Moe and the 2012 Draft

Quote from: pmg911 on March 14, 2012, 03:53:34 PM

This here is wisdom.

The real wisdom would be having wise people around you that were not short sighted and didn't see the big picture for your future.

Think about the difference between making say $5.3mm or making $3.3mm because that is the difference between the 10th pick and the 21st pick in the NBA Draft.

If Moe has one bad workout he could fall to 2nd Rd and not even get guaranteed money.

10th pick actually makes $5.85mill in first three years.  I was comparing it to 25 pick and that's $2.9mill over first three years.  Double the money to me makes it a no brainer but as Theo points out I'm not of need, never have been.  But Mo is certainly not a can't miss prospect.  His first contract could very well be the best one he ever gets.  Don't understand why his advisors don't see it would be worth the year to make sure it's as large as possible.  Most of us will make over $2.9 mill in our careers but I'm betting far fewer will make $5.8 mill.  It's a substantial difference.  Especially if you're supporting a troop of hangers on (or kids LOL).   I'm sure Mo will make a decent living if he goes this year and if he doesn't make it in the NBA will collect a check making ball somewhere for the next 10 years.  But a lottery contract helps set you up for life.

UCLA had two klids go early last year - Tyler Honeycutt (soph)  and Malcolm Lee (Jr).  Both went in the 2nd round.   But both ended up with guaranteed contracts - about 3 mill apiece.  Tyler with the Kings, Malcolm with the Twolves.

One other thing when figuring $$$$'s - is the value of the 2nd contract.  Getting to that 2nd contract one or two years earlier than if you stay in college.    Russell Westbrook just signed his 2nd contract - it's for $80 mill over 5 year s- $16 million a year.   Under his rookie contract (top 5 pick), he made 4 million this year in his 3rd yer of the contract.  Figuring his career has a finite end on matter when it starts, if he had stayed at UCLA another year, that's TWELVE MILLION DOLLARS for the coming year he would have lost, that he could never regain.

NBADraft.net has him going 16th to Houston.

Who knows???

And what Europeans are they considering? Or are they completely ignoring all foreign players?

Quote from: bigmaxnosauce on March 15, 2012, 11:08:15 AM

NBADraft.net has him going 16th to Houston.

Who knows???

And what Europeans are they considering? Or are they completely ignoring all foreign players?

They have some fer-in-errs in the second round.  Here is the link http://www.nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft

Quote from: yankcranker on March 15, 2012, 01:01:21 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on March 14, 2012, 03:53:34 PM

This here is wisdom.

The real wisdom would be having wise people around you that were not short sighted and didn't see the big picture for your future.

Think about the difference between making say $5.3mm or making $3.3mm because that is the difference between the 10th pick and the 21st pick in the NBA Draft.

If Moe has one bad workout he could fall to 2nd Rd and not even get guaranteed money.

10th pick actually makes $5.85mill in first three years.  I was comparing it to 25 pick and that's $2.9mill over first three years.  Double the money to me makes it a no brainer but as Theo points out I'm not of need, never have been.  But Mo is certainly not a can't miss prospect.  His first contract could very well be the best one he ever gets.  Don't understand why his advisors don't see it would be worth the year to make sure it's as large as possible.  Most of us will make over $2.9 mill in our careers but I'm betting far fewer will make $5.8 mill.  It's a substantial difference.  Especially if you're supporting a troop of hangers on (or kids LOL).   I'm sure Mo will make a decent living if he goes this year and if he doesn't make it in the NBA will collect a check making ball somewhere for the next 10 years.  But a lottery contract helps set you up for life.

UCLA had two klids go early last year - Tyler Honeycutt (soph)  and Malcolm Lee (Jr).  Both went in the 2nd round.   But both ended up with guaranteed contracts - about 3 mill apiece.  Tyler with the Kings, Malcolm with the Twolves.

One other thing when figuring $$$$'s - is the value of the 2nd contract.  Getting to that 2nd contract one or two years earlier than if you stay in college.    Russell Westbrook just signed his 2nd contract - it's for $80 mill over 5 year s- $16 million a year.   Under his rookie contract (top 5 pick), he made 4 million this year in his 3rd yer of the contract.  Figuring his career has a finite end on matter when it starts, if he had stayed at UCLA another year, that's TWELVE MILLION DOLLARS for the coming year he would have lost, that he could never regain.

But cr, there are some current theories that many players bodies will break down by a certain range of NBA games played, regardless of when players come out (much like NFL running backs).


So if guys stay in college another year, they'll only be able to play a certain # of games within a range that their body will allow anyway, so they might as well use another year in school to get stronger and enjoy the limited game schedule and practice more.


I'm not dismissing the opportunity cost in the equation, just offering an alternative view I've read that some stat guys out there have mentioned.

Quote from: crgreen on March 15, 2012, 01:17:14 PM

Quote from: yankcranker on March 15, 2012, 01:01:21 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on March 14, 2012, 03:53:34 PM

This here is wisdom.

The real wisdom would be having wise people around you that were not short sighted and didn't see the big picture for your future.

Think about the difference between making say $5.3mm or making $3.3mm because that is the difference between the 10th pick and the 21st pick in the NBA Draft.

If Moe has one bad workout he could fall to 2nd Rd and not even get guaranteed money.

10th pick actually makes $5.85mill in first three years.  I was comparing it to 25 pick and that's $2.9mill over first three years.  Double the money to me makes it a no brainer but as Theo points out I'm not of need, never have been.  But Mo is certainly not a can't miss prospect.  His first contract could very well be the best one he ever gets.  Don't understand why his advisors don't see it would be worth the year to make sure it's as large as possible.  Most of us will make over $2.9 mill in our careers but I'm betting far fewer will make $5.8 mill.  It's a substantial difference.  Especially if you're supporting a troop of hangers on (or kids LOL).   I'm sure Mo will make a decent living if he goes this year and if he doesn't make it in the NBA will collect a check making ball somewhere for the next 10 years.  But a lottery contract helps set you up for life.

UCLA had two klids go early last year - Tyler Honeycutt (soph)  and Malcolm Lee (Jr).  Both went in the 2nd round.   But both ended up with guaranteed contracts - about 3 mill apiece.  Tyler with the Kings, Malcolm with the Twolves.

One other thing when figuring $$$$'s - is the value of the 2nd contract.  Getting to that 2nd contract one or two years earlier than if you stay in college.    Russell Westbrook just signed his 2nd contract - it's for $80 mill over 5 year s- $16 million a year.   Under his rookie contract (top 5 pick), he made 4 million this year in his 3rd yer of the contract.  Figuring his career has a finite end on matter when it starts, if he had stayed at UCLA another year, that's TWELVE MILLION DOLLARS for the coming year he would have lost, that he could never regain.

But cr, there are some current theories that many players bodies will break down by a certain range of NBA games played, regardless of when players come out (much like NFL running backs).


So if guys stay in college another year, they'll only be able to play a certain # of games within a range that their body will allow anyway, so they might as well use another year in school to get stronger and enjoy the limited game schedule and practice more.


I'm not dismissing the opportunity cost in the equation, just offering an alternative view I've read that some stat guys out there have mentioned.

Another way to look at it is that 19 year old players will have less playing time and have better ancillary benefits (better understanding of the NBA game, first class training facilities etc).  They can get all of this any bring home a nice paycheck and move closer to entering free agency at a prime age for an NBA player.

Quote from: yankcranker on March 15, 2012, 01:01:21 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on March 14, 2012, 03:53:34 PM

This here is wisdom.

The real wisdom would be having wise people around you that were not short sighted and didn't see the big picture for your future.

Think about the difference between making say $5.3mm or making $3.3mm because that is the difference between the 10th pick and the 21st pick in the NBA Draft.

If Moe has one bad workout he could fall to 2nd Rd and not even get guaranteed money.

10th pick actually makes $5.85mill in first three years.  I was comparing it to 25 pick and that's $2.9mill over first three years.  Double the money to me makes it a no brainer but as Theo points out I'm not of need, never have been.  But Mo is certainly not a can't miss prospect.  His first contract could very well be the best one he ever gets.  Don't understand why his advisors don't see it would be worth the year to make sure it's as large as possible.  Most of us will make over $2.9 mill in our careers but I'm betting far fewer will make $5.8 mill.  It's a substantial difference.  Especially if you're supporting a troop of hangers on (or kids LOL).   I'm sure Mo will make a decent living if he goes this year and if he doesn't make it in the NBA will collect a check making ball somewhere for the next 10 years.  But a lottery contract helps set you up for life.

UCLA had two klids go early last year - Tyler Honeycutt (soph)  and Malcolm Lee (Jr).  Both went in the 2nd round.   But both ended up with guaranteed contracts - about 3 mill apiece.  Tyler with the Kings, Malcolm with the Twolves.

One other thing when figuring $$$$'s - is the value of the 2nd contract.  Getting to that 2nd contract one or two years earlier than if you stay in college.    Russell Westbrook just signed his 2nd contract - it's for $80 mill over 5 year s- $16 million a year.   Under his rookie contract (top 5 pick), he made 4 million this year in his 3rd yer of the contract.  Figuring his career has a finite end on matter when it starts, if he had stayed at UCLA another year, that's TWELVE MILLION DOLLARS for the coming year he would have lost, that he could never regain.

I think it's also fair to point out that Russell Westbrook has been a total stud from day 1 of his NBA career.  Not saying Moe won't be successful in the NBA, but there is certainly no guarantee that he will be an elite talent in the NBA to garner Westbrook money after his rookie salary contract runs out.

Quote from: crgreen on March 15, 2012, 01:17:14 PM

Quote from: yankcranker on March 15, 2012, 01:01:21 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on March 14, 2012, 03:53:34 PM

This here is wisdom.

The real wisdom would be having wise people around you that were not short sighted and didn't see the big picture for your future.

Think about the difference between making say $5.3mm or making $3.3mm because that is the difference between the 10th pick and the 21st pick in the NBA Draft.

If Moe has one bad workout he could fall to 2nd Rd and not even get guaranteed money.

10th pick actually makes $5.85mill in first three years.  I was comparing it to 25 pick and that's $2.9mill over first three years.  Double the money to me makes it a no brainer but as Theo points out I'm not of need, never have been.  But Mo is certainly not a can't miss prospect.  His first contract could very well be the best one he ever gets.  Don't understand why his advisors don't see it would be worth the year to make sure it's as large as possible.  Most of us will make over $2.9 mill in our careers but I'm betting far fewer will make $5.8 mill.  It's a substantial difference.  Especially if you're supporting a troop of hangers on (or kids LOL).   I'm sure Mo will make a decent living if he goes this year and if he doesn't make it in the NBA will collect a check making ball somewhere for the next 10 years.  But a lottery contract helps set you up for life.

UCLA had two klids go early last year - Tyler Honeycutt (soph)  and Malcolm Lee (Jr).  Both went in the 2nd round.   But both ended up with guaranteed contracts - about 3 mill apiece.  Tyler with the Kings, Malcolm with the Twolves.

One other thing when figuring $$$$'s - is the value of the 2nd contract.  Getting to that 2nd contract one or two years earlier than if you stay in college.    Russell Westbrook just signed his 2nd contract - it's for $80 mill over 5 year s- $16 million a year.   Under his rookie contract (top 5 pick), he made 4 million this year in his 3rd yer of the contract.  Figuring his career has a finite end on matter when it starts, if he had stayed at UCLA another year, that's TWELVE MILLION DOLLARS for the coming year he would have lost, that he could never regain.

I think it's also fair to point out that Russell Westbrook has been a total stud from day 1 of his NBA career.  Not saying Moe won't be successful in the NBA, but there is certainly no guarantee that he will be an elite talent in the NBA to garner Westbrook money after his rookie salary contract runs out.

That's really the point I was getting at as well.  Omar Cook's second contract wasn't quite up to Westbrook's standards so maybe one more year for a better first contract would have served him better.  But in reality no kid is willing to admit they're more like Omar than Russell.

Quote from: crgreen on March 15, 2012, 01:17:14 PM

Quote from: yankcranker on March 15, 2012, 01:01:21 PM

Quote from: pmg911 on March 14, 2012, 03:53:34 PM

This here is wisdom.

The real wisdom would be having wise people around you that were not short sighted and didn't see the big picture for your future.

Think about the difference between making say $5.3mm or making $3.3mm because that is the difference between the 10th pick and the 21st pick in the NBA Draft.

If Moe has one bad workout he could fall to 2nd Rd and not even get guaranteed money.

10th pick actually makes $5.85mill in first three years.  I was comparing it to 25 pick and that's $2.9mill over first three years.  Double the money to me makes it a no brainer but as Theo points out I'm not of need, never have been.  But Mo is certainly not a can't miss prospect.  His first contract could very well be the best one he ever gets.  Don't understand why his advisors don't see it would be worth the year to make sure it's as large as possible.  Most of us will make over $2.9 mill in our careers but I'm betting far fewer will make $5.8 mill.  It's a substantial difference.  Especially if you're supporting a troop of hangers on (or kids LOL).   I'm sure Mo will make a decent living if he goes this year and if he doesn't make it in the NBA will collect a check making ball somewhere for the next 10 years.  But a lottery contract helps set you up for life.

UCLA had two klids go early last year - Tyler Honeycutt (soph)  and Malcolm Lee (Jr).  Both went in the 2nd round.   But both ended up with guaranteed contracts - about 3 mill apiece.  Tyler with the Kings, Malcolm with the Twolves.

One other thing when figuring $$$$'s - is the value of the 2nd contract.  Getting to that 2nd contract one or two years earlier than if you stay in college.    Russell Westbrook just signed his 2nd contract - it's for $80 mill over 5 year s- $16 million a year.   Under his rookie contract (top 5 pick), he made 4 million this year in his 3rd yer of the contract.  Figuring his career has a finite end on matter when it starts, if he had stayed at UCLA another year, that's TWELVE MILLION DOLLARS for the coming year he would have lost, that he could never regain.

But cr, there are some current theories that many players bodies will break down by a certain range of NBA games played, regardless of when players come out (much like NFL running backs).


So if guys stay in college another year, they'll only be able to play a certain # of games within a range that their body will allow anyway, so they might as well use another year in school to get stronger and enjoy the limited game schedule and practice more.


I'm not dismissing the opportunity cost in the equation, just offering an alternative view I've read that some stat guys out there have mentioned.

At that point (body break down) you pull a Luke Walton and hang onto scrub minutes for superstar pay for as long as you can.   Assuming you're in a multi year deal when the breakdown occurs - which is more than likely.

Walton is making 5.6 million dollars this year.  He's scored 12 pts on the season.  $466,000 a point.   

“@moe_harkless: The best feeling is doing something people say you can't do”

“@moe_harkless: The best feeling is doing something people say you can't do”

Could be referring to going to the NBA even though most people are saying he shouldnt.

“@moe_harkless: The best feeling is doing something people say you can't do”

Oh oh. Quick, everyone text, email and/or tweet Moe telling him that he can't come back to SJU!   

Quote from: paultzman on March 15, 2012, 03:18:20 PM

“@moe_harkless: The best feeling is doing something people say you can't do”

Could be referring to going to the NBA even though most people are saying he shouldnt.

Could mean he just got a date with Kate Upton as well.

“@moe_harkless: The best feeling is doing something people say you can't do”

Mo setting up straw-man. No one would tell him he can't, because it's obvious he can. What I'm thinking is he'll be the skinniest kid in the league, and no outside shot to boot. Will he be getting to the rim? Is he a shutdown defender? Is there anything he can do out of the gate for an NBA team? I would hope Mo would not take any questions about his game as an insult.

There is ONE person telling Moe to go to the NBA and he is doing it for his own reasons. Everyone thinks he is a good guy and loves following him on Twitter.

There is ONE person telling Moe to go to the NBA and he is doing it for his own reasons. Everyone thinks he is a good guy and loves following him on Twitter.

  Wonder who that could be?...

jim boheim?

Not to sound like an old record, but I hope Moe does what is best for him.  Whether that's staying for another year at St. John's or jumping to the NBA, Moe and only Moe needs to be comfortable with the decision.  The money will be waiting for him whether he chooses to leave this year, next year, or the year after that.  All that matters if he thinks he is ready for the lifestyle change.

To all saying they understand doing this for the money if his family needs it, I hear you, but supposedly his mother wants him to stay.  If your mom wants you to stay, then in my opinion, throw the "need the money immediately" argument out the window.  If she's not being shortsighted, why should he - he's got room and board and food paid for by school.

if his Mom needed the money on the other hand, then I agree completely with Theo et al.  But that's not the case here.

Is Moe 21 yet? 

Not that it's a big deal, but from a lifestyle perspective going to the NBA at a young age with grown men can be a bit of shock.  Moe seems like a cool, chill dude. i wonder if mentally he's prepared to make that jump. only him and his mom know for sure.

Chad Ford's latest on Moe has him as the 26th best prospect in the draft:

"Mar 9 Update: Harkless looks like he's entering the draft. Scouts love Harkless and he put on a show in Madison Square Garden on Tuesday. Harkless had 25 points, 11 rebounds and even knocked down a rare 3-pointer. One scout called him a poor man's Michael Kidd-Gilchrist -- which actually is a pretty serious compliment. If he could shoot, he'd be a lottery pick. But as it stands, there's still a good chance he goes somewhere in the mid- to late first round."

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/players/news/_/id/19780/moe-harkless