2013-2014 Schedule

Also, I think the poll is much more optimistic than you suggest.

43% of the student population goes to 4+ games a year?   If only!

And another 20% goes to 2-3 games a year?      That adds up to huge numbers.    The respondents to this poll are forecasting what they'd like to be able to say, not what they actually do. 

Joe, I think you're using diversity as a scapegoat, be careful about that.

USC and UCLA are nearly as diverse as St Johns.  Attendance at college sports is like any other business though; you need to compete in the marketplace.   Have a good product, market it well, set competitive prices, distribute it appropriately.    We've had a terrible product for a decade, for a long time the athletic department was a mom and pop shop when it came to PR and marketing, and the campus isn't connected to the arena where we play most of our games.    That's a recipe for failure.

I would imagine you could be very successful even if you have one or two of those things going against you, but not when you can't check any of the boxes.   

Doesn't UCLA have a notoriously bad amount of fan turnout?

Also, if 28% of 3000 is 840 students.  There is no way over 5500 students attend every St. Johns home game which is what those numbers would be extrapolated over the entire student population.

Quote from: desco80 on May 14, 2013, 11:00:06 PM

Joe, I think you're using diversity as a scapegoat, be careful about that.

USC and UCLA are nearly as diverse as St Johns.  Attendance at college sports is like any other business though; you need to compete in the marketplace.   Have a good product, market it well, set competitive prices, distribute it appropriately.    We've had a terrible product for a decade, for a long time the athletic department was a mom and pop shop when it came to PR and marketing, and the campus isn't connected to the arena where we play most of our games.    That's a recipe for failure.

I would imagine you could be very successful even if you have one or two of those things going against you, but not when you can't check any of the boxes.   

Doesn't UCLA have a notoriously bad amount of fan turnout?

I think they do lately.   But bad for them is different than bad for us I would imagine.   But I could be wrong.
It's like when Duke students get chided by Dickie V because every game isn't a sellout, just 80% full.  We would love to have that problem haha.

Joe, I think you're using diversity as a scapegoat, be careful about that.

USC and UCLA are nearly as diverse as St Johns.  Attendance at college sports is like any other business though; you need to compete in the marketplace.   Have a good product, market it well, set competitive prices, distribute it appropriately.    We've had a terrible product for a decade, for a long time the athletic department was a mom and pop shop when it came to PR and marketing, and the campus isn't connected to the arena where we play most of our games.    That's a recipe for failure.

I would imagine you could be very successful even if you have one or two of those things going against you, but not when you can't check any of the boxes.   

No doubt it's not just one factor...the things you mentioned also are part of the reason, but when you have so much diversity with tons of people from out of the country, they are bound to have different cultures where college basketball is the last thing on their list of importance. You mentioned UCLA and USC, but go look at the fans at their games. I guarantee you that the students who attend the games are MUCH more homogenous than the entire school's population. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just making observations here.

And you're right Mase.  I just looked it up.   UCLA's attendance is about what ours is per game.   
I can't explain that.     

But I really don't think diversity is the issue.   Doesn't hurt the Knicks.   You'd be hard pressed to find a slice of the city that doesn't like basketball.    I went to the Knicks' playoff game two weekends ago and the row behind me were guys I'm assuming were from Russia/Ukraine, the guys sitting next to me were Asian, and the group in front of us were Israeli.    I really believe it all comes down to putting a crappy product out there, charging non-competitive prices, and then doing a poor job of marketing it.   If St Johns basketball were a broadway production, they'd be playing in front of an empty house.  It's not just sports. 

Quote from: RedStormyNight on May 14, 2013, 10:30:33 PM

Sorry if this isn't the appropriate place but I thought everyone would find this interesting. The poll is from over 3,000 students so it's significant. Notice how many students don't even like basketball it's the 2nd most popular choice. It supports my hypothesis that such stark diversity may impact our attendance numbers. This says nearly 1/4 of the polled students don't even care.

Those numbers are probably fairly consistent with what most schools would be.  I have a hard time believing 3000 students actually participated in such a poll though.  I don't even know where that poll is from but 3000 is a lot considering not even close to that many students complete their professor evaluation surveys.

Actually most students do complete the evaluations because SJ is absolutely relentless with them. If you don't complete them they email you multiple times a week purposely spamming your email until you do them. Annoying, but effective.

Quote from: STJ11Redmen on May 14, 2013, 10:58:13 PM

Quote from: RedStormyNight on May 14, 2013, 10:30:33 PM

Sorry if this isn't the appropriate place but I thought everyone would find this interesting. The poll is from over 3,000 students so it's significant. Notice how many students don't even like basketball it's the 2nd most popular choice. It supports my hypothesis that such stark diversity may impact our attendance numbers. This says nearly 1/4 of the polled students don't even care.

Those numbers are probably fairly consistent with what most schools would be.  I have a hard time believing 3000 students actually participated in such a poll though.  I don't even know where that poll is from but 3000 is a lot considering not even close to that many students complete their professor evaluation surveys.

Actually most students do complete the evaluations because SJ is absolutely relentless with them. If you don't complete them they email you multiple times a week purposely spamming your email until you do them. Annoying, but effective.

It's not effective.
 "When asked about last year’s rate of completion for student evaluations, Hall admitted it was much lower than the University would like to see, with only 43 percent of students completing evaluations"

http://www.torchonline.com/uncategorized/2011/03/30/community-reacts-to-new-course-evaluation-format/

And they hound you less now than they used to.  They used to send a separate e-mail for each class in which you didn't complete it.  Now they just send one e-mail with all the links.

And you're right Mase.  I just looked it up.   UCLA's attendance is about what ours is per game.   
I can't explain that.     

But I really don't think diversity is the issue.   Doesn't hurt the Knicks.   You'd be hard pressed to find a slice of the city that doesn't like basketball.    I went to the Knicks' playoff game two weekends ago and the row behind me were guys I'm assuming were from Russia/Ukraine, the guys sitting next to me were Asian, and the group in front of us were Israeli.    I really believe it all comes down to putting a crappy product out there, charging non-competitive prices, and then doing a poor job of marketing it.   If St Johns basketball were a broadway production, they'd be playing in front of an empty house.  It's not just sports. 

Exactly Desco. If we win fans will turn out. It's not that hard to figure out. If we ever again make it to two NCAA's in a row the fans will really start to show.

Sorry if this isn't the appropriate place but I thought everyone would find this interesting. The poll is from over 3,000 students so it's significant. Notice how many students don't even like basketball it's the 2nd most popular choice. It supports my hypothesis that such stark diversity may impact our attendance numbers. This says nearly 1/4 of the polled students don't even care.

St.John's students are different. They said it themselves in their tv commercial. Worst case, they have no pride/self respect, and best case, they're front runners.

I think another major factor is the culture of a commuter campus that only attracts students 50 miles away or less. Thankfully that's slowly going away and I see more and more out of state license plates and people living on campus. Of course if we win big we will draw no matter what, but I think diversity negatively impacts attendance for the gray area when we are decent and competitive but not great. Other schools still get great attendance when they are decent NIT caliber teams. Don't forget we were firmly on the NCAA bubble until very late. The fans still didn't show up. I was more of a fan 50 miles away than most students living on campus.

Since we will be halfway across the country maybe our annual west coast road game will be part of the ESPN marathon that following Tuesday.  That'd be a tough start to the season playing 2 tough games away from home but logistically it may make sense and Lavin likes those marathon games.

Quote from: desco80 on May 14, 2013, 11:00:06 PM

Joe, I think you're using diversity as a scapegoat, be careful about that.

USC and UCLA are nearly as diverse as St Johns.  Attendance at college sports is like any other business though; you need to compete in the marketplace.   Have a good product, market it well, set competitive prices, distribute it appropriately.    We've had a terrible product for a decade, for a long time the athletic department was a mom and pop shop when it came to PR and marketing, and the campus isn't connected to the arena where we play most of our games.    That's a recipe for failure.

I would imagine you could be very successful even if you have one or two of those things going against you, but not when you can't check any of the boxes.   

Doesn't UCLA have a notoriously bad amount of fan turnout?

Terrible.  It seems the one constant is that big cities (with other entertainment options) just don't draw that well compared to intermediate cities likey Syracuse, Dayton, or Omaha. 

http://www.ciachef.edu/basketball/

Can we schedule the Culinary Institute of America for an exhibition? I guarantee you that would be entertaining. According to their site "The 2010–11 and 2011–12 seasons were solid, as the team finished 5–10 and 4–10 respectively, good for fifth place in the conference both years."

PSU with a big loss:

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. -- Penn State guard Jermaine Marshall, the team's second-leading scorer, is foregoing his senior year of eligibility to pursue a professional career overseas.

PSU with a big loss:

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. -- Penn State guard Jermaine Marshall, the team's second-leading scorer, is foregoing his senior year of eligibility to pursue a professional career overseas.

Dumb move by Marshall, they would have been good with him this year, and made the tourney

Hopefully our skinnies don't get hurt by the Bratwurst Bruisers of Wisconsin! 

Hopefully our skinnies don't get hurt by the Bratwurst Bruisers of Wisconsin! 

Bruisers will be going up against the best shotblocking team in the country, skinny or not.  We're also adding a stout God's Gift and Orlando Sanchez to our frontline.  Not sure we are so skinny?

It's 5 in the morn and already mcn is bringin the wisdom from pa.

Quote from: Celtics11 on May 17, 2013, 12:20:23 AM

Hopefully our skinnies don't get hurt by the Bratwurst Bruisers of Wisconsin! 

Bruisers will be going up against the best shotblocking team in the country, skinny or not.  We're also adding a stout God's Gift and Orlando Sanchez to our frontline.  Not sure we are so skinny?

those viking decedents also lost a bit of beef from last year's line-up.  it will be a great first game for us.