The Future of this Program

That’s actually what you did: 

“Ponds, LoVett, Mussini was recruited by the previous staff. But even if we gave Ponds to the current staff”

Even if we gave Ponds to the current staff!!!!  The staff landed the #36 RSCI recruit who has gone one to be one of the top 5-7 players in program history when we sucked.

Heron is the highest rated recruit since Omar. Simon was RSCI #30. Figgy was to 100. Tabor is too 60. C’mon dude .

Didn’t LoVett sign after Ponds? Mussini and Yakwe also signed during Mullins tenure, yet we all know the prior staff were recruiting them and we were considered the favorites. Why is Ponds being treated different? Mullins staff still had to close the deal on these kids as none of them were signed but the visceral I’m receiving by mentioning the reality that the prior relationship and exposure to the school which occurred during the prior regime helped is not by any means ridiculous. It happens during every coaching change, where the new coach has to re-recruit the prior staffs targets if the staff is interested. They could have chose to go in a different direction but didn’t, so credit staff for following up.

I’m not saying Lavins bench were good, outside of Branch. I’m saying they were better and used more than our current bench. Williams and Roberts could develop to be solid contributors, but as of this writing the totality of the bench’s production and contributions did not exceed Lavins bench. That’s just the facts. A lot of that is on Mullin, he chooses to play his starters for extended minutes and I think Williams and Roberts are good enough to play more minutes. When I say good enough I mean good enough to spell the starters and give them some rest.

No neither were good. You said it was deeper. Not better. Branch was the best. Other than that lavin didn’t use his bench that year. Jones and balamou had less then 30 points! Williams and Trimble have more with 6 regular season games left. Re-read your posts in this thread and then think about why maybe it is you feel everyone is misinterpreting what your saying.

That’s actually what you did: 

“Ponds, LoVett, Mussini was recruited by the previous staff. But even if we gave Ponds to the current staff”

Even if we gave Ponds to the current staff!!!!  The staff landed the #36 RSCI recruit who has gone one to be one of the top 5-7 players in program history when we sucked.

Heron is the highest rated recruit since Omar. Simon was RSCI #30. Figgy was to 100. Tabor is too 60. C’mon dude .

I’ll also say this, giving the staffs track record of being able to sign high rated players out of HS, how confident are you that Mullin would have been able to land Ponds had he not been a STJ lean? You believe if Ponds was a lean to another program Mullin would have wrestled him away within 6 months? Maybe he would have, I don’t believe so.

No neither were good. You said it was deeper. Not better. Branch was the best. Other than that lavin didn’t use his bench that year. Jones and balamou had less then 30 points! Williams and Trimble have more with 6 regular season games left. Re-read your posts in this thread and then think about why maybe it is you feel everyone is misinterpreting what your saying.

They were deeper in the sense that Lavins utilization of them was much more than Mullin uses his. If there were 15 players on the team they all would have played at some point. Lavin played walk on in BE play for Christ sake. Those spot minutes helps get rest for your core players and is needed when your not deep. Mullin could do the same he chooses not to.

Branch was an enormous bust. He averaged 14 mpg as a junior. Let’s not rewrite the past. He shot 29% from three on mostly wide open looks. He probably had more ability but he didn’t use it

Branch and Trimble are a wash to me and very similar in a number of ways. Maybe you can give a narrow edge to Branch for being able to play some point.

I’ll also say this, giving the staffs track record of being able to sign high rated players out of HS, how confident are you that Mullin would have been able to land Ponds had he not been a STJ lean? You believe if Ponds was a lean to another program Mullin would have wrestled him away within 6 months? Maybe he would have, I don’t believe so.

If you want to point to a walk-on getting spot minutes as proof of a deep bench then have at it.

They were deeper in the sense that Lavins utilization of them was much more than Mullin uses his. If there were 15 players on the team they all would have played at some point. Lavin played walk on in BE play for Christ sake. Those spot minutes helps get rest for your core players and is needed when your not deep. Mullin could do the same he chooses not to.

That Lavin team was a disaster (which actually worked out for us since it forced him to finally move Pointer insid).

They had only nine scholarship players and two of them were the freshman versions of AA and Jones. We didn’t have anyone redshirting either. 

Myles Stewart played 20 games as a freshman walkon (don’t think he ever appeared in a game after transferring). Joey DelaRosa played 18 games as a walkon and he was only eligible the second half of the season.

Mullin would never have played AA or Jones a minute besides blowouts...forget the walkons.

Roberts would have played 15 mpg on that team. No offense to Mase, but I’m taking Earlington all day over Jones as freshmen.

They were deeper in the sense that Lavins utilization of them was much more than Mullin uses his. If there were 15 players on the team they all would have played at some point. Lavin played walk on in BE play for Christ sake. Those spot minutes helps get rest for your core players and is needed when your not deep. Mullin could do the same he chooses not to.

Mullin has had to overwork the starters fairly often. But against Butler we were about to blow them out of the building, and he brings in Keita & Trimble and not only did they not score, but they gave up points. Especially Keita who is clearly not in basketball shape and also seems to have significant trouble with every other aspect of the game. Yet, Mullin went to him early after he was absolutely awful at home against Providence. He could get better. Let’s hope he works hard this summer, but he’s not able to help us win right now.

I can see why Mullin played Roberts sparingly in Nov/Dec, but he has got to move him ahead of Keita in the rotation now that he’s proven to be better than him. Freshman or not. Good for him. He’s clearly worked hard, and he is improved. He’s not going to be shooting ten footers, or three pointers, but so what? We desperately need Roberts to grab boards for us. I’m counting on him to help us win more games this season.

That Lavin team was a disaster (which actually worked out for us since it forced him to finally move Pointer insid).

They had only nine scholarship players and two of them were the freshman versions of AA and Jones. We didn’t have anyone redshirting either. 

Myles Stewart played 20 games as a freshman walkon (don’t think he ever appeared in a game after transferring). Joey DelaRosa played 18 games as a walkon and he was only eligible the second half of the season.

Mullin would never have played AA or Jones a minute besides blowouts...forget the walkons.

Roberts would have played 15 mpg on that team. No offense to Mase, but I’m taking Earlington all day over Jones as freshmen.

Balamou and Jones were in their 3rd years. CJs RS soph and Felix a junior after Lav stripped him of his redshirt the previous year 10 games into the season.

CJ as an upperclassmen with a guard like ponds would be great for this team. Don’t get me going

Branch was an enormous bust. He averaged 14 mpg as a junior. Let’s not rewrite the past. He shot 29% from three on mostly wide open looks. He probably had more ability but he didn’t use it

Branch and Trimble are a wash to me and very similar in a number of ways. Maybe you can give a narrow edge to Branch for being able to play some point.

Branch and Trimble are a wash? Branch may not have lived up to his ranking out of HS, but to say they are a wash is simply ignoring the facts.

His senior year Branch scored 141pts, grabbed 74 reb, 71 ast, 18 stls, 29 To.

6 games remaining Trimble is at 57 pts, 39 reb, 7 ast, 5 stls, 10 to.

It’s nots even close.

If you want to point to a walk-on getting spot minutes as proof of a deep bench then have at it.

That bench scored 272 points. This bench is at 121 with 6 remaining. Minus Branch’s 145 the others scored 127.

Look at it this way

145     57
37       38
29       34
28       11
24         8
  9         3

Which bench looks better?

Ponds, LoVett, Mussini was recruited by the previous staff. But even if we gave Ponds to the current staff, Williams and Tabor in 2020, that’s 3 top 100 players out of HS in 6 years. Who we are in on doesn’t count, who we sign is what matters. Trending in the right direction would mean a top 20 recruiting class, not one player in the top 100. We have to do better.

Mullin was a big factor landing Shamorie. Probably more so than any other recruit. To not give credit is completely ignorant and idiotic. Also Heron, Simon, Figueroa, Clark, Keita, Wright are all consensus top 100 guys. Steere, Mack, Williams all fringe top 100 guys.

Mullin was a big factor landing Shamorie. Probably more so than any other recruit. To not give credit is completely ignorant and idiotic. Also Heron, Simon, Figueroa, Clark, Keita, Wright are all consensus top 100 guys. Steere, Mack, Williams all fringe top 100 guys.

Sure he was a big factor but If Ponds wasn’t already considering STJ I’m not confident Mullin would have been able to land him cause he hasn’t demonstrated he is capable of. Ponds was considering STJ because of the efforts of the prior staff. Mullin has struggled landing top talent directly out of HS since he’s been here. How many programs in the last 25 years made it to the final four relying solely on transfers?

Mullin was a big factor landing Shamorie. Probably more so than any other recruit. To not give credit is completely ignorant and idiotic. Also Heron, Simon, Figueroa, Clark, Keita, Wright are all consensus top 100 guys. Steere, Mack, Williams all fringe top 100 guys.

Agree about Ponds.
But Simon, Clark, Keita and Wright played less than 10 minutes in their previous teams, so their HS rankings are a little relative.

That bench scored 272 points. This bench is at 121 with 6 remaining. Minus Branch’s 145 the others scored 127.

Look at it this way

145     57
37       38
29       34
28       11
24         8
  9         3

Which bench looks better?

If this is what you want to go by then I can’t wait till we play 8 more games. This ignores Keita missing the whole OOC schedule in which during that time we had Dixon who scored 82 points.

Maybe so...yet you failed to answer the question. Typical avoidance when you have little substance to add to the discussion.

Speaking of typical avoidance, you started out asking "So you think this years team is deeper?" which question you answered "that bench was deaper than our current bench." And when facts intervened showing that that bench went one player deep you said of the bench "no it wasn’t deep."

Which is why now we're onto "whose bench was better?" See also goalposts, moving the. Which allowed you to avoid the question I asked: if Lavin's bench was so deep and talented, why didn't he use it? There seem to be three possible answers: either Lavin sucked at coaching and was too stupid to use a deep talented bench; or the bench wasn't deep and talented; or both Lavin and the bench sucked.

Anyway I'll indulge you.

Dixon, Trimble, Keita, Roberts, Williams Jr

>

Branch, Alibegowitz, Balamou, Jones, and several walk-ons

Branch and Trimble are a wash? Branch may not have lived up to his ranking out of HS, but to say they are a wash is simply ignoring the facts.

His senior year Branch scored 141pts, grabbed 74 reb, 71 ast, 18 stls, 29 To.

6 games remaining Trimble is at 57 pts, 39 reb, 7 ast, 5 stls, 10 to.

It’s nots even close.

Let’s first stipulate to the obvious fact that Lavin was much more liberal giving minutes to bench players than Mullin. Without that no reasonable discussion is possible.

You clearly used totals instead of averages for Branch and Trimble because the averages for both are awful. It’s been stated by many posters that Trimble can positively affect a game on both ends without any stats. It’s unusual.

Let’s be honest here...Branch primarily backed up Phil Greene. I was a fan of Phil’s but he was a 3* player with obvious limitations yet he played 35 mpg that season. Trimble backs up Heron (5* player and 2-time all-SEC) and Simon. There is no way Phil plays anywhere near those minutes on this team. He was a 20 mpg player.

Lavin was so desperate for guard play and shooting he played a freshman walkon (Myles Stewart) in 20 games and for an average of 5 mpg. He also played walkons Ndiaye, Lipscomb, and J. Delarosa 11, 13, and 18 (only eligible second half) games. Branch was also the benefactor of Jordan’s trips back to Philly and multiple punishments.

I think Trimble would have played 20-25 mpg per game for Lavin because of his shooting and the clear need that team had for it. He is also a big boy and can handle 3’s and 4’s and that team was tiny.

Mullin is stingy with who plays. He wasn’t playing any of the freshmen at first and Roberts and Williams have proven to very capable players. Earlington is a much better than a walkon as well and he could get a dozen offers from smaller conferences if he transferred.

Nobody wanted Stewart after his time here. Last I heard he transferred to Arizona St. but didn’t make the team as a walkon.

I think Trimble would have played 20-25 mpg per game for Lavin because of his shooting and the clear need that team had for it.

Totals give you a better picture of the players over all contributions. Lavin would have played Trimble because he would have not because he was better than Branch. Trimble is shooting 35% from the field, 33% from 3. Let’s stop it with the Trimble is a good shooter narrative until he demonstrates it. Branch shot 17% from 3 in his sophomore year and 33% from 3 in each of his other 3 years and 50% from 2 in his last two seasons. Branch was a significantly better defender on the perimeter. Trimble is tough but lacks lateral quickness. There is absolutely no metric where Trimble is remotely close to Branch.

Agree about Ponds.
But Simon, Clark, Keita and Wright played less than 10 minutes in their previous teams, so their HS rankings are a little relative.

What does their freshman minutes have to do with their high school ranking? I fail to see the relevance.