 2015).  Ahmed was arguably the top JUCO player in the country.

If Slice was brought here to land Brandon Ingram or Jamaal Murray or Rawle Alkins that's fine.  But be clear almost no one on a consistent basis in the BE lands that talent including Villanova.  You're essentially arguing Slice was brought here to bring in Kentucky or Duke type recruits when no one in the BE lands that type of class to begin with.  If SJU needs that type of talent to win consistently in the BE (in other words beat people like Wojo, Willard, Letaio, McDermott, Mack etc) then Mullin should have NEVER been hired.

I am not suggesting that Slice could not have been valuable, but recruiting is relative.  And relative to everyone else in the BE SJU is doing better than just about all of them.

Crying out loud stop acting SJU landed MAAC talent.  Go look at the rating of their backcourt, name me another BE backcourt with an average recruiting ranking better than Ponds and Lovett?

Who did we beat out for Lovett and Ponds?

And actually Ahmed originally was to go to IONA, so Ya St John's did land MAAC talent. Some are saying he will be the best player on the team

Plus wasn't the main recruiting dispute between Slice and Matt about a local kid who was ranked somewhere in the top 150 range?

You are calling the kids we have brought in second/third tier players. There are a handful who are either lock or borderline top 50. I don't consider that second tier. I thought you were pleased with the recruiting to date and roster next season. I get you don't like Matt A and that you were a Slice fan (so am I), but I am happy with the program's direction even with him leaving.

Pretty sure most of the kids Slice landed at Pitt, especially from the NYC area, were not the likes (out of HS) as a Rawle or Thon. We get this going in a year or two and we will have a chance at landing the occasional MCD's kid. Programs are built on the type of kids we are getting.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 08, 2016, 09:14:09 PM

Quote from: prjohnnies on June 08, 2016, 09:06:53 PM

And there it is.

Shocked Baldi you are turning on our young kids already.  Talent at the freshman and soph level is as good as it has been since Lavin's second year.

How did I turn on the young players?

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 08, 2016, 09:13:12 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on June 08, 2016, 08:56:52 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 08, 2016, 08:36:38 PM

Slice was brought in to recruit  top players, the  head coach is supposed to be the closer. We couldn't close on the top guys, so we get maybe 2nd, 3rd, 4thtier players along with some local talent.  All well and fine if we had a proven staff with some in game coaching under their belts. That philosophy works if you have a Jay Wright on the bench, which we don't. IMO, we take a huge step back losing Our home run hitter on the recruiting trail.

Can the staff coach up the transfers, jucos and lower tier talent to get us where we want to be? Hope so.

Lower tier talent?  Ponds and Lovett are legit consensus top 50/40 guards, Yakwe was a top 50 (he was ranked 100 for class of 2016 but was set for a HUGE jump after he won MVP at Peach Jam but then reclassified so it was too late to rank him for 2015).  Ahmed was arguably the top JUCO player in the country.

If Slice was brought here to land Brandon Ingram or Jamaal Murray or Rawle Alkins that's fine.  But be clear almost no one on a consistent basis in the BE lands that talent including Villanova.  You're essentially arguing Slice was brought here to bring in Kentucky or Duke type recruits when no one in the BE lands that type of class to begin with.  If SJU needs that type of talent to win consistently in the BE (in other words beat people like Wojo, Willard, Letaio, McDermott, Mack etc) then Mullin should have NEVER been hired.

I am not suggesting that Slice could not have been valuable, but recruiting is relative.  And relative to everyone else in the BE SJU is doing better than just about all of them.

Crying out loud stop acting SJU landed MAAC talent.  Go look at the rating of their backcourt, name me another BE backcourt with an average recruiting ranking better than Ponds and Lovett?

Who did we beat out for Lovett and Ponds?

And actually Ahmed originally was to go to IONA, so Ya St John's did land MAAC talent. Some are saying he will be the best player on the team

I think Baldi was more or less considering the mcdonalds kids the 1st tier

You are calling the kids we have brought in second/third tier players. There are a handful who are either lock or borderline top 50. I don't consider that second tier. I thought you were pleased with the recruiting to date and roster next season. I get you don't like Matt A and that you were a Slice fan (so am I), but I am happy with the program's direction even with him leaving.

Pretty sure most of the kids Slice landed at Pitt, especially from the NYC area, were not the likes (out of HS) as a Rawle or Thon. We get this going in a year or two and we will have a chance at landing the occasional MCD's kid. Programs are built on the type of kids we are getting.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 08, 2016, 09:14:09 PM

Quote from: prjohnnies on June 08, 2016, 09:06:53 PM

And there it is.

Shocked Baldi you are turning on our young kids already.  Talent at the freshman and soph level is as good as it has been since Lavin's second year.

How did I turn on the young players?

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 08, 2016, 09:13:12 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on June 08, 2016, 08:56:52 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 08, 2016, 08:36:38 PM

Slice was brought in to recruit  top players, the  head coach is supposed to be the closer. We couldn't close on the top guys, so we get maybe 2nd, 3rd, 4thtier players along with some local talent.  All well and fine if we had a proven staff with some in game coaching under their belts. That philosophy works if you have a Jay Wright on the bench, which we don't. IMO, we take a huge step back losing Our home run hitter on the recruiting trail.

Can the staff coach up the transfers, jucos and lower tier talent to get us where we want to be? Hope so.

Lower tier talent?  Ponds and Lovett are legit consensus top 50/40 guards, Yakwe was a top 50 (he was ranked 100 for class of 2016 but was set for a HUGE jump after he won MVP at Peach Jam but then reclassified so it was too late to rank him for 2015).  Ahmed was arguably the top JUCO player in the country.

If Slice was brought here to land Brandon Ingram or Jamaal Murray or Rawle Alkins that's fine.  But be clear almost no one on a consistent basis in the BE lands that talent including Villanova.  You're essentially arguing Slice was brought here to bring in Kentucky or Duke type recruits when no one in the BE lands that type of class to begin with.  If SJU needs that type of talent to win consistently in the BE (in other words beat people like Wojo, Willard, Letaio, McDermott, Mack etc) then Mullin should have NEVER been hired.

I am not suggesting that Slice could not have been valuable, but recruiting is relative.  And relative to everyone else in the BE SJU is doing better than just about all of them.

Crying out loud stop acting SJU landed MAAC talent.  Go look at the rating of their backcourt, name me another BE backcourt with an average recruiting ranking better than Ponds and Lovett?

Who did we beat out for Lovett and Ponds?

And actually Ahmed originally was to go to IONA, so Ya St John's did land MAAC talent. Some are saying he will be the best player on the team

Being called a 2nd or 3rd tier player is in no way a put down. Like I said, they can win championships with a Jay Wright staff.
Slice worked for a pretty damn good coach at Pitt when they were able to land the Levance Fields types from NY. They were coached up

Plus wasn't the main recruiting dispute between Slice and Matt about a local kid who was ranked somewhere in the top 150 range?

Tip of the iceberg

I mean let's be real, this is more likely than not very bad for the program. That being said, I'm content with the recruiting approach we took. Of Slice's main targets in his only year here, maker skipped college, hearing rumors that ferguson may now be skipping college as well, and even alkins probably wouldn't have qualified if he had committed.

still not good and a PR disaster. doesn't shine the school in the right light.

Quote from: prjohnnies on June 08, 2016, 09:52:32 PM

You are calling the kids we have brought in second/third tier players. There are a handful who are either lock or borderline top 50. I don't consider that second tier. I thought you were pleased with the recruiting to date and roster next season. I get you don't like Matt A and that you were a Slice fan (so am I), but I am happy with the program's direction even with him leaving.

Pretty sure most of the kids Slice landed at Pitt, especially from the NYC area, were not the likes (out of HS) as a Rawle or Thon. We get this going in a year or two and we will have a chance at landing the occasional MCD's kid. Programs are built on the type of kids we are getting.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 08, 2016, 09:14:09 PM

Quote from: prjohnnies on June 08, 2016, 09:06:53 PM

And there it is.

Shocked Baldi you are turning on our young kids already.  Talent at the freshman and soph level is as good as it has been since Lavin's second year.

How did I turn on the young players?

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 08, 2016, 09:13:12 PM

Quote from: fordham96 on June 08, 2016, 08:56:52 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on June 08, 2016, 08:36:38 PM

Slice was brought in to recruit  top players, the  head coach is supposed to be the closer. We couldn't close on the top guys, so we get maybe 2nd, 3rd, 4thtier players along with some local talent.  All well and fine if we had a proven staff with some in game coaching under their belts. That philosophy works if you have a Jay Wright on the bench, which we don't. IMO, we take a huge step back losing Our home run hitter on the recruiting trail.

Can the staff coach up the transfers, jucos and lower tier talent to get us where we want to be? Hope so.

Lower tier talent?  Ponds and Lovett are legit consensus top 50/40 guards, Yakwe was a top 50 (he was ranked 100 for class of 2016 but was set for a HUGE jump after he won MVP at Peach Jam but then reclassified so it was too late to rank him for 2015).  Ahmed was arguably the top JUCO player in the country.

If Slice was brought here to land Brandon Ingram or Jamaal Murray or Rawle Alkins that's fine.  But be clear almost no one on a consistent basis in the BE lands that talent including Villanova.  You're essentially arguing Slice was brought here to bring in Kentucky or Duke type recruits when no one in the BE lands that type of class to begin with.  If SJU needs that type of talent to win consistently in the BE (in other words beat people like Wojo, Willard, Letaio, McDermott, Mack etc) then Mullin should have NEVER been hired.

I am not suggesting that Slice could not have been valuable, but recruiting is relative.  And relative to everyone else in the BE SJU is doing better than just about all of them.

Crying out loud stop acting SJU landed MAAC talent.  Go look at the rating of their backcourt, name me another BE backcourt with an average recruiting ranking better than Ponds and Lovett?

Who did we beat out for Lovett and Ponds?

And actually Ahmed originally was to go to IONA, so Ya St John's did land MAAC talent. Some are saying he will be the best player on the team

I think Baldi was more or less considering the mcdonalds kids the 1st tier

What, so now they have to beat out Kansas and Kentucky for a kid to be good?

OK other than Villa nova who in the BE is beating out those schools for kids and furthermore how many times does Nova beat those schools out for kids?

This is nonsense..

Here is my point, if SJU fired Lavin to hire a coach who can't beat Letaio, Wojo, Mack, Willard, JTIII, Holtmann etc wiithout top 25 kids at each position then he SHOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN HIRED TO BEGIN WITH!!!