Rysheed Jordan - PG - Vaux Roberts - Philadelphia, PA - ST. JOHN'S

Quote from: RedStormyNight on April 06, 2013, 09:04:36 PM

Quote from: paultzman on April 06, 2013, 08:37:13 PM

Quote from: RedStormyNight on April 06, 2013, 08:32:40 PM

What I said was true...those 3 players were NOT from the NYC area. Some of them played JUCO or other levels in the NYC area, but are not from there. Aren't Obekpa and Felix from Africa? And Sanchez is from DR. Facts don't seem to matter to some of you...just who's posting them does. Harkless is a VERY good recruit obviously...but like I said Jordan would be the BEST recruit Lavin ever pulled for us if he comes ranking wise. I love Harkless but I think some people overrate him at the college level. He is doing great in the NBA right now, but as a rookie he wasn't amazing. He had a few 30 pt monster games, but he couldn't shoot for his life and Harrison was the clear go to guy even with him here.

There is talk that Jordan will be upgraded to a 5 star prospect now. We have yet to have one under Lavin. All I'm saying is, if he goes to Temple it's a wakeup call that we need to get NYC area's best players i.e. Calhoun, McCollough, Lawrence, etc. to be more loyal. What that takes I don't know, but we have to own NYC's best before we can be dominant again.

Joe, count stars at your leisure;


http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/141635/rysheed-jordan

Well look at that, he's now 5 stars. If Temple can land one there is no reason we can't. Is that so crazy to say? Especially considering we have a coach well known for his recruiting ability.

You're overstating the importance of a 5 star recruit Joe.   Providence had 2 last year, how did that work out for them?  Houston had one too, and Pitt has had 2 in recent years, Birch and Adams, and they've been less competitive the last two years than at any other point in this decade.  I could go on (Arkansas has a 5star coming in.. etc)

Don't forget Dom Pointer was ranked as high as 24, and Jordan is coming in around 22.  The rankings only tell you so much.   And they usually over emphasize certain attributes (like height) at the expense of guys who see the court well and can shoot.

Getting a loi from Jordan isn't a sign that all is well with the program.    Nor does it mean the sky is falling.
Things like the makeup of the roster, chemistry, and coaching matter just as much as recruiting ranks.   I can be as critical as anyone but you gotta think big picture.   And in my mind goals for this offseason go: 1) get D'angelo onboard and in a good place, 2) recruit the hell out of centers and forwards in the '14 class, 3) sign Jordan. 
* and I'll add as an aside to re-evaluate the roles of the staff (although I doubt that happens).

On the $$ Desco!

Getting a 5 star player is a lotto ticket. But the odds are not the same. Your chances of getting a program changer from a 5 star McDonald's AA are much better than your typical 4 star non AA. I know Jordan isn't an AA but I'm just saying...it's the odds of panning out that is better for higher caliber recruits. Sure there are diamonds in the rough but look at the lists of McDonald's AA's. They are legends not just in college but at the NBA level. That's what you aim for. If the highest recruits never panned out, Kentucky, L'Ville, Cuse, Duke, UNC, etc. would always suck. Instead, they are the best programs. That's because they go after the program changers. I know you can't have a team of superstars, but a few 5 star AA's never hurt a fly.

I hope we land him but!
coming out of high school would u rather have Amir or Early from witchita
look how they both ended up!
 
time will tell what we have (if he signs with STJ's)
I'm sure our ESPN coverage and media outlets are better than Temple
especially after wyatt got caught looking for a hooker on his birthday last season
or we gonna act like that's ok for a top 20 recruit's parents standards?
 
He needs a good catholic school with mega media coverage potential
 

I hope we land him but!
coming out of high school would u rather have Amir or Early from witchita
look how they both ended up!
 
time will tell what we have (if he signs with STJ's)
I'm sure our ESPN coverage and media outlets are better than Temple
especially after wyatt got caught looking for a hooker on his birthday last season
or we gonna act like that's ok for a top 20 recruit's parents standards?
 
He needs a good catholic school with mega media coverage potential
 

Early needed Juco.  Like his game but thats the beauty of Juco.

And why I hope and expect that we incorporate a few JUCO's for 2014 of that ilk.  Since the great 99-00 team, 3 of the 6 best players we have had have been JUCO -- Hatten, Hardy and Brownlee (I put Mo, Dlo and Sampson as the other three).

And why I hope and expect that we incorporate a few JUCO's for 2014 of that ilk.  Since the great 99-00 team, 3 of the 6 best players we have had have been JUCO -- Hatten, Hardy and Brownlee (I put Mo, Dlo and Sampson as the other three).

Darrick Wood, 3rd times a charm 

Don't know if anyone has mentioned or noticed this but maybe Jordan moved up his announcement date a few days so he can announce on espn recruiting show April 11 6pm espnu. Let's hope it is like a few years ago when several of our guys (Karr, Pelle, another?) all announced on that show. 

Don't know if anyone has mentioned or noticed this but maybe Jordan moved up his announcement date a few days so he can announce on espn recruiting show April 11 6pm espnu. Let's hope it is like a few years ago when several of our guys (Karr, Pelle, another?) all announced on that show. 

Sampson and Dlo. Don't think Pelle's was telecasted.

Early went to Sullivan because he wanted to be with his mom after his older brother passed away in a drowning accident. He was 2 time player of the year.

Really hope we can get Rysheed, he is a baller! Will instantly improve our shooting percentages by the amount of open looks he will get people. Can get in the lane with ease, can score at a high level, needs to take less fade away jumpshots, I had to find something to critique because he is the real deal. Needs to be a better on the ball defender but plays passing lanes well. If he comes to St. John's he can have Shane Larkin impact, the reason I preface the statement with can, is based on Jakarr and D-LO returning. Its always something with us, eligibility issues, injuries, suspensions. We are well over due for some good luck and great times! Will forever dislike Scoonie Penn and Michael Redd and that ref that didn't call that damn bump on Barkley!!!

Really hope we can get Rysheed, he is a baller! Will instantly improve our shooting percentages by the amount of open looks he will get people. Can get in the lane with ease, can score at a high level, needs to take less fade away jumpshots, I had to find something to critique because he is the real deal. Needs to be a better on the ball defender but plays passing lanes well. If he comes to St. John's he can have Shane Larkin impact, the reason I preface the statement with can, is based on Jakarr and D-LO returning. Its always something with us, eligibility issues, injuries, suspensions. We are well over due for some good luck and great times! Will forever dislike Scoonie Penn and Michael Redd and that ref that didn't call that damn bump on Barkley!!!

He'd also translate to more open looks for Marco or Max - able to penetrate, and still get the ball out to the open shooter when the defense collapses, rather than the Phil Green manuver of keep on penetrating and pray for a blocking call instead of a charge (if he can't get the teardrop off)....

I'm slightly confused. For a while everyone was saying basically he's not coming here. Are we considered the favorites to land him at this point?

I'm slightly confused. For a while everyone was saying basically he's not coming here. Are we considered the favorites to land him at this point?

Don't be confused.  These posts are just the ramblings of fools---yous truly included.  Seldom does anynoe "know" anything.

I'm slightly confused. For a while everyone was saying basically he's not coming here. Are we considered the favorites to land him at this point?

A lot of folks think the Ben Howland firing at UCLA has greatly increased our chances.   Kid hand NYC, & LA  and....Temple in his final 3.   If UCLA's out of it, St. Johns is the remaining "Big Time" among his choices.   The impression I get from the kid (quotes, social media) is that "NBA Future" is incredibly important to him.   I'm hoping it's not lost on him that he LAST successful NBA guard from Temple was Guy Rodgers back in 1959   - unless you count the 6 pt a game disappointment that was Mark Macon as "successful".   To me, it seemed THAT was the common denominator between the two "non-hometow" schools in his final 3 - Steve Lavin sending 6 guards to the NBA in 9 years as a head coach, and Ben Howland sending  9 in 14 years.   UCLA itself may still be in play as a launching ground for NBA guards over an A10 school, regardless of the coach.  They've sent more guards to the NBA than every A10 school COMBINED (32).  But I think it's more likely it's now between SJU and Temple....By the way, tho not so many recently, St. Johns has sent 24 guards to the NBA over the years (14 were pre-1960).   

Quote from: thetruth8734 on April 07, 2013, 11:25:26 PM

I'm slightly confused. For a while everyone was saying basically he's not coming here. Are we considered the favorites to land him at this point?

A lot of folks think the Ben Howland firing at UCLA has greatly increased our chances.   Kid hand NYC, & LA  and....Temple in his final 3.   If UCLA's out of it, St. Johns is the remaining "Big Time" among his choices.   The impression I get from the kid (quotes, social media) is that "NBA Future" is incredibly important to him.   I'm hoping it's not lost on him that he LAST successful NBA guard from Temple was Guy Rodgers back in 1959   - unless you count the 6 pt a game disappointment that was Mark Macon as "successful".   To me, it seemed THAT was the common denominator between the two "non-hometow" schools in his final 3 - Steve Lavin sending 6 guards to the NBA in 9 years as a head coach, and Ben Howland sending  9 in 14 years.   UCLA itself may still be in play as a launching ground for NBA guards over an A10 school, regardless of the coach.  They've sent more guards to the NBA than every A10 school COMBINED (32).  But I think it's more likely it's now between SJU and Temple....By the way, tho not so many recently, St. Johns has sent 24 guards to the NBA over the years (14 were pre-1960).   

I'm too young to remember him in college, but what about Eddie Jones? Was he not a guard at Temple?

Quote from: crgreen on April 08, 2013, 12:25:47 AM

Quote from: thetruth8734 on April 07, 2013, 11:25:26 PM

I'm slightly confused. For a while everyone was saying basically he's not coming here. Are we considered the favorites to land him at this point?

A lot of folks think the Ben Howland firing at UCLA has greatly increased our chances.   Kid hand NYC, & LA  and....Temple in his final 3.   If UCLA's out of it, St. Johns is the remaining "Big Time" among his choices.   The impression I get from the kid (quotes, social media) is that "NBA Future" is incredibly important to him.   I'm hoping it's not lost on him that he LAST successful NBA guard from Temple was Guy Rodgers back in 1959   - unless you count the 6 pt a game disappointment that was Mark Macon as "successful".   To me, it seemed THAT was the common denominator between the two "non-hometow" schools in his final 3 - Steve Lavin sending 6 guards to the NBA in 9 years as a head coach, and Ben Howland sending  9 in 14 years.   UCLA itself may still be in play as a launching ground for NBA guards over an A10 school, regardless of the coach.  They've sent more guards to the NBA than every A10 school COMBINED (32).  But I think it's more likely it's now between SJU and Temple....By the way, tho not so many recently, St. Johns has sent 24 guards to the NBA over the years (14 were pre-1960).   

I'm too young to remember him in college, but what about Eddie Jones? Was he not a guard at Temple?

I think he played SF at Temple because McKie was the SG.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on April 08, 2013, 01:02:40 AM

Quote from: crgreen on April 08, 2013, 12:25:47 AM

Quote from: thetruth8734 on April 07, 2013, 11:25:26 PM

I'm slightly confused. For a while everyone was saying basically he's not coming here. Are we considered the favorites to land him at this point?

A lot of folks think the Ben Howland firing at UCLA has greatly increased our chances.   Kid hand NYC, & LA  and....Temple in his final 3.   If UCLA's out of it, St. Johns is the remaining "Big Time" among his choices.   The impression I get from the kid (quotes, social media) is that "NBA Future" is incredibly important to him.   I'm hoping it's not lost on him that he LAST successful NBA guard from Temple was Guy Rodgers back in 1959   - unless you count the 6 pt a game disappointment that was Mark Macon as "successful".   To me, it seemed THAT was the common denominator between the two "non-hometow" schools in his final 3 - Steve Lavin sending 6 guards to the NBA in 9 years as a head coach, and Ben Howland sending  9 in 14 years.   UCLA itself may still be in play as a launching ground for NBA guards over an A10 school, regardless of the coach.  They've sent more guards to the NBA than every A10 school COMBINED (32).  But I think it's more likely it's now between SJU and Temple....By the way, tho not so many recently, St. Johns has sent 24 guards to the NBA over the years (14 were pre-1960).   

I'm too young to remember him in college, but what about Eddie Jones? Was he not a guard at Temple?

I think he played SF at Temple because McKie was the SG.

GREAT player from Temple.  But he was 17 pts 7 rebs as  a So, and 19 pts 7 rebs as a  Jr. forward for the Owls before leaving early for the NBA.   Rick Brunson and Aaron McKie were the guards on his Owl teams.   I guess due to longevity (12 yrs, but he only scored 29 total pts his last 2 seasons!), you could consider the career 7 pt a game McKie as a successful guard from Temple.  Borderline call...  Brunson played 9 years in the league, but was a career 3 pt a game guy, 13 minutes a game.   That call isn't so borderline.    But he did apparently earn over $5 million.  So lets say financially successful!   And changing my mind on McKie - just checked the financials.  $51 mill over 12 years.  Definately succesful.    Wow - 2006, he played 14 games for the Lakers, scored 0.5 pts per game - and earned $6  million dollars, and the following year 10 games and 2.2 pts per game earned $6.5 million - and the year after, out of basketball, earned $7 mil...from Philly, who'd signed him to a 7 year guaranteed contract in 2002!   $4mil, $4.5, $5, $5.5, $6, $6.5 and $7 million from 2002-2008 all from the Philly contract.  They signed him at age 28, and figured he'd be solid till 35 or 36.   He bottomed out at 32!

Add Lynn Greer and Pepe Sanchez to the list of good Temple guards who did nothing in the NBA.

Quote from: thetruth8734 on April 07, 2013, 11:25:26 PM

I'm slightly confused. For a while everyone was saying basically he's not coming here. Are we considered the favorites to land him at this point?

A lot of folks think the Ben Howland firing at UCLA has greatly increased our chances.   Kid hand NYC, & LA  and....Temple in his final 3.   If UCLA's out of it, St. Johns is the remaining "Big Time" among his choices.   The impression I get from the kid (quotes, social media) is that "NBA Future" is incredibly important to him.   I'm hoping it's not lost on him that he LAST successful NBA guard from Temple was Guy Rodgers back in 1959   - unless you count the 6 pt a game disappointment that was Mark Macon as "successful".   To me, it seemed THAT was the common denominator between the two "non-hometow" schools in his final 3 - Steve Lavin sending 6 guards to the NBA in 9 years as a head coach, and Ben Howland sending  9 in 14 years.   UCLA itself may still be in play as a launching ground for NBA guards over an A10 school, regardless of the coach.  They've sent more guards to the NBA than every A10 school COMBINED (32).  But I think it's more likely it's now between SJU and Temple....By the way, tho not so many recently, St. Johns has sent 24 guards to the NBA over the years (14 were pre-1960).

Hmmm. Interesting. I would hope karma would be on our side in this recruitment. How many times have we lost the big local recruit to another program? After losing McCullough, Lawerence, Stephenson etc. it would suck if another big recruit we are going after actually decides to stay home, this time while we are on the wrong end of it.

Add Lynn Greer and Pepe Sanchez to the list of good Temple guards who did nothing in the NBA.

One of my pet peeves (the board will get to know them all, eventually) - is the disrespect for a players accomplishements at one level, because of a percieved failure at another - whether it be a high school player who doesn't make a major impact in college, or a college player who doesn't make it in the pros.   Tho a lot of similarities, High School, NAIA, D-III, D-II, D-I, NBA and Euro Basketball are DIFFERENT animals.   It's why a guy who wasn't a high school star can be a star college player, and why a STAR high school player doesn't make a big impact in college.  But it shouldn't impact how he is perceived at the level he WAS successful.

I'm sure St. Johns fans know what I'm talking about.  Walter Berry was the Wooden Award winner.  The AP College Player of the Year in 1986.   He was a GREAT college player.  But because he WASN'T a star in the NBA, folks have diminished his accomplishments as a Collegiate.  This happens a lot.   For SJU there's Mel Davis.  LeRoy Ellis -  INCREDIBLE college players, who don't get the respect they're due when discussion of great college players comes around because of what they DIDN'T accomplish outside of college.   Ask someone in their 50s about a guy named Mel Counts, and they'll tell you about a journeyman, gawky reserve center from the NBA.   Ask someone in their SIXTIES, and you MIGHT hear about the Greatest Player EVER  in Oregon College history (yeah - greater than Gary Payton) - the TWO time All American, Gold Medal Olympian - the guy who averaged 21 pts and 16 rebs as a Junior, and 27 pts and 17 rebs as a Senior, leading his team to the final four.   A truly GREAT collegiate, who in LA is a joke - the player you cite when you want to denigrate someone, because of his years as a backup center for the Celtics.

And it works in reverse.   I've had folks tell me Charles Barkley was a GREAT college player.   They seem stunned when I point out that  his BEST year at Auburn was 15 pts and 9 rebs.   And they tend to look at me funny when my all time North Carolina team doesn't include a guy named Jordan - cause to put him there I'd have to omit either Billy Cunningham at SF or Charlie Scott at SG - and he didn't earn THAT till he played in the pros (27 pts 9 rebs, broke the color barrier at UNC for Scott, 26pts 16 rebs for the Kangaroo Kid, Cunningham) - and THAT'S leaving off Lenny Rosenblath, who gave them 27 pts and 11 rebs a game for his 3 year career.   I CAN'T justify a 17pt 5 rebs 1.8 assist guy over them.  Yes he won a title as a 13 pt frosh - with Perkins and Worthy - but couldn't get them back to the Final Four with Perkins gone....

Oh well.  Meds are finally kicking in - 4:30 am  - MAYBE I can get some sleep...