6th Man of St. John's Basketball
St. John's Red Storm => In The Jungle... => Topic started by: desco80 on March 06, 2012, 10:31:39 PM
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I figure this is going to be a topic for awhile till a decision is announced, so we might as well consolidate the threads...
I also didn't realize Moe talked about it in the post game press conference...
"St. John's forward Moe Harkless admitted to reporters that he is considering a jump to the NBA.
"I'm gonna sit down and talk to my coaches about it," said Harkless"
http://espn.go.com/new-york/ncb/story/_/id/7654238/moe-harkless-st-john-red-storm-consider-entering-nba-draft (http://espn.go.com/new-york/ncb/story/_/id/7654238/moe-harkless-st-john-red-storm-consider-entering-nba-draft)
I think he has some good people around him who will advise Moe to stay, and I'm not just saying that because it's what's best for StJ. This is one of those cases where I think Moe actually has a lot to gain by returning (financially). If were being honest about it.. the coaches on the pro level can teach him anything Rico and Dunlap would, but the difference between 2nd round and lottery is millions in guaranteed money. That'll be the difference maker.
Plus, when you get the lottery-sized contract, teams nurture their investment more. Second rounders are expendable.
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He didn't talk about it in the press conference but afterwards was available for interview in the locker room. No one brought it up in the press conference, I for one didn't want to plant the seed.
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He didn't talk about it in the press conference but afterwards was available for interview in the locker room. No one brought it up in the press conference, I for one didn't want to plant the seed.
Ok, well done then Dave ! lol They made it sound like he brought it up himself in the press conference. But that makes more sense. Still his other comments they quoted make it sound like he's not considering it too hard.
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I respect any decision he makes, but I think one more year could definitely help him.
He'll be able to refine his perimeter skills a little more (assuming Lavin does indeed bring in some bigs) which he'll be playing in the pros (rather than a 4/5 like he did all year for us)
He WON'T be a lottery pick IMO in this deep draft, whereas he could possibly be next season.
Just don't think he's ready in terms of consistency.
But regardless, thanks for the year Moe and best of luck in anything you decide.
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He has to consider it. That's the right thing to do. He should know where he stands. If it's #34, like Chad Ford suggests, he'll return, because he's not a hot head like Omar Cook.
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Our season next year hinges on his decision. Whatever it is I respect his decision. I hope he stays, but won't blame him for going. It's not everyday you have an opportunity to make NBA money, and a lot can happen in a year.
However, I will say, my personal wishes aside, he needs another year to get stronger and play college ball. A lot of players with potential make the mistake of jumping before they are ready, I fear that he would be one of them.
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With the Nba lockout this year, there has to a glut of players that would have left early but had no choice but to remain in school. Making this the absolute worse time for Moe to go pro. If he stays and even has a comporable year to this season, he'll move way up in the draft on numbers alone.
Do the right thing Moe. Come back and lead us to the promise land. Just like MOEses. :up:
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If he is a first round pick GOOD BYE. If he is a second round pick WELCOME BACK WELCOME BACK WELCOME BACK. But I think the team will be fine with out him. We need another pg another shooter( which I doubt we get) and two more bigs 6'7+ . I wanna see Dom and Amir improve their handle and shooting. Green get a damn break down move( how can u be from Chicago and can't boogie on your defender?!) and gods gift get tougher. Also Mr Harrison get a left hand. All he does is go right.
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IMO college basketball gives you the spotlight but I dont always see the coalition that going or staying in college basketball makes you a better pro player It is a fact the NBA has the best coaches & the best tools for being successful in basketball.And I am a strong believer in the better the competition you play against the better you will become.
Also the D-league is getting better & better every year really allows the best of both worlds for player development because it allows the players to get reps in a minor league system that mirrors their parents teams system.
In Harkless situation he didn't have the hype of the Mcd-All Americans but proved he is better or on par with them because of the NCAA spotlight & has passed his rights of passage to the NBA. This will only helps Lavin with recruiting & we will see Harkless number in the Carnesecca rafters a stellar pro career
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IMO college basketball gives you the spotlight but I dont always see the coalition that going or staying in college basketball makes you a better pro player It is a fact the NBA has the best coaches & the best tools for being successful in basketball.And I am a strong believer in the better the competition you play against the better you will become.
Also the D-league is getting better & better every year really allows the best of both worlds for player development because it allows the players to get reps in a minor league system that mirrors their parents teams system.
In Harkless situation he didn't have the hype of the Mcd-All Americans but proved he is better or on par with them because of the NCAA spotlight & has passed his rights of passage to the NBA. This will only helps Lavin with recruiting & we will see Harkless number in the Carnesecca rafters a stellar pro career
I strongly disagree. There are a lot of players that could use another year of development by playing 40min. a game in college than getting 10 min. a game in the NBA to start off the bench. The goal should be to have your game well-rounded by the time you reach the league. Moe's not there yet. How many players besides Jeremy Lin have come out of the D-League and made big impacts on their teams? Not many.
The guy that seems eerily similar to Harkless that I think about is Anthony Randolph. He averaged very similar numbers to Harkless in college, but his game was so raw, he simply wasn't ready to go up against NBA talent and it showed. Had he taken another year of college I think he would've been stronger, and gotten the experience he would need to play in the NBA. Now, he still has the talent and potential to make a name for himself in the NBA, but I think he cost himself a year of valuable experience by jumping too early, and I feel Harkless may do the same. Randolph's been in the league for 4 years, he's only 22 and has spent most of his NBA career on the bench. Do any of you really think Harkless is ready to go bang with the NBA forwards? The raw talent is there, but he needs to refine his game. He needs to develop a better jumper and tighten up his handle.
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IMO college basketball gives you the spotlight but I dont always see the coalition that going or staying in college basketball makes you a better pro player ...
You are absolutely right. It is a fallacy. In fact there has been a study done on it and there is no overall correlation. People act like there aren't coaches available in the NBA to help a player improve his jumpshot or there aren't weight rooms available in NBA practice facilities to make a player stronger.
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Staying the extra year isn't about improving strength or his jumpshot, those will improve whether he is here or in the NBA, it's just that it may be a wise investment for him to wait another year and get drafted higher than he would this year. The higher you are drafted, the more the franchise has invested in you and that means they will give you every opportunity to succeed, which he may not have if he is a late first/ early 2nd round pick. Not to mention the increase in salary between the 30th pick and 10th pick is pretty drastic.
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late first round...early second round leaves him in the omar cook, erich barkley situation.
he can go in the lottery next year and get some nice guaranteed money. he's too inconsistant to be a lottery pick this year. no brainer here.
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late first round...early second round leaves him in the omar cook, erich barkley situation.
he can go in the lottery next year and get some nice guaranteed money. he's too inconsistant to be a lottery pick this year. no brainer here.
I agree.
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If he's content with being a first round pick then he's likely gone. I can't imagine an NBA team not taking him in the late first round, just way too much potential there. He would have to really not show well in workouts for that to happen.
But next year he's likely a top 10 pick. Maybe higher.
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Is anyone here familiar with the European players? How many are planning on entering the draft?
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Two words: Omar & Cook. And Cook was better than Harkless.
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Two words: Omar & Cook. And Cook was better than Harkless.
Was he? I'm not quite sure.
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IMO college basketball gives you the spotlight but I dont always see the coalition that going or staying in college basketball makes you a better pro player ...
You are absolutely right. It is a fallacy. In fact there has been a study done on it and there is no overall correlation. People act like there aren't coaches available in the NBA to help a player improve his jumpshot or there aren't weight rooms available in NBA practice facilities to make a player stronger.
Completely agree with both of you. Think of it this way -- is an athlete going to improve more in an "amateur" setting; where he's limited to 2 hours of practice per day, can't see his coaches all summer, and has to also attend school in the process? Or will he see better coaching/instruction when his only job is basketball? It's the latter no question. But the amount of guaranteed money is a serious factor, and if it's not there I would advise Moe to return.
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IMO college basketball gives you the spotlight but I dont always see the coalition that going or staying in college basketball makes you a better pro player ...
You are absolutely right. It is a fallacy. In fact there has been a study done on it and there is no overall correlation. People act like there aren't coaches available in the NBA to help a player improve his jumpshot or there aren't weight rooms available in NBA practice facilities to make a player stronger.
Completely agree with both of you. Think of it this way -- is an athlete going to improve more in an "amateur" setting; where he's limited to 2 hours of practice per day, can't see his coaches all summer, and has to also attend school in the process? Or will he see better coaching/instruction when his only job is basketball? It's the latter no question. But the amount of guaranteed money is a serious factor, and if it's not there I would advise Moe to return.
1) guaranteed money is a big factor
2) bigger exposure helps to give free marketing to a player which can lead to better draft positioning
3) players get a LOT more training and fundamentals improvement than you realize in college
4). Most that are successful leaving early or skipping all together are sooo über-talented that they succeed regardless.
I personally believe that the preparation college ball provides is underrated. I think that even Michael Jordan would tell you that. Tons of guys go on to good pro careers only because of what college had to offer. How many looks was Jameer Nelson going to get if he didn't go to college? How much better would Mo Harkless have been had he skipped college and gone to the NBDL and does anybody think he'd really have been talked about this much had he done so? I could go on and on, but the benefits of attending and staying in college at least 2 years IMO are too numerous to ignore. Most kids would not develop skipping college all together and riding some pine in a developmental league somewhere.
In Moe's case, he did himself a huge service by attending SJU this season. He certainly wouldn't be making a bad decision fine leaves this year. I think he'd be making a much better decision for logistical purposes. If he leaves after one more season, he can erase any doubts and work his way from bottom of the first/beginning of second round into lottery if he does I believe. Especially if he's as good as I thnk he can be. Riding the pine in the NBA is a lot more fun with lottery-pick money.
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http://www.hoopsworld.com/2012-13-rookie-salary-scale (http://www.hoopsworld.com/2012-13-rookie-salary-scale)
The difference between late first round and late lottery is ~$1M per year. But $850k x 2 years gauranteed (30th overall pick) is still worth a serious look.
Best indication that he'll stay is that Charlie Villanueva faced the same situation in 2004: probably a late first rounder as a frosh who stayed for his soph year and was the 7th overall pick in 2005.
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Two words: Omar & Cook. And Cook was better than Harkless.
Was he? I'm not quite sure.
I think Cook gave us an advantage at point guard in every single game. I wish he was as smart off the court as he was on it. From UK, to Uconn, to BC, to GTown, to Nova, he came to play against the big boys. Yes, he had more depth on his team, but he didn't have a lot of talent.
If I remember correctly, Bangura was so bad at first that Shaw started. With him I think were Glover, Jessie and Cuffe. Not exactly an imposing front line. There wasn't much help from the bench in the way of offense, but some of those guys played defense.
Cook was tremendous, but the NBA doesn't often take guys in the first round who lose to Fordham and Hofstra. As great as he was he could be equally terrible. He was a freshman, but that never occurred to him.
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Anyone else think he is a top 10 pick right now? His potential is off the charts. Although next year, he's the # 1 pick imo
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Two words: Omar & Cook. And Cook was better than Harkless.
Was he? I'm not quite sure.
I think Cook gave us an advantage at point guard in every single game. I wish he was as smart off the court as he was on it. From UK, to Uconn, to BC, to GTown, to Nova, he came to play against the big boys. Yes, he had more depth on his team, but he didn't have a lot of talent.
If I remember correctly, Bangura was so bad at first that Shaw started. With him I think were Glover, Jessie and Cuffe. Not exactly an imposing front line. There wasn't much help from the bench in the way of offense, but some of those guys played defense.
Cook was tremendous, but the NBA doesn't often take guys in the first round who lose to Fordham and Hofstra. As great as he was he could be equally terrible. He was a freshman, but that never occurred to him.
Shaw started because him and Omar knew eachother well from AAU circuits and played off eachother tremendously. I think Alpha came the next year but I could very well be wrong with that. Cuffe and Glover were solid up front IMO. That team underachieved because of the incompetency of Jarvis I feel. No doubt Cook was the goods. If he stayed with Hatten I can only imagine the damage we could have done.
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Just THIS SECOND got this info...MO might test the waters but hes 99% coming back. Suprisingly his premeier concern was being able to play at the 3/4 and never the 5 and wated some assurences that a big was being brought in.
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Anyone else think he is a top 10 pick right now? His potential is off the charts. Although next year, he's the # 1 pick imo
I don't think he's in the Top 10 now. I do think he would be first round pick but once you get out of the lottery you can end up anywhere, including 28 or 29. Next year no question in my mind he's Top 10 pick.
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Just THIS SECOND got this info...MO might test the waters but hes 99% coming back. Suprisingly his premeier concern was being able to play at the 3/4 and never the 5 and wated some assurences that a big was being brought in.
But he can' test the waters anymore. Once you declare you can no longer come back. The rules sadly have changed.
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Just THIS SECOND got this info...MO might test the waters but hes 99% coming back. Suprisingly his premeier concern was being able to play at the 3/4 and never the 5 and wated some assurences that a big was being brought in.
But he can' test the waters anymore. Once you declare you can no longer come back. The rules sadly have changed.
He can get an idea from coaches and advisors though.
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Just THIS SECOND got this info...MO might test the waters but hes 99% coming back. Suprisingly his premeier concern was being able to play at the 3/4 and never the 5 and wated some assurences that a big was being brought in.
But he can' test the waters anymore. Once you declare you can no longer come back. The rules sadly have changed.
This is great news. I assume by "test the waters" he just means talking to scouts/coaches/etc. to get an idea of where he would be drafted, but not "declare without hiring an agent" as kids have typically done in years past.
Sounds like we really need Obekpa or another real big body to ensure his return...
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Just THIS SECOND got this info...MO might test the waters but hes 99% coming back. Suprisingly his premeier concern was being able to play at the 3/4 and never the 5 and wated some assurences that a big was being brought in.
This is great news. I think we can be a very good team with Moe next year. Without Moe we are an average to good team depending on what recruits we land.
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Just THIS SECOND got this info...MO might test the waters but hes 99% coming back. Suprisingly his premeier concern was being able to play at the 3/4 and never the 5 and wated some assurences that a big was being brought in.
But he can' test the waters anymore. Once you declare you can no longer come back. The rules sadly have changed.
I don't think that's right. I think the window to withdraw has gotten much shorter but you can still declare once and come back.
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Just THIS SECOND got this info...MO might test the waters but hes 99% coming back. Suprisingly his premeier concern was being able to play at the 3/4 and never the 5 and wated some assurences that a big was being brought in.
But he can' test the waters anymore. Once you declare you can no longer come back. The rules sadly have changed.
Can't speak for 7- but I think he means that he will put out feelers to see where he currently can get drafted. I would think if he is not a lock to go by the mid 20's, he will be back. This is a very smart kid and wants the best for the future, not just getting a 3 year contract then out of the league.
You are correct once you declare no turning back.
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Just THIS SECOND got this info...MO might test the waters but hes 99% coming back. Suprisingly his premeier concern was being able to play at the 3/4 and never the 5 and wated some assurences that a big was being brought in.
But he can' test the waters anymore. Once you declare you can no longer come back. The rules sadly have changed.
This is great news. I assume by "test the waters" he just means talking to scouts/coaches/etc. to get an idea of where he would be drafted, but not "declare without hiring an agent" as kids have typically done in years past.
Sounds like we really need Obekpa or another real big body to ensure his return...
Players get an opportunity to work out in front of NBA teams and get feedback where they need to improve. Mo will hear he needs to improve his strength and gain 10+ lbs, improve his handle, and polish up his 15-20 footer.
That being said, us knowing the hard worker he is, I see Mo going as high as #3 up to #10-12 in the lottery in 2013 depending on his improvement next season. Effectively, much like other players who strategically stay, he'll be earning money while staying in school. I'm surprised the 2A doesn't crack down on that too - :2funny:
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I know it was far from ideal but Moe should know that his ability to play with teams like Duke for example inside will only help him when he eventually plays in the league. He was asked to play inside, and he pulled down over 8 boards per game.
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I take moe over sullinger
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I thought u can only test the waters once and that's it
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I thought u can only test the waters once and that's it
That's right.
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I thought u can only test the waters once and that's it
That's right.
Don't know what's right but on the broadcast yesterday they said there's no turning back. Once you declare, you're in.
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I thought u can only test the waters once and that's it
That's right.
Don't know what's right but on the broadcast yesterday they said there's no turning back. Once you declare, you're in.
But before declaration, the feedback from the various NBA sources helps give a little clearer picture of how the player stands in terms of development and where they need to go.
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nbadraft.net has him as the #15 prospect THIS year. That could be a problem for us.
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nbadraft.net has him as the #15 prospect THIS year. That could be a problem for us.
As Dave says, DraftExpress is usually more current and on top of things. He's at 1st pick of 2nd round w/ DraftExpress
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I thought u can only test the waters once and that's it
That's right.
Don't know what's right but on the broadcast yesterday they said there's no turning back. Once you declare, you're in.
Correct. They said it multiple times. And during the night session as well.
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His mom wants him to stay..that's gotta count for something, no?
Paul Schwartz @NYPost_Schwartz Close
The mother of freshman Moe Harkless wants him to stay at St. John's and not leave for the NBA, and so does...
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/hey_moe_don_go_pro_jnFuJE3s982mvafmMllrvI (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/hey_moe_don_go_pro_jnFuJE3s982mvafmMllrvI)
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His mom wants him to stay..that's gotta count for something, no?
Paul Schwartz @NYPost_Schwartz Close
The mother of freshman Moe Harkless wants him to stay at St. John's and not leave for the NBA, and so does...
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/hey_moe_don_go_pro_jnFuJE3s982mvafmMllrvI (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/hey_moe_don_go_pro_jnFuJE3s982mvafmMllrvI)
Reading this just made me chuckle and almost shed a tear at the same time. My uncle just recently passed away and one of my last conversations with him was about moe harkless. As he lay on his stretcher we had a heated debate of whether he goes pro or stays, he grew up and was very good friends with moe's mother rosa and knew his detached father also from southside
jamaica queens and swore to me if I thought moe was leaving I was out of my mind and must not know his mother. He told me how moe's mom was no joke and that if moe thought he was one and done she would go upside his head as many times as she needed to until she knocked some sense into him.
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I believe the rules on the NBA side did not change under the new CBA that was signed in December.
The NCAA however put some more restrictions requiring that the possible early entrant formally withdraw by no later then May 8th. And also the NBA allows that player to withdraw twice, however the NCAA does not. The NCAA only allows that player to do it once and still keep his eligiblity:
"Early entry" Players who are not automatically eligible, but wish to be drafted, must declare their eligibility no later than 60 days before the draft.[12] After this date, "early entry" players may attend NBA pre-draft camps and individual team workouts to show off their skills and obtain feedback regarding their draft positions. Under the CBA, a player may withdraw his name from consideration from the draft at any time before the final declaration date, which is 10 days before the draft.[13] However, the NCAA adopted a rule that took effect in August 2009 that requires players at its member institutions to withdraw no later than May 8 to retain their college eligibility; the first draft affected by this rule was the 2010 draft.[14] A player who declares for the draft will lose his college eligibility, even if he is not drafted, if any of the following is true:
The player signs with an agent.[15]
The player has declared for and withdrawn from a previous draft. Although the NBA collective bargaining agreement allows a player to withdraw twice,[13] the NCAA only allows a player to enter the draft once without losing eligibility.[14]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eligibility_for_the_NBA_Draft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eligibility_for_the_NBA_Draft)
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Anyone else think he is a top 10 pick right now? His potential is off the charts. Although next year, he's the # 1 pick imo
Nah I don't think he's in the top 10 now, 20-25 would be my guess. But I don't think he'd slip to the second round either, unless he performed real poorly in workouts.
Next year is tough to say - but he would need to make a HUGE jump to be a top 5 pick in my eyes. He would need to really show he could create from the wing, and shoot from there as well. The 3 spot on the wing is loaded with skill in the NBA. If you're 6'10 it's a different story because PFs like Favors and Derrick Williams get drafted high on athleticism alone.
But at SF you need to create. Moes got the body of a Rudy Gay, Danny Granger, Loul Deng type of guy. But those players can operate like a guard with the ball in their hands. That's the next step for Moe in my mind.
Hope it happens.
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see devin ebanks who came out after one year and is the same size and rots on the laker bench.
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Just THIS SECOND got this info...MO might test the waters but hes 99% coming back. Suprisingly his premeier concern was being able to play at the 3/4 and never the 5 and wated some assurences that a big was being brought in.
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That might end up being the most interesting part of the story. Because we know the staff doesn't see Gift as a starter.
So what's it going to take to answer Moe's concerns? Would another combo forward like Jakarr be enough? Or does he want to see 2 more post players on the team besides himself?
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All I gotta say about testing the water is....
V V Brown - Shark In The Water (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPQlxHWsemI#noexternalembed-ws)
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Just THIS SECOND got this info...MO might test the waters but hes 99% coming back. Suprisingly his premeier concern was being able to play at the 3/4 and never the 5 and wated some assurences that a big was being brought in.
[/b]
That might end up being the most interesting part of the story. Because we know the staff doesn't see Gift as a starter.
So what's it going to take to answer Moe's concerns? Would another combo forward like Jakarr be enough? Or does he want to see 2 more post players on the team besides himself?
I think picking up Obekpa would address Moe's concern.
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I think next year is most definitely Top 5 in the draft. But if he needs the money now I totally understand, I hope he listens to his momma though.
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Staying the extra year isn't about improving strength or his jumpshot, those will improve whether he is here or in the NBA, it's just that it may be a wise investment for him to wait another year and get drafted higher than he would this year. The higher you are drafted, the more the franchise has invested in you and that means they will give you every opportunity to succeed, which he may not have if he is a late first/ early 2nd round pick. Not to mention the increase in salary between the 30th pick and 10th pick is pretty drastic.
+1 for that, I love to argue but you shut me up good point
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see devin ebanks who came out after one year and is the same size and rots on the laker bench.
He didn't come out after one year
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All I gotta say about testing the water is....
V V Brown - Shark In The Water (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPQlxHWsemI#noexternalembed-ws)
Choz,
Thanks for turning me on to V V. I think I'm in love. Hope Moe steers clear of the shark.
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He does not have enough tatoos to play in the NBA and he seems smart enough to listen to his mom.
I just hope Christopher O is as smart as Moe and comes to this program.
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Anyone else think he is a top 10 pick right now? His potential is off the charts. Although next year, he's the # 1 pick imo
Are you insane?
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Anyone else think he is a top 10 pick right now? His potential is off the charts. Although next year, he's the # 1 pick imo
Are you insane?
Agreed, still needs a three ball and FT to improve on. Also, taking 4-5 off the dribble to score is easier than taking 3's in the NBA. And if you cant make a three it hurts.
Someone mentioned he wont improve any more or less in college than he does in the NBA and that may be true. But if he becomes around a 150 shooter next year instead of a 120 or 130 shooter (FG, 3pt + FT%) like he was this year than he wont be a late first/ early second round pick. He'll be a lot higher draft pick and will end up in a better situation than Ebanks.
Good news for Moe, he's not Terrance Morris. It can only get better for him draftwise.
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Give me 10 guys you take over H
Anyone else think he is a top 10 pick right now? His potential is off the charts. Although next year, he's the # 1 pick imo
Are you insane?
Give me 10 guys you take over Harkless
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Give me 10 guys you take over HAnyone else think he is a top 10 pick right now? His potential is off the charts. Although next year, he's the # 1 pick imo
Are you insane?
Give me 10 guys you take over Harkless
Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd Gilchrest
Harrison Barnes
Thomas Robinson
Cody Zeller
Terrance Jones
Tyler Zeller
I don't want to start writing guards because it all depends on needs. Not every teams is going to draft a 3, 4 or 5. Some will need 1 and 2's so these bigs will drop.
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I tale him over both Zellers and Jones
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I tale him over both Zellers and Jones
Well again Zellers are Centers. Jones is a PF. Moe is a 3 at heart. So taking 'over' someone is really tough to debate.
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I tale him over both Zellers and Jones
That is why you are not an NBA scout.
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Ya I agree. Nobody needs Sam Bowie though. Whose better in 5 years. Harkless or the others u mentioned?
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Give me 10 guys you take over HAnyone else think he is a top 10 pick right now? His potential is off the charts. Although next year, he's the # 1 pick imo
Are you insane?
Give me 10 guys you take over Harkless
Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd Gilchrest
Harrison Barnes
Thomas Robinson
Cody Zeller
Terrance Jones
Tyler Zeller
I don't want to start writing guards because it all depends on needs. Not every teams is going to draft a 3, 4 or 5. Some will need 1 and 2's so these bigs will drop.
Perry Jones III
a bunch of European guys we've never heard of
“[I want him to stay] because I think that it’ll help him grow more, grow him stronger, mature, and he can further his education a little bit more also,” Rosa said. “But the ultimate decision is his. He’s 18. ... I can’t really tell him the choices to make.”
Moe Harkless (25 points on 10-16 shooting) goes 6-foot-8, 210 pounds. Another year in the weight room will be magical for him.
“And I think this team is gonna be amazing next year,” Rosa said.
If he was guaranteed top ten it wouldnt matter...but if it's a roll of dice where he'll go ( which it is), and moms wants him to stay, my guess is he stays.
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Give me 10 guys you take over HAnyone else think he is a top 10 pick right now? His potential is off the charts. Although next year, he's the # 1 pick imo
Are you insane?
Give me 10 guys you take over Harkless
Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd Gilchrest
Harrison Barnes
Thomas Robinson
Cody Zeller
Terrance Jones
Tyler Zeller
I don't want to start writing guards because it all depends on needs. Not every teams is going to draft a 3, 4 or 5. Some will need 1 and 2's so these bigs will drop.
Big men are so hard to predict. Unless they are a legit center, or a Patrick Ewing type, I wouldn't get my hopes up. Everyone is all over Thomas Robinson's Johnson. We'll see. Derrick Williams was a pretty big deal last year. What's he up to now? Nothing. Harkless can face the basket. He can put it on the floor. He needs a lot of work, but he is a great prospect.
Moose, there are a lot of guys on that list that are going to be pushed around like rag dolls in the league. Moe won't have to play the 4 in the league, but most of those guys will.
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Give me 10 guys you take over HAnyone else think he is a top 10 pick right now? His potential is off the charts. Although next year, he's the # 1 pick imo
Are you insane?
Give me 10 guys you take over Harkless
Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd Gilchrest
Harrison Barnes
Thomas Robinson
Cody Zeller
Terrance Jones
Tyler Zeller
I don't want to start writing guards because it all depends on needs. Not every teams is going to draft a 3, 4 or 5. Some will need 1 and 2's so these bigs will drop.
Big men are so hard to predict. Unless they are a legit center, or a Patrick Ewing type, I wouldn't get my hopes up. Everyone is all over Thomas Robinson's Johnson. We'll see. Derrick Williams was a pretty big deal last year. What's he up to now? Nothing. Harkless can face the basket. He can put it on the floor. He needs a lot of work, but he is a great prospect.
Moose, there are a lot of guys on that list that are going to be pushed around like rag dolls in the league. Moe won't have to play the 4 in the league, but most of those guys will.
There really are defined positions anymore. Most are 5/4's or 4/3's or 1/2's. I know that Moe won't have anything to do with the 4 on most teams in the NBA outside of spelling a few minutes here and there. See I wasn't big on Derrick Williams because he was undersized body of 4 and would need to play a lot of 3 which I wasn't sold on. Still time for him though.
All boils down to teams and needs.
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Also, I think Harrison Barnes will be a 6 point and 3 rebound guy in the league.
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Also, I think Harrison Barnes will be a 6 point and 3 rebound guy in the league.
Bigger question is how long do you see him playing in the League. Because regardless of the numbers its the longer you can collect a paycheck. I love Barnes' game. Him and McAdoo more than Henson on UNC.
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Poison,
How can you write off Derrick Williams already? He's a 20 year old rookie who is getting 15-20 mins a game. He actually had a 27 point game just last week. I agree he's not a no doubter like Kyrie was, but he still has the potential to be a very very good player. His future is not set in stone yet by any means. Although their games are different, Luol Deng comes to mind as someone drafted top 3 after his frosh season, was decent for a while, and then the last couple of years has emerged as a borderline all star. Wouldn't be surprised at all if Derrick had a similar enough trajectory.
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i hate to say this, but big difference in the team next year with or without moe. i love our players, but they are not necessarily scorers. unless we land sampson, where are the points going to come from besides harrison. especially in the front court.
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Moe will most likely end up being a SF in the NBA, but that is actually a problem at this stage because he doesn't shoot well enough to play that position in the pros. It would be nice to see him come back for another year, work on perfecting that 15-18 foot jump shot, and end up being a top 10 pick in 2013.
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Also, I think Harrison Barnes will be a 6 point and 3 rebound guy in the league.
Bigger question is how long do you see him playing in the League. Because regardless of the numbers its the longer you can collect a paycheck. I love Barnes' game. Him and McAdoo more than Henson on UNC.
I love Barnes game as well . He is one of those guys who will be a better pro. That mid range jumper he got is deadly.
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or Barnes can he up like Ronnie Brewer or Antoine Wright or Jarvis Hayes
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or Barnes can he up like Ronnie Brewer or Antoine Wright or Jarvis Hayes
I see caron butler in him
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I tale him over both Zellers and Jones
That is why you are not an NBA scout.
Filling in for Class of 72 as head stalker?
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I tale him over both Zellers and Jones
That is why you are not an NBA scout.
Filling in for Class of 72 as head stalker?
Saying you are not a scout is the equivalent to a stalker?
What's next? Calling you an idiot is equivalent to being a rapist?
...The people at Iona...
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I tale him over both Zellers and Jones
That is why you are not an NBA scout.
Filling in for Class of 72 as head stalker?
Saying you are not a scout is the equivalent to a stalker?
What's next? Calling you an idiot is equivalent to being a rapist?
...The people at Iona...
Should I just call you Shariff?
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I tale him over both Zellers and Jones
That is why you are not an NBA scout.
Filling in for Class of 72 as head stalker?
Saying you are not a scout is the equivalent to a stalker?
What's next? Calling you an idiot is equivalent to being a rapist?
...The people at Iona...
Should I just call you Shariff?
I got hand it to you it must have taken you 3 hours to come up with that one...
Putting that degree to work, I like it.
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I tale him over both Zellers and Jones
That is why you are not an NBA scout.
Filling in for Class of 72 as head stalker?
Saying you are not a scout is the equivalent to a stalker?
What's next? Calling you an idiot is equivalent to being a rapist?
...The people at Iona...
Should I just call you Shariff?
I got hand it to you it must have taken you 3 hours to come up with that one...
Putting that degree to work, I like it.
Alright bro enough,noone cares.
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or Barnes can he up like Ronnie Brewer or Antoine Wright or Jarvis Hayes
I see caron butler in him
I like that comparison as well but I don't know if he has the heart of Caron that is Barnes weakness doesn't response to adversity 2 well
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Moe will most likely end up being a SF in the NBA, but that is actually a problem at this stage because he doesn't shoot well enough to play that position in the pros. It would be nice to see him come back for another year, work on perfecting that 15-18 foot jump shot, and end up being a top 10 pick in 2013.
Bingo. He needs to shoot better from distance. I am not trashing Mo but look at where he got his points this year? Put backs and little chippy things that he'll never get in the NBA because he will get muscled off the ball. He needs to develop his body, develop his shot, and find his niche a bit more (which I think can be something between a 3/4 because he can rebound) before moving to the league.
Will he be a top 10 pick after his soph season? Who knows! If Jakarr comes it takes some production away so its difficult to gauge. I'm no draft expert but looking at the deep class due to the lockout, the massive growth a player goes through between fresh/soph seasons, and the time he can work with Dunlap and Rico...its not even a decision in my book. He needs to stay and we'll see a first rounder. I do think that if he stays two more years that he can end up being a top 10 for sure. Mind you, he didn't prep a year (did his sr yr of high school NOT a post grad year) so he's a true true freshman. Plenty of time to make the $$$!
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I take Quincy Miller over Moe all day every day. He's an inch taller, more athletic, just as long if not longer, and he is a better shooter and more consistent player. It's really close, but he definitely does have an advantage.
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I take Quincy Miller over Moe all day every day. He's an inch taller, more athletic, just as long if not longer, and he is a better shooter and more consistent player. It's really close, but he definitely does have an advantage.
An inch taller?
Seriously?
Tape measure?
Hahaha
I agree with the rest of what you said.
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Moe will most likely end up being a SF in the NBA, but that is actually a problem at this stage because he doesn't shoot well enough to play that position in the pros. It would be nice to see him come back for another year, work on perfecting that 15-18 foot jump shot, and end up being a top 10 pick in 2013.
Bingo. He needs to shoot better from distance. I am not trashing Mo but look at where he got his points this year? Put backs and little chippy things that he'll never get in the NBA because he will get muscled off the ball. He needs to develop his body, develop his shot, and find his niche a bit more (which I think can be something between a 3/4 because he can rebound) before moving to the league.
Will he be a top 10 pick after his soph season? Who knows! If Jakarr comes it takes some production away so its difficult to gauge. I'm no draft expert but looking at the deep class due to the lockout, the massive growth a player goes through between fresh/soph seasons, and the time he can work with Dunlap and Rico...its not even a decision in my book. He needs to stay and we'll see a first rounder. I do think that if he stays two more years that he can end up being a top 10 for sure. Mind you, he didn't prep a year (did his sr yr of high school NOT a post grad year) so he's a true true freshman. Plenty of time to make the $$$!
I think you're both on the money.
Moe's future at the next level is on the perimeter, he needs to develop a real tight handle, and become a much more consistent outside shooter. I'm not too worried about him getting out muscled - he's not going to be battling centers, and he'll bulk up over time. Our staff is helping him now I'm sure.
But ball handling skills and outside shooting are what makes or breaks SFs in the NBA. There's no question Moe gets there, but how well he prospers will come down to those two areas IMO.
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I take Quincy Miller over Moe all day every day. He's an inch taller, more athletic, just as long if not longer, and he is a better shooter and more consistent player. It's really close, but he definitely does have an advantage.
Moot point considering you don't work for a NBA team.
Geez, its marillacs opinion! you dont have to agree
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I take Quincy Miller over Moe all day every day. He's an inch taller, more athletic, just as long if not longer, and he is a better shooter and more consistent player. It's really close, but he definitely does have an advantage.
Moot point considering you don't work for a NBA team.
Geez, its marillacs opinion! you dont have to agree
I hate those posts. Let's just shutdown the sports blogs because none of us are professionals.
Moose, I'm just going off of the listings. In high school Q was listed at 6'9 and 6'10, Moe at 6'7and 6'8...sometimes even 6'6. In college Q is listed at 6'9 and Moe at 6'8.
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I just saw that LeBryan Nash said he is going to return to Ok State next season. According to rush the court he was projected to be a late 1st rounder like Mo. Hopefully Mo does the same and comes back.
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I take Quincy Miller over Moe all day every day. He's an inch taller, more athletic, just as long if not longer, and he is a better shooter and more consistent player. It's really close, but he definitely does have an advantage.
An inch taller?
Seriously?
Tape measure?
Hahaha
I agree with the rest of what you said.
The heights might be comparable but Miller has a ridiculous wing span. The kid has arms that hang down to his ankles.
So even if they're only an inch apart height wise... I think his reach is a sizeable advantage that scouts will look at.
But - it's also worth noting that in their game against K State yesterday in the Big 12 tournament Miller scored 2 points in 20 minutes.
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I take Quincy Miller over Moe all day every day. He's an inch taller, more athletic, just as long if not longer, and he is a better shooter and more consistent player. It's really close, but he definitely does have an advantage.
An inch taller?
Seriously?
Tape measure?
Hahaha
I agree with the rest of what you said.
The heights might be comparable but Miller has a ridiculous wing span. The kid has arms that hang down to his ankles.
So even if they're only an inch apart height wise... I think his reach is a sizeable advantage that scouts will look at.
But - it's also worth noting that in their game against K State yesterday in the Big 12 tournament Miller scored 2 points in 20 minutes.
have you seen moes arms? They go for days! And fwiw i would take moe over quincy.
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Moe will most likely end up being a SF in the NBA, but that is actually a problem at this stage because he doesn't shoot well enough to play that position in the pros. It would be nice to see him come back for another year, work on perfecting that 15-18 foot jump shot, and end up being a top 10 pick in 2013.
Bingo. He needs to shoot better from distance. I am not trashing Mo but look at where he got his points this year? Put backs and little chippy things that he'll never get in the NBA because he will get muscled off the ball. He needs to develop his body, develop his shot, and find his niche a bit more (which I think can be something between a 3/4 because he can rebound) before moving to the league.
Will he be a top 10 pick after his soph season? Who knows! If Jakarr comes it takes some production away so its difficult to gauge. I'm no draft expert but looking at the deep class due to the lockout, the massive growth a player goes through between fresh/soph seasons, and the time he can work with Dunlap and Rico...its not even a decision in my book. He needs to stay and we'll see a first rounder. I do think that if he stays two more years that he can end up being a top 10 for sure. Mind you, he didn't prep a year (did his sr yr of high school NOT a post grad year) so he's a true true freshman. Plenty of time to make the $$$!
I agree. Would really like to see him stay 2 more years. That Junior team could be Final Four bound. Crazy for him to go now. Someone used the example of Devin Ebanks. Want to be hugging the pines for 2 years or gaining valuable experience for a great career ?
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Steve Lavin @STJCoachLavin
Maurice Harkless with great options. NBA stock is rising. He can return to STJ to hoop or realize dream of playin in the NBA. Happy for Mo!
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Steve Lavin @STJCoachLavin
Maurice Harkless with great options. NBA stock is rising. He can return to STJ to hoop or realize dream of playin in the NBA. Happy for Mo!
Eh????
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Steve Lavin @STJCoachLavin
Maurice Harkless with great options. NBA stock is rising. He can return to STJ to hoop or realize dream of playin in the NBA. Happy for Mo!
Noticed another tweet of Lavin touting NBA connection re coaches and players he sent to the League. Is he sending a message to a particular recruit or preparing us for Moe's departure? Interesting!
Eh????
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Moe is coming back. It just doesn't make sense to leave. You don't develop at the end of the bench on an NBA team, and that is where he'll be for two years with his frame and shooting ability. He might slip into the second round with all of the NBA ready upperclassmen and the incredible amount of young, lengthy talent this year.
I think Lav is just being a master recruiter. Honestly, this is win-win from a recruit's standpoint: Lavin produces yet another NBA player or more minutes to be had :)
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Moe is coming back. It just doesn't make sense to leave. You don't develop at the end of the bench on an NBA team, and that is where he'll be for two years with his frame and shooting ability. He might slip into the second round with all of the NBA ready upperclassmen and the incredible amount of young, lengthy talent this year.
I think Lav is just being a master recruiter. Honestly, this is win-win from a recruit's standpoint: Lavin produces yet another NBA player or more minutes to be had :)
I want Moe back too. But I don't think that's true at all. Think about it: are you going to improve more when you have to split time between classes and basketball or when you work on your game and body 8 hours a day? When you have access to coaches 24/7 all year round, or when the NCAA limits you to 2hrs of practice a day from November till March and prevents you from practicing with coaches all summer?
We rightfully brag that 3 of our coaches have NBA experience; guess what... every coach on an NBA staff has NBA experience.
At the end of the day it's the equivalent of working at basketball full-time versus part-time. To me there's no question you improve more as a player in the NBA, whether you're starting or not.
Would this even be a question in other sports? Nobody doubts that prospects improve more with the Yankees pitching coaches in the minor leagues, or the Giants O-line staff, then they would've with their colleges. The nba is no different. Part-time athletics v. full-time.
Now there's still a huge difference in guaranteed money between the bottom of the 1st round and the lottery. So for that reason I think it makes sense for Moe to return, unless he knows he'll be drafted 15 or above.
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If he leaves NJ Nets better jump on the local kid late in the first round....sorry Brooklyn Nets.
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If he leaves NJ Nets better jump on the local kid late in the first round....sorry Brooklyn Nets.
To me that would be the next best outcome for us. A chance to see him develop into a marquee player locally. The Knicks already have the fabulous Melo, best half a player around, to play the 3.
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If he leaves NJ Nets better jump on the local kid late in the first round....sorry Brooklyn Nets.
Nets have 15th pick right now. Right in the middle of round.
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If he leaves NJ Nets better jump on the local kid late in the first round....sorry Brooklyn Nets.
Nets have 15th pick right now. Right in the middle of round.
That will be Orlando's pick by the draft.
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Give me 10 guys you take over HAnyone else think he is a top 10 pick right now? His potential is off the charts. Although next year, he's the # 1 pick imo
Are you insane?
Give me 10 guys you take over Harkless
Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd Gilchrest
Harrison Barnes
Thomas Robinson
Cody Zeller
Terrance Jones
Tyler Zeller
I don't want to start writing guards because it all depends on needs. Not every teams is going to draft a 3, 4 or 5. Some will need 1 and 2's so these bigs will drop.
For starters, Moe is better than Zeller or Jones
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Give me 10 guys you take over HAnyone else think he is a top 10 pick right now? His potential is off the charts. Although next year, he's the # 1 pick imo
Are you insane?
Give me 10 guys you take over Harkless
Anthony Davis
Michael Kidd Gilchrest
Harrison Barnes
Thomas Robinson
Cody Zeller
Terrance Jones
Tyler Zeller
I don't want to start writing guards because it all depends on needs. Not every teams is going to draft a 3, 4 or 5. Some will need 1 and 2's so these bigs will drop.
For starters, Moe is better than Zeller or Jones
Different positions.
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Lets not forget Harkless was playing without a true PG, Moe made some ridiculous shots this year when taking it to the basket. Some of them I was wondering how the hell you got it off. He had to create his own shot, rarely ever setup in position to score easily
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Lenn Robbins @LennRobbins
Moe harkless going pro #stjbb
Really hope this isn't true. This would be an awfully dumb decision.
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Lenn Robbins @LennRobbins
Moe harkless going pro #stjbb
Really hope this isn't true. This would be an awfully dumb decision.
Man, this would suck. Can't blame these kids though. The $$$ is there. If true , I hope he makes it big.
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Lenn Robbins just reported that Harkless is going pro.
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Nate Blue, Lavin and St. John's all disputing the report.
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Maurice Harkless @moe_harkless
RT @ayoometz: Lol. Some rumors just travel so quickly.
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Nate Blue, Lavin and St. John's all disputing the report.
And Moe just retweeted this, "Maurice Harkless @moe_harkless RT @ayoometz: Lol. Some rumors just travel so quickly."
I think Lenn might have jumped the gun on this one.
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“@Nateblueis4real: We're sitting here cooling, watching the psal semis at stjohns..no decision made... Still havent spoken with lav. http://t.co/9o4TFcf4”
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Article from zagsblog less than hour ago says Harkless will decide within the upcoming weeks (obviously)
-
huh?
Lenn Robbins @LennRobbins Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
"Moe harkless going pro #stjbb"
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Lavin said he's talked to Moe. Nate is saying they havent.
?????
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Lavin said he's talked to Moe. Nate is saying they havent.
?????
Usually where there is smoke there is fire.
He's gone.
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Lavin said he's talked to Moe. Nate is saying they havent.
?????
Was wondering the same thing
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Lavin said he's talked to Moe. Nate is saying they havent.
?????
Lavs seems to be in serious damage control over last few days. I had same reaction as Moose to his tweet last night. Concur that something is going on. Frankly, all this expense is starting to wear me out.
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Suspense, sorry
-
Lavin all over twitter. Basically saying he supports moe with whatever decision he makes and no matter what it is a positive for STJ hoops.
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“@KieranDarcy: Report: Moe Harkless leaning toward NBA: http://t.co/FRibQGeg (http://t.co/FRibQGeg) #stjbb”
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Steve Lavin @STJCoachLavin Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Miixed emotions as a young man transitions from college to the NBA. Ultimately seeing others realize a lifelong dream is as good as it gets!
GONE
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I read it that Nate hasn't spoken with Lav, but Moe has.
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“@STJCoachLavin: Associated with college hoops for 25 years as assistant, head coach + broadcaster. If Mo chooses to pursue HIS DREAM it gives us traction!”
“@STJCoachLavin: Miixed emotions as a young man transitions from college to the NBA. Ultimately seeing others realize a lifelong dream is as good as it gets!”
Someone is in a hyper state here.
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This sucks.
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“@STJCoachLavin: Typo on previous tweet! "Mixed" not
"Miixed".”
Lav's I Phone just blew up!
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I read it that Nate hasn't spoken with Lav, but Moe has.
I didn't. He started off saying "we're"
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Lav is def trying to make a positive spin on this regardless of the outcome.
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Lav is def trying to make a positive spin on this regardless of the outcome.
Agree totally
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If moe goes where looking at 13-19 againh next year
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“@STJCoachLavin: Would luv to have Mo back but returning nucleus combined with our soon to be incoming 2012 class will position Johnnies for return to NCAA!!”
no need to hire Sherlock Holmes
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Not a single player has announced for the NBA Draft yet. Ours will be the first?
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Not a single player has announced for the NBA Draft yet. Ours will be the first?
We finished first in something :)
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Not a single player has announced for the NBA Draft yet. Ours will be the first?
We finished first in something :)
I wonder if SJ will have awards dinner to honor Moe on his BE ROY award? It's their style.
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Not a single player has announced for the NBA Draft yet. Ours will be the first?
We finished first in something :)
I wonder if SJ will have awards dinner to honor Moe on his BE ROY award? It's their style.
Would fit w this weeks PR onslaught.
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It's sad that Harkless would rather sit on an NBA bench, or duke it out in the NBDL than go to college for than one year.
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It's sad that Harkless would rather sit on an NBA bench, or duke it out in the NBDL than go to college for than one year.
$$$
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Unless Lavin has something up his sleeve we are doomed if Moe is gone.
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It's sad that Harkless would rather sit on an NBA bench, or duke it out in the NBDL than go to college for than one year.
$$$
That's why Cook left. And Cook was better.
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It's sad that Harkless would rather sit on an NBA bench, or duke it out in the NBDL than go to college for than one year.
$$$
That's why Cook left. And Cook was better.
How much you wanna bet Moe gets drafted higher than Cook did? How can you compare a 5'10" PG with no outside shot to a 6'8" small forward? Apples to oranges.
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It's sad that Harkless would rather sit on an NBA bench, or duke it out in the NBDL than go to college for than one year.
$$$
That's why Cook left. And Cook was better.
Besides the money a lot of these kids just don't wanna be bothered with school anymore. The obligation of going to class and meeting academic requirements. Look at my good friend mr landesberg.
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Lavin wouldn't be tweeting those tweets, the way he did, if he didn't "know" Harkless is going pro. Lavin chooses his words carefully, but they are transparent in this situation, in my opinion.
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Lavin wouldn't be tweeting those tweets, the way he did, if he didn't "know" Harkless is going pro. Lavin chooses his words carefully, but they are transparent in this situation, in my opinion.
Agreed. Of course i think he would do himself a favor by staying, but you can't question a kid like Moe's decision. He will be a first round pick with guaranteed money. I would probably do the same thing. It's easy to sit here on a couch with a beer in your hand and say he's making a mistake. Wish him success at the next level.
Real question- how does this affect Jakkar ?
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It's sad that Harkless would rather sit on an NBA bench, or duke it out in the NBDL than go to college for than one year.
$$$
That's why Cook left. And Cook was better.
How much you wanna bet Moe gets drafted higher than Cook did? How can you compare a 5'10" PG with no outside shot to a 6'8" small forward? Apples to oranges.
What I am really comparing is what they do have in common. They want to leave this school and this program immediately. That's an ugly concept, but sadly true. Harkless isn't any more ready for the NBA than Cook was. As a program we wasted this season. It's hard to swallow.
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It's sad that Harkless would rather sit on an NBA bench, or duke it out in the NBDL than go to college for than one year.
$$$
That's why Cook left. And Cook was better.
How much you wanna bet Moe gets drafted higher than Cook did? How can you compare a 5'10" PG with no outside shot to a 6'8" small forward? Apples to oranges.
What I am really comparing is what they do have in common. They want to leave this school and this program immediately. That's an ugly concept, but sadly true. Harkless isn't any more ready for the NBA than Cook was. As a program we wasted this season. It's hard to swallow.
It's been a decade since someone left early. Guess what, this is what real programs have to deal with. Lavin will deal with it and the sun will rise again. Lets not act like this is the end of the world. It sucks, but this is reality.
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Moe and Nate have said they are rumors and that a decision hasn't been made yet and you guys are talking about him like he's out the door already. I'll take Moe's word over Lenn or anyone else any day of the week.
-
It's sad that Harkless would rather sit on an NBA bench, or duke it out in the NBDL than go to college for than one year.
$$$
That's why Cook left. And Cook was better.
How much you wanna bet Moe gets drafted higher than Cook did? How can you compare a 5'10" PG with no outside shot to a 6'8" small forward? Apples to oranges.
What I am really comparing is what they do have in common. They want to leave this school and this program immediately. That's an ugly concept, but sadly true. Harkless isn't any more ready for the NBA than Cook was. As a program we wasted this season. It's hard to swallow.
It's been a decade since someone left early. Guess what, this is what real programs have to deal with. Lavin will deal with it and the sun will rise again. Lets not act like this is the end of the world. It sucks, but this is reality.
Real programs lose players to the league but we would be losing a player from a 13-19 team. That would be a lost season, and a lost player.
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To put things in perspective Kawhi Leonard was picked 15th last year. Here is his contract.
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/kawhi-leonard/ (http://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/kawhi-leonard/)
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How do you like Jim Boeheim now?
"He needs to stay in school and get better,’’ Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim told The Post’s Steve Serby. “The [NBA] Developmental League is littered with guys 6-7 or 6-8. You’ve got to really be good. He’s a really talented player, but he needs another year.’’
A former SJ star player told me the EXACT same thing two weeks ago. And he wasn't nearly as nice about it.
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This would be very rash, he needs another season.
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This would be very rash, he needs another season.
I don't know how anyone could say that after another season he'd be ready. You have win at the college level before there should be any reason to believe that you're ready for the next level. I'm not saying it's never happened, but I don't recall any player coming out after a 13 win season and making it anywhere.
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This would be very rash, he needs another season.
I don't know how anyone could say that after another season he'd be ready. You have win at the college level before there should be any reason to believe that you're ready for the next level. I'm not saying it's never happened, but I don't recall any player coming out after a 13 win season and making it anywhere.
A lot of players never played at college and made it in the NBA. Kind of blows up that logic.
-
Kris Humphries left Minnesota (12-18 record) after one year and has had a nice NBA career.
-
This would be very rash, he needs another season.
I don't know how anyone could say that after another season he'd be ready. You have win at the college level before there
should be any reason to believe that you're ready for the next level. I'm not saying it's never happened, but I don't recall any player coming out after a 13 win season and making it anywhere.
A lot of players never played at college and made it in the NBA. Kind of blows up that logic.
I'm not saying its cut and dry, but I think it's presumptuous for any of us to say that if he stays one more year, and then leaves he'd be a guaranteed lottery pick. Maybe he needs more than two years? Is it possible that players can come out of nowhere? Sure. If you're Moe Harkless, and you have your head on straight, and it feels like he does, why would you risk
your career?
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Kris Humphries left Minnesota (12-18 record) after one year and has had a nice NBA career.
Possible? Certainly. Likely?
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This would be very rash, he needs another season.
I don't know how anyone could say that after another season he'd be ready. You have win at the college level before there
should be any reason to believe that you're ready for the next level. I'm not saying it's never happened, but I don't recall any player coming out after a 13 win season and making it anywhere.
A lot of players never played at college and made it in the NBA. Kind of blows up that logic.
I'm not saying its cut and dry, but I think it's presumptuous for any of us to say that if he stays one more year, and then leaves he'd be a guaranteed lottery pick. Maybe he needs more than two years? Is it possible that players can come out of nowhere? Sure. If you're Moe Harkless, and you have your head on straight, and it feels like he does, why would you risk
your career?
I have no problem with his decision. He is not transferring to Rider or quitting the team midseason to go play for Coach Casey at CW Post. He's going to the NBA. He will get picked in Rd 1 and he won't be Omar Cook. He opened the gates for our recruiting and city kids look up to him. That can go a long way in a kid maybe sticking around NYC as opposed to leaving down the road.
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Kris Humphries left Minnesota (12-18 record) after one year and has had a nice NBA career.
Possible? Certainly. Likely?
$17 million later.
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Kris Humphries left Minnesota (12-18 record) after one year and has had a nice NBA career.
Possible? Certainly. Likely?
$17 million later.
It does happen. It does not happen often. For every Kris Humphries, there are 25 guys every year who think they're great and wind up in Asia or who knows where. Jeremi Richmond. Remember him? Will anyone?
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Kris Humphries left Minnesota (12-18 record) after one year and has had a nice NBA career.
Possible? Certainly. Likely?
$17 million later.
It does happen. It does not happen often. For every Kris Humphries, there are 25 guys every year who think they're great and wind up in Asia or who knows where. Jeremi Richmond. Remember him? Will anyone?
All true. He will get picked in the 1st round. That gets your foot in the door. Then it depends where you end up, who is ahead of you on the depth chart, who you teammates are and who is coaching you. Can go MANY directions from there.
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Moe and Nate have said they are rumors and that a decision hasn't been made yet and you guys are talking about him like he's out the door already. I'll take Moe's word over Lenn or anyone else any day of the week.
So will I damn have you ever seen a panic like this?
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Nathan Blue @Nateblueis4real
Who wants to make a bet no decision is made by friday.. But lenn robbins knows lol
Nathan Blue Nathan Blue @Nateblueis4real
S/O to all lenn robbins who will say "Moe switched his thoughts if he comes back..and then "as reported first he goes pro.. If he goes."
Nathan Blue Nathan Blue @Nateblueis4real
Breaking News: We are waiting weeks and we made a decision? Why does that make sense? No we dont wanna weigh options, we just waiting wks?
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Moe is coming back. It just doesn't make sense to leave. You don't develop at the end of the bench on an NBA team, and that is where he'll be for two years with his frame and shooting ability. He might slip into the second round with all of the NBA ready upperclassmen and the incredible amount of young, lengthy talent this year.
I think Lav is just being a master recruiter. Honestly, this is win-win from a recruit's standpoint: Lavin produces yet another NBA player or more minutes to be had :)
I want Moe back too. But I don't think that's true at all. Think about it: are you going to improve more when you have to split time between classes and basketball or when you work on your game and body 8 hours a day? When you have access to coaches 24/7 all year round, or when the NCAA limits you to 2hrs of practice a day from November till March and prevents you from practicing with coaches all summer?
We rightfully brag that 3 of our coaches have NBA experience; guess what... every coach on an NBA staff has NBA experience.
At the end of the day it's the equivalent of working at basketball full-time versus part-time. To me there's no question you improve more as a player in the NBA, whether you're starting or not.
Would this even be a question in other sports? Nobody doubts that prospects improve more with the Yankees pitching coaches in the minor leagues, or the Giants O-line staff, then they would've with their colleges. The nba is no different. Part-time athletics v. full-time.
Now there's still a huge difference in guaranteed money between the bottom of the 1st round and the lottery. So for that reason I think it makes sense for Moe to return, unless he knows he'll be drafted 15 or above.
Preach on only a fan can't see that. The less you play in college the better the NBA player IMO. Tyreke Evans high school coach said Evans became a worst shooter from playing under Calipari.Darius Rice said the longer you stay in college the more scouts over analyze and he should of left as a Frosh.Torin Francis of ND said the same.Darius Washington of Memphis said he should of never went to college he should of went straight to the NBA like Telfair. Kyrie played 11 games at Duke and is the top NBA rookie. KD is the youngest scoring champ of all time 1 year of college , Rose the youngest MVP of all time 1 year of college. I just don't see the proof college makes you a better basketball. If that was the case more 3 or 4 year players would be dominating the league but I just don't see them on all star rosters.
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From Nate Blue's twitter
"The fact that lenn robbins can just run without us making a decision makes me wonder about dealing with him in the future or next season."
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I think Len Robbins likes to torture St. John's fans.
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I think Len Robbins likes to torture St. John's fans.
It's how those papers operate
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I think everyone needs to take a deep breath. I understand that the potential that Mo might declare has been fueled today by the combination of the tweet earlier in the week from the guy at one of the NBA draft websites, Robbins' tweet today, as well as Coach Lav's. But I think that Mo's and Nate Blue's tweets are easily the most credible, and given that Lavin is out on the recruiting trail, he could be purposefully generating buzz about Mo's consideration to help persuade potential recruits that if they come to the Johnnies to work with this staff, it may have immediate results for their potential NBA prospects.
If Mo decides to leave, I wish him nothing but the best and hope that he ends up being a first round pick. My concern for Mo is that some of the pre-draft works out don't go as well as he thought they would, and he drops a bit, or ends up at the end of an NBA bench without the ability to further refine and develop his skills (granted, if as a first round pick, he'll have a good payday). I'd also be concerned about the various wings/forwards who may jump this year, which could impact Mo's draft position.
Short term, Mo leaving obviously hurts our team next year. But the flip-side, as recognized by several on this board, is that it lends further credibility to Lavin and this staff in their ability to develop talent to make it to the next level. That is a positive development, as is all the local buzz this is generating.
And if Mo doesn't leave, we will have a first team Big East type player leading our squad, along with D-Lo, the rest of the talented returning players, and whoever Lavin reels in. And our program will have the upshot of all the buzz this has generated.
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Everyone keeps talking about Barnes, Davis, Sullinger and the Zellers.
But what about Europe and South America? The NBA has scouts everywhere.
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I would tell Moe to stay because he will develop more here then the NBA, but it wont stop him from becoming a great player if he decides to leave.
Paul George, Wilson Chandler, Thaddeus Young, etc. have done it.
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I would tell Moe to stay because he will develop more here then the NBA, but it wont stop him from becoming a great player if he decides to leave.
Paul George, Wilson Chandler, Thaddeus Young, etc. have done it.
Im just going off by memory but didnt all of those guys stay at least 2 years? I know chandler did
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I would tell Moe to stay because he will develop more here then the NBA, but it wont stop him from becoming a great player if he decides to leave.
Paul George, Wilson Chandler, Thaddeus Young, etc. have done it.
Im just going off by memory but didnt all of those guys stay at least 2 years? I know chandler did
Young was the only one to stay only 1 year. But developmental stage wise when they entered, are all about equal to Moe. The NBA is starting to trend to drafting these high potential lengthy forward types higher and higher in the draft. He can't make a wrong decision in my mind. If he comes back he has a chance to be a top 10 player in the draft and develops more, if he enters he hinders his development only slightly, but he makes money right away and is closer to free agency.
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if moe leaves, all the more reason for sampson to come. not only will he get a ton of minutes right away, but a great part of the offence will run through him. easily fifteen plus a game as a freshman.
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Mo Harkless is NOT ready for the NBA. Leaving after one good year on q team where he had free reign to shoot as much as he would like would be a major mistake. He would be stapled to a bench ine league for a few years.
I do understand the economics of coming out and getting your service time clock started but if he has one bad work out for a team looking to draft him and falls to the second round he has really hurt himself, his future and his family.
Stay in school, have monster Sophmore season and be a Lottery pick, this is a no brainer?
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if moe leaves, all the more reason for sampson to come. not only will he get a ton of minutes right away, but a great part of the offence will run through him. easily fifteen plus a game as a freshman.
I hope I am wrong but I don't Sampson is committing until we get a commit from a true center. I don't think he is going to want to play the 5.
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Someone jog my memory and help me recall the last player who stayed that extra year and it ended up hurting thier draft stock. I can't recall any in the past couple years but know a lot who helped them selves by staying, and I've herd countless times of guys who shoulda stayed an extra year but not really any who "stayed to long".
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This year alone, Jared Sullinger and Terrence Jones have both dropped from where they would have gone last year.
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Moe's stock will never be higher for THIS YEAR'S draft than it is right now coming off that great game against Pitt. That will change as teams start to dissect his body and his game. The kid is simply not ready for the NBA at this point--both his body and his game need work. He shot less than 25% from three and under 70% from the FT line! He's very thin and weak by NBA standards. He has not proven that he can defend his position. That is something he hasn't had to do at all this season. When teams look at tape closely the will see that Moe often doesn't jump for rebounds because of his exception size and length.
If he's being projected in the late first round (#21 according to draft express), that also presents the problem of being considered by winning teams looking to add players to contribute right away. Add in the scary fact that just about every other player around him right now is more ready physically and has more experience--even the international kids at the same age who have ben playing professionally for the past few seasons.
He will make more money in the short term by staying a year and working his way into the lottery. He might also extend his NBA career. He'll be the focus at St. John's, but he'l be an after though in the NBA for a few years. It is not uncommon for players in the first round to disappear very quickly from the NBA.
With that written, it's tough to say no to the NBA. I will cheer for him the rest of my life in whatever he does, and I'd expect our entire fan base to do the same. He started the flood of players to St. John's and I know I won't forget that. The kid has all the makings of a fine NBA player if he works on his body and his game.
I'm convinced there is no better recruiting tool than pointing to a player in the NBA at the same position and saying that he is a product of your staff's coaching, a product of your current system, and telling the recruit that he's next if he gets on board. Nobody will capitalize on that more than Steve Lavin. I'm sure all the coaches recruiting against Lav have tried to minimize Lav's success with producing NBA players by saying things like "that was at UCLA" and "this is a completely different system with completely different coaches." Now Lav would be able to say "I did it at Purdue, I did it at UCLA, and I'm already doing it here at STJ. Look at Harkless. In one season he went from being a kid not even ranked in the top 40 in his class to being chosen in the first round. Why? Because we have the best staff in the country, we have a system that showcase players' talents, and no place in the country is more visible to NBA scouts and GM's than NYC." This is truly a win-win situation for St. John's.
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This year alone, Jared Sullinger and Terrence Jones have both dropped from where they would have gone last year.
I'm not sure about that the reason why both of those guys stayed was because they weren't sure fire top 7-10 picks to begin with and there probably be around the same thing this year.
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Nice post Marillac. Pretty much sums up my feelings as well. People masking as STJ fans pumping Nate Blue's twitter with digs at Moe going pro aren't making the rest of us look very good. " Have fun in the D-league, Moe" ... not cool. Get over it.
I could see him getting drafted by a team like the Celtics, playing behind Paul Pierce for a few years and then taking over and torturing us Knicks fans for the next 10-15.. Sounds about right from my perspective.
I think Terrence Jones and Sullinger were both lottery picks last year and will be lottery picks next year. Jones may get a title as a reward for sticking around....that is what its all about.
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Moe's stock will never be higher for THIS YEAR'S draft than it is right now coming off that great game against Pitt. That will change as teams start to dissect his body and his game. The kid is simply not ready for the NBA at this point--both his body and his game need work. He shot less than 25% from three and under 70% from the FT line! He's very thin and weak by NBA standards. He has not proven that he can defend his position. That is something he hasn't had to do at all this season. When teams look at tape closely the will see that Moe often doesn't jump for rebounds because of his exception size and length.
If he's being projected in the late first round (#21 according to draft express), that also presents the problem of being considered by winning teams looking to add players to contribute right away. Add in the scary fact that just about every other player around him right now is more ready physically and has more experience--even the international kids at the same age who have ben playing professionally for the past few seasons.
He will make more money in the short term by staying a year and working his way into the lottery. He might also extend his NBA career. He'll be the focus at St. John's, but he'l be an after though in the NBA for a few years. It is not uncommon for players in the first round to disappear very quickly from the NBA.
With that written, it's tough to say no to the NBA. I will cheer for him the rest of my life in whatever he does, and I'd expect our entire fan base to do the same. He started the flood of players to St. John's and I know I won't forget that. The kid has all the makings of a fine NBA player if he works on his body and his game.
I'm convinced there is no better recruiting tool than pointing to a player in the NBA at the same position and saying that he is a product of your staff's coaching, a product of your current system, and telling the recruit that he's next if he gets on board. Nobody will capitalize on that more than Steve Lavin. I'm sure all the coaches recruiting against Lav have tried to minimize Lav's success with producing NBA players by saying things like "that was at UCLA" and "this is a completely different system with completely different coaches." Now Lav would be able to say "I did it at Purdue, I did it at UCLA, and I'm already doing it here at STJ. Look at Harkless. In one season he went from being a kid not even ranked in the top 40 in his class to being chosen in the first round. Why? Because we have the best staff in the country, we have a system that showcase players' talents, and no place in the country is more visible to NBA scouts and GM's than NYC." This is truly a win-win situation for St. John's.
Well said, I believe this is another ingenious PR tactic by lav to bolster the attention around the program. harkless isn't leaving but the media attention around him possibly leaving is great attention especially if they drag it out to the end and he decides to take his talents back to utopia pkwy
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Moe's stock will never be higher for THIS YEAR'S draft than it is right now coming off that great game against Pitt. That will change as teams start to dissect his body and his game. The kid is simply not ready for the NBA at this point--both his body and his game need work. He shot less than 25% from three and under 70% from the FT line! He's very thin and weak by NBA standards. He has not proven that he can defend his position. That is something he hasn't had to do at all this season. When teams look at tape closely the will see that Moe often doesn't jump for rebounds because of his exception size and length.
If he's being projected in the late first round (#21 according to draft express), that also presents the problem of being considered by winning teams looking to add players to contribute right away. Add in the scary fact that just about every other player around him right now is more ready physically and has more experience--even the international kids at the same age who have ben playing professionally for the past few seasons.
He will make more money in the short term by staying a year and working his way into the lottery. He might also extend his NBA career. He'll be the focus at St. John's, but he'l be an after though in the NBA for a few years. It is not uncommon for players in the first round to disappear very quickly from the NBA.
With that written, it's tough to say no to the NBA. I will cheer for him the rest of my life in whatever he does, and I'd expect our entire fan base to do the same. He started the flood of players to St. John's and I know I won't forget that. The kid has all the makings of a fine NBA player if he works on his body and his game.
I'm convinced there is no better recruiting tool than pointing to a player in the NBA at the same position and saying that he is a product of your staff's coaching, a product of your current system, and telling the recruit that he's next if he gets on board. Nobody will capitalize on that more than Steve Lavin. I'm sure all the coaches recruiting against Lav have tried to minimize Lav's success with producing NBA players by saying things like "that was at UCLA" and "this is a completely different system with completely different coaches." Now Lav would be able to say "I did it at Purdue, I did it at UCLA, and I'm already doing it here at STJ. Look at Harkless. In one season he went from being a kid not even ranked in the top 40 in his class to being chosen in the first round. Why? Because we have the best staff in the country, we have a system that showcase players' talents, and no place in the country is more visible to NBA scouts and GM's than NYC." This is truly a win-win situation for St. John's.
Well said, I believe this is another ingenious PR tactic by lav to bolster the attention around the program. harkless isn't leaving but the media attention around him possibly leaving is great attention especially if they drag it out to the end and he decides to take his talents back to utopia pkwy
That would be a genius thing by Lav. Make Moe look like the hero for coming back for another season. That being said, I doubt that's what happening.
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Moe's stock will never be higher for THIS YEAR'S draft than it is right now coming off that great game against Pitt. That will change as teams start to dissect his body and his game. The kid is simply not ready for the NBA at this point--both his body and his game need work. He shot less than 25% from three and under 70% from the FT line! He's very thin and weak by NBA standards. He has not proven that he can defend his position. That is something he hasn't had to do at all this season. When teams look at tape closely the will see that Moe often doesn't jump for rebounds because of his exception size and length.
If he's being projected in the late first round (#21 according to draft express), that also presents the problem of being considered by winning teams looking to add players to contribute right away. Add in the scary fact that just about every other player around him right now is more ready physically and has more experience--even the international kids at the same age who have ben playing professionally for the past few seasons.
He will make more money in the short term by staying a year and working his way into the lottery. He might also extend his NBA career. He'll be the focus at St. John's, but he'l be an after though in the NBA for a few years. It is not uncommon for players in the first round to disappear very quickly from the NBA.
With that written, it's tough to say no to the NBA. I will cheer for him the rest of my life in whatever he does, and I'd expect our entire fan base to do the same. He started the flood of players to St. John's and I know I won't forget that. The kid has all the makings of a fine NBA player if he works on his body and his game.
I'm convinced there is no better recruiting tool than pointing to a player in the NBA at the same position and saying that he is a product of your staff's coaching, a product of your current system, and telling the recruit that he's next if he gets on board. Nobody will capitalize on that more than Steve Lavin. I'm sure all the coaches recruiting against Lav have tried to minimize Lav's success with producing NBA players by saying things like "that was at UCLA" and "this is a completely different system with completely different coaches." Now Lav would be able to say "I did it at Purdue, I did it at UCLA, and I'm already doing it here at STJ. Look at Harkless. In one season he went from being a kid not even ranked in the top 40 in his class to being chosen in the first round. Why? Because we have the best staff in the country, we have a system that showcase players' talents, and no place in the country is more visible to NBA scouts and GM's than NYC." This is truly a win-win situation for St. John's.
Well said, I believe this is another ingenious PR tactic by lav to bolster the attention around the program. harkless isn't leaving but the media attention around him possibly leaving is great attention especially if they drag it out to the end and he decides to take his talents back to utopia pkwy
I was thinking the same thing. But after analyzing the situation, I think it hurts our recruiting. Recruits want PT, but they want to also play on winning teams and not get double teamed.I.E. IMO it would be more disireable for Sampson to play alongside MO,then to just take Mos place. How is Sampson to differentiate between a PR stunt and reality.
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Moe's stock will never be higher for THIS YEAR'S draft than it is right now coming off that great game against Pitt. That will change as teams start to dissect his body and his game. The kid is simply not ready for the NBA at this point--both his body and his game need work. He shot less than 25% from three and under 70% from the FT line! He's very thin and weak by NBA standards. He has not proven that he can defend his position. That is something he hasn't had to do at all this season. When teams look at tape closely the will see that Moe often doesn't jump for rebounds because of his exception size and length.
If he's being projected in the late first round (#21 according to draft express), that also presents the problem of being considered by winning teams looking to add players to contribute right away. Add in the scary fact that just about every other player around him right now is more ready physically and has more experience--even the international kids at the same age who have ben playing professionally for the past few seasons.
He will make more money in the short term by staying a year and working his way into the lottery. He might also extend his NBA career. He'll be the focus at St. John's, but he'l be an after though in the NBA for a few years. It is not uncommon for players in the first round to disappear very quickly from the NBA.
With that written, it's tough to say no to the NBA. I will cheer for him the rest of my life in whatever he does, and I'd expect our entire fan base to do the same. He started the flood of players to St. John's and I know I won't forget that. The kid has all the makings of a fine NBA player if he works on his body and his game.
I'm convinced there is no better recruiting tool than pointing to a player in the NBA at the same position and saying that he is a product of your staff's coaching, a product of your current system, and telling the recruit that he's next if he gets on board. Nobody will capitalize on that more than Steve Lavin. I'm sure all the coaches recruiting against Lav have tried to minimize Lav's success with producing NBA players by saying things like "that was at UCLA" and "this is a completely different system with completely different coaches." Now Lav would be able to say "I did it at Purdue, I did it at UCLA, and I'm already doing it here at STJ. Look at Harkless. In one season he went from being a kid not even ranked in the top 40 in his class to being chosen in the first round. Why? Because we have the best staff in the country, we have a system that showcase players' talents, and no place in the country is more visible to NBA scouts and GM's than NYC." This is truly a win-win situation for St. John's.
Well said, I believe this is another ingenious PR tactic by lav to bolster the attention around the program. harkless isn't leaving but the media attention around him possibly leaving is great attention especially if they drag it out to the end and he decides to take his talents back to utopia pkwy
I was thinking the same thing. But after analyzing the situation, I think it hurts our recruiting. Recruits want PT, but they want to also play on winning teams and not get double teamed.I.E. IMO it would be more disireable for Sampson to play alongside MO,then to just take Mos place. How is Sampson to differentiate between a PR stunt and reality.
Nobody will ever be double-teamed with Harrison lurking on the perimeter. That kid can score every which way possible and is an assassin from three.
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Mo Harkless is NOT ready for the NBA. Leaving after one good year on q team where he had free reign to shoot as much as he would like would be a major mistake. He would be stapled to a bench ine league for a few years.
I do understand the economics of coming out and getting your service time clock started but if he has one bad work out for a team looking to draft him and falls to the second round he has really hurt himself, his future and his family.
Stay in school, have monster Sophmore season and be a Lottery pick, this is a no brainer?
He's being raised by a single mother who works part time at Applebees. When you're offered a high-6-figure or low-7-figure job in the family financial situation that he's in, don't try to tell any reasonable human being that going back to the 30k a year job (the value of a scholarship at St. John's) is a "no brainer". I also don't want to hear about the career insurance, because for the most part that can only be collected in full value if an Eric Legrand-like injury occurs. Moe's income can disappear with one bad landing off a jump for a rebound.
And by the way, what defenses do you face in the NBA?? man-to-man. And what teams did Moe TEAR APART this year?? The ones that defended in man-to-man. AND he did it while playing out of position.
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Mo Harkless is NOT ready for the NBA. Leaving after one good year on q team where he had free reign to shoot as much as he would like would be a major mistake. He would be stapled to a bench ine league for a few years.
I do understand the economics of coming out and getting your service time clock started but if he has one bad work out for a team looking to draft him and falls to the second round he has really hurt himself, his future and his family.
Stay in school, have monster Sophmore season and be a Lottery pick, this is a no brainer?
And by the way, what defenses do you face in the NBA?? man-to-man. And what teams did Moe TEAR APART this year?? The ones that defended in man-to-man. AND he did it while playing out of position.
Theo, dont you think him playing out of position had a lot to do with him being successful against man to man defenses? I think he has a lot to prove going against 3's.
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Mo Harkless is NOT ready for the NBA. Leaving after one good year on q team where he had free reign to shoot as much as he would like would be a major mistake. He would be stapled to a bench ine league for a few years.
I do understand the economics of coming out and getting your service time clock started but if he has one bad work out for a team looking to draft him and falls to the second round he has really hurt himself, his future and his family.
Stay in school, have monster Sophmore season and be a Lottery pick, this is a no brainer?
He's being raised by a single mother who works part time at Applebees. When you're offered a high-6-figure or low-7-figure job in the family financial situation that he's in, don't try to tell any reasonable human being that going back to the 30k a year job (the value of a scholarship at St. John's) is a "no brainer". I also don't want to hear about the career insurance, because for the most part that can only be collected in full value if an Eric Legrand-like injury occurs. Moe's income can disappear with one bad landing off a jump for a rebound.
And by the way, what defenses do you face in the NBA?? man-to-man. And what teams did Moe TEAR APART this year?? The ones that defended in man-to-man. AND he did it while playing out of position.
Financial issues aside, I agree that he is NOT ready and it would be a mistake for him to go to the NBA now. His jumpshot needs work, and playing time and experience will help his all around game. Yes, the best coaches are in the NBA, but where will he be able to better develop his skills? Playing 10 minutes a game off the bench in the NBA or 40 minutes a game playing in the Big East. I understand it's not a "no brainer" do to his family situation, but I think it would benefit him in the long run to stay in school for at least one more year.
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Mo Harkless is NOT ready for the NBA. Leaving after one good year on q team where he had free reign to shoot as much as he would like would be a major mistake. He would be stapled to a bench ine league for a few years.
I do understand the economics of coming out and getting your service time clock started but if he has one bad work out for a team looking to draft him and falls to the second round he has really hurt himself, his future and his family.
Stay in school, have monster Sophmore season and be a Lottery pick, this is a no brainer?
He's being raised by a single mother who works part time at Applebees. When you're offered a high-6-figure or low-7-figure job in the family financial situation that he's in, don't try to tell any reasonable human being that going back to the 30k a year job (the value of a scholarship at St. John's) is a "no brainer". I also don't want to hear about the career insurance, because for the most part that can only be collected in full value if an Eric Legrand-like injury occurs. Moe's income can disappear with one bad landing off a jump for a rebound.
And by the way, what defenses do you face in the NBA?? man-to-man. And what teams did Moe TEAR APART this year?? The ones that defended in man-to-man. AND he did it while playing out of position.
Financial issues aside, I agree that he is NOT ready and it would be a mistake for him to go to the NBA now. His jumpshot needs work, and playing time and experience will help his all around game. Yes, the best coaches are in the NBA, but where will he be able to better develop his skills? Playing 10 minutes a game off the bench in the NBA or 40 minutes a game playing in the Big East. I understand it's not a "no brainer" do to his family situation, but I think it would benefit him in the long run to stay in school for at least one more year.
I don't think its obvious either way. It's a very hard decision and in some ways you're rolling the dice either way you go. However to say that passing up THAT type of money when your family is in THAT type of financial situation is a "no brainer" is a bit mind boggling to me.
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I hear ya, but next year he could be getting lottery money.
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Mo Harkless is NOT ready for the NBA. Leaving after one good year on q team where he had free reign to shoot as much as he would like would be a major mistake. He would be stapled to a bench ine league for a few years.
I do understand the economics of coming out and getting your service time clock started but if he has one bad work out for a team looking to draft him and falls to the second round he has really hurt himself, his future and his family.
Stay in school, have monster Sophmore season and be a Lottery pick, this is a no brainer?
He's being raised by a single mother who works part time at Applebees. When you're offered a high-6-figure or low-7-figure job in the family financial situation that he's in, don't try to tell any reasonable human being that going back to the 30k a year job (the value of a scholarship at St. John's) is a "no brainer". I also don't want to hear about the career insurance, because for the most part that can only be collected in full value if an Eric Legrand-like injury occurs. Moe's income can disappear with one bad landing off a jump for a rebound.
And by the way, what defenses do you face in the NBA?? man-to-man. And what teams did Moe TEAR APART this year?? The ones that defended in man-to-man. AND he did it while playing out of position.
Financial issues aside, I agree that he is NOT ready and it would be a mistake for him to go to the NBA now. His jumpshot needs work, and playing time and experience will help his all around game. Yes, the best coaches are in the NBA, but where will he be able to better develop his skills? Playing 10 minutes a game off the bench in the NBA or 40 minutes a game playing in the Big East. I understand it's not a "no brainer" do to his family situation, but I think it would benefit him in the long run to stay in school for at least one more year.
I don't think its obvious either way. It's a very hard decision and in some ways you're rolling the dice either way you go. However to say that passing up THAT type of money when your family is in THAT type of financial situation is a "no brainer" is a bit mind boggling to me.
Yes, it's a very tough decision either way, but the $ difference between the 25th pick and the 10th pick is quite a lot. With the loaded draft class this year 25 is about where he'll most likely fall, and Moe being able to play his more natural position next year, I think being a top 10 pick is a very real possibility. I hope the people advising him are telling him this.
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I hear ya, but next year he could be getting lottery money.
I think he's a lottery pick right now. Can't find 10 better Players, minus europeans
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I hear ya, but next year he could be getting lottery money.
I think he's a lottery pick right now. Can't find 10 better Players, minus europeans
The minus Europeans part is a big one. Euros, Africans, South Americans can jump into the lottery, and for the last 15 years have. Guys like Omar Cook didn't keep that in mind. Hopefully Harkless thinks this through, but I think Lavin needs to produce the right kind of frontcourt players to give Moe the chance to play his position.
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I hear ya, but next year he could be getting lottery money.
I think he's a lottery pick right now. Can't find 10 better Players, minus europeans
The minus Europeans part is a big one. Euros, Africans, South Americans can jump into the lottery, and for the last 15 years have. Guys like Omar Cook didn't keep that in mind. Hopefully Harkless thinks this through, but I think Lavin needs to produce the right kind of frontcourt players to give Moe the chance to play his position.
There are NBA people that think there will be 11 Europeans selected in NEXT year's NBA draft 1st round.
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Theo to think in terms of one year vs. potentially setting your family up forever is short sited and short minded. If this kid has strong advisors in his circlew they are telling him to go back to school.
He is NOT a Lottery Pick this year, no chance.
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I hear ya, but next year he could be getting lottery money.
I think he's a lottery pick right now. Can't find 10 better Players, minus europeans
The minus Europeans part is a big one. Euros, Africans, South Americans can jump into the lottery, and for the last 15 years have. Guys like Omar Cook didn't keep that in mind. Hopefully Harkless thinks this through, but I think Lavin needs to produce the right kind of frontcourt players to give Moe the chance to play his position.
There are NBA people that think there will be 11 Europeans selected in NEXT year's NBA draft 1st round.
Interesting since NBADraft.net has only 1 in the first round, and not many in the 2nd either.
*Also DraftExpress has only 1 Euro in the 1st round.
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Theo to think in terms of one year vs. potentially setting your family up forever is short sited and short minded. If this kid has strong advisors in his circlew they are telling him to go back to school.
He is NOT a Lottery Pick this year, no chance.
I think what Theo is pointing out is the NBA is guaranteed money. It's different than MLB & NFL drafts. If you have an opportunity its hard to pass up.
On the flip side I also agree with you PMG that his potential is greater if he waits 1 more year but you never know.
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How many times moe come up gimpy this season?
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How many times moe come up gimpy this season?
He didn't miss any games. Relevance?
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How many times moe come up gimpy this season?
He didn't miss any games. Relevance?
The thought of injury might have been on mind
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I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract. I am in total agreement on that.
HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
And is he as strong as he should be?? No. Does his jump shot need work?? Yes. But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason).
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I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract. I am in total agreement on that.
HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
And is he as strong as he should be?? No. Does his jump shot need work?? Yes. But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason).
Do you get better playing or practicing? I agree on the skills training he will get at the next level, but can't imagine from what I saw this year that he will get much playing time next year if he goes. The money is the issue, and the security it can bring to his family. I believe it was in the Nerlens Noel story in the NY Times, that many kids who don't have extended careers, go through their money pretty quickly, I was surprised how fast. Easy for me to say, but believe another year would benefit him greatly as he matures both physically and mentally. Watching Brad Beal of U. of Florida last Saturday, I can see him getting solid minutes right away, don't feel that way about Moe at all.
After reading Nate Blue's comments on Boeheim, I hope Moe has someone in his family more mature and intelligent advising him. Thought Boeheim's advice was on the money for Moe. Either way it was a pleasure watching him this year.
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I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract. I am in total agreement on that.
HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
And is he as strong as he should be?? No. Does his jump shot need work?? Yes. But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason).
Do you get better playing or practicing? I agree on the skills training he will get at the next level, but can't imagine from what I saw this year that he will get much playing time next year if he goes. The money is the issue, and the security it can bring to his family. I believe it was in the Nerlens Noel story in the NY Times, that many kids who don't have extended careers, go through their money pretty quickly, I was surprised how fast. Easy for me to say, but believe another year would benefit him greatly as he matures both physically and mentally. Watching Brad Beal of U. of Florida last Saturday, I can see him getting solid minutes right away, don't feel that way about Moe at all.
After reading Nate Blue's comments on Boeheim, I hope Moe has someone in his family more mature and intelligent advising him. Thought Boeheim's advice was on the money for Moe. Either way it was a pleasure watching him this year.
What did Blue say about Boeheim?
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I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract. I am in total agreement on that.
HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
And is he as strong as he should be?? No. Does his jump shot need work?? Yes. But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason).
Do you get better playing or practicing? I agree on the skills training he will get at the next level, but can't imagine from what I saw this year that he will get much playing time next year if he goes. The money is the issue, and the security it can bring to his family. I believe it was in the Nerlens Noel story in the NY Times, that many kids who don't have extended careers, go through their money pretty quickly, I was surprised how fast. Easy for me to say, but believe another year would benefit him greatly as he matures both physically and mentally. Watching Brad Beal of U. of Florida last Saturday, I can see him getting solid minutes right away, don't feel that way about Moe at all.
After reading Nate Blue's comments on Boeheim, I hope Moe has someone in his family more mature and intelligent advising him. Thought Boeheim's advice was on the money for Moe. Either way it was a pleasure watching him this year.
What did Blue say about Boeheim?
Pretty much told him to worry about his child molesting asst coach and players failing drug tests and worry about being crooked since Conrad Mcrae instead of commenting on Moe.
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I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract. I am in total agreement on that.
HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
And is he as strong as he should be?? No. Does his jump shot need work?? Yes. But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason).
Do you get better playing or practicing? I agree on the skills training he will get at the next level, but can't imagine from what I saw this year that he will get much playing time next year if he goes. The money is the issue, and the security it can bring to his family. I believe it was in the Nerlens Noel story in the NY Times, that many kids who don't have extended careers, go through their money pretty quickly, I was surprised how fast. Easy for me to say, but believe another year would benefit him greatly as he matures both physically and mentally. Watching Brad Beal of U. of Florida last Saturday, I can see him getting solid minutes right away, don't feel that way about Moe at all.
After reading Nate Blue's comments on Boeheim, I hope Moe has someone in his family more mature and intelligent advising him. Thought Boeheim's advice was on the money for Moe. Either way it was a pleasure watching him this year.
Whoa. I'm not if you know Nate or not but I do. He speaks his mind and his online persona may come across poorly to some but he knows what he's doing. He's very smart when it comes to this stuff. Real recognize real! Nate can read situations very well. He's very loyal too and he has St. John's interest in mind. Just let things play out.
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I'm glad somebody called Boeheim out for that crap. I'm a big fan of Nate.
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I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract. I am in total agreement on that.
HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
And is he as strong as he should be?? No. Does his jump shot need work?? Yes. But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason).
Do you get better playing or practicing? I agree on the skills training he will get at the next level, but can't imagine from what I saw this year that he will get much playing time next year if he goes. The money is the issue, and the security it can bring to his family. I believe it was in the Nerlens Noel story in the NY Times, that many kids who don't have extended careers, go through their money pretty quickly, I was surprised how fast. Easy for me to say, but believe another year would benefit him greatly as he matures both physically and mentally. Watching Brad Beal of U. of Florida last Saturday, I can see him getting solid minutes right away, don't feel that way about Moe at all.
After reading Nate Blue's comments on Boeheim, I hope Moe has someone in his family more mature and intelligent advising him. Thought Boeheim's advice was on the money for Moe. Either way it was a pleasure watching him this year.
Whoa. I'm not if you know Nate or not but I do. He speaks his mind and his online persona may come across poorly to some but he knows what he's doing. He's very smart when it comes to this stuff. Real recognize real! Nate can read situations very well. He's very loyal too and he has St. John's interest in mind. Just let things play out.
Trying to understand your side, but after the 4th or 5th tweet, I question that opinion. I wouldn't know Nate if he walked in the door, but the Boeheim quote was not that offensive, it was just an opinion. Nate was offensive, wouldn't you agree?
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I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract. I am in total agreement on that.
HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
And is he as strong as he should be?? No. Does his jump shot need work?? Yes. But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason).
Do you get better playing or practicing? I agree on the skills training he will get at the next level, but can't imagine from what I saw this year that he will get much playing time next year if he goes. The money is the issue, and the security it can bring to his family. I believe it was in the Nerlens Noel story in the NY Times, that many kids who don't have extended careers, go through their money pretty quickly, I was surprised how fast. Easy for me to say, but believe another year would benefit him greatly as he matures both physically and mentally. Watching Brad Beal of U. of Florida last Saturday, I can see him getting solid minutes right away, don't feel that way about Moe at all.
After reading Nate Blue's comments on Boeheim, I hope Moe has someone in his family more mature and intelligent advising him. Thought Boeheim's advice was on the money for Moe. Either way it was a pleasure watching him this year.
Whoa. I'm not if you know Nate or not but I do. He speaks his mind and his online persona may come across poorly to some but he knows what he's doing. He's very smart when it comes to this stuff. Real recognize real! Nate can read situations very well. He's very loyal too and he has St. John's interest in mind. Just let things play out.
i read his posts all the time. he definitely doesn't have a filter, but you can tell that he's a fan of sju. and i think A LOT has to do with Lavin. he's even given Dunlap props for how he's developed Moe. i like Nate. he keeps it real.
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I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract. I am in total agreement on that.
HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
And is he as strong as he should be?? No. Does his jump shot need work?? Yes. But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason).
Do you get better playing or practicing? I agree on the skills training he will get at the next level, but can't imagine from what I saw this year that he will get much playing time next year if he goes. The money is the issue, and the security it can bring to his family. I believe it was in the Nerlens Noel story in the NY Times, that many kids who don't have extended careers, go through their money pretty quickly, I was surprised how fast. Easy for me to say, but believe another year would benefit him greatly as he matures both physically and mentally. Watching Brad Beal of U. of Florida last Saturday, I can see him getting solid minutes right away, don't feel that way about Moe at all.
After reading Nate Blue's comments on Boeheim, I hope Moe has someone in his family more mature and intelligent advising him. Thought Boeheim's advice was on the money for Moe. Either way it was a pleasure watching him this year.
Whoa. I'm not if you know Nate or not but I do. He speaks his mind and his online persona may come across poorly to some but he knows what he's doing. He's very smart when it comes to this stuff. Real recognize real! Nate can read situations very well. He's very loyal too and he has St. John's interest in mind. Just let things play out.
Trying to understand your side, but after the 4th or 5th tweet, I question that opinion. I wouldn't know Nate if he walked in the door, but the Boeheim quote was not that offensive, it was just an opinion. Nate was offensive, wouldn't you agree?
No doubt Boeheim didn't say anything 'bad' per se.
But doesnt he have his own crap he should be concerning himself with.
Lavin isn't going to comment on Uconn or Cuse matters.
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I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract. I am in total agreement on that.
HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
And is he as strong as he should be?? No. Does his jump shot need work?? Yes. But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason).
Do you get better playing or practicing? I agree on the skills training he will get at the next level, but can't imagine from what I saw this year that he will get much playing time next year if he goes. The money is the issue, and the security it can bring to his family. I believe it was in the Nerlens Noel story in the NY Times, that many kids who don't have extended careers, go through their money pretty quickly, I was surprised how fast. Easy for me to say, but believe another year would benefit him greatly as he matures both physically and mentally. Watching Brad Beal of U. of Florida last Saturday, I can see him getting solid minutes right away, don't feel that way about Moe at all.
After reading Nate Blue's comments on Boeheim, I hope Moe has someone in his family more mature and intelligent advising him. Thought Boeheim's advice was on the money for Moe. Either way it was a pleasure watching him this year.
Whoa. I'm not if you know Nate or not but I do. He speaks his mind and his online persona may come across poorly to some but he knows what he's doing. He's very smart when it comes to this stuff. Real recognize real! Nate can read situations very well. He's very loyal too and he has St. John's interest in mind. Just let things play out.
Trying to understand your side, but after the 4th or 5th tweet, I question that opinion. I wouldn't know Nate if he walked in the door, but the Boeheim quote was not that offensive, it was just an opinion. Nate was offensive, wouldn't you agree?
No doubt Boeheim didn't say anything 'bad' per se.
But doesnt he have his own crap he should be concerning himself with.
Lavin isn't going to comment on Uconn or Cuse matters.
In fairness he was asked about it by Steve Serby in the Post as part of a larger interview. I'm sorry I don't see anything particularly offensive in his quote.
More importantly what happened to the theory put forth by some that claimed that when rival coaches said good things about Norm Roberts that they were actually subliminally saying that they wanted SJU to keep Norm because he sucks and they would presumably benefit.
Well wouldn't that apply here to? In other words everybody agrees that SJU is STRONGER WITH Harkless then without him next year. Why would Boeheim be urging him to stay at SJU to the detriment of those who have to play him next year including Syracuse?
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Because it's a freebie to dumpt stuff into your opponent's yard and watch them have to clean it up. Coach your own team you whining ______________________________.
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Keep in mind if Boeheim answered that question by saying he thought Moe was definitely ready for the NBA and was wasting his time in college he would be accused of meddling in another school's business and perhaps indirectly trying to impact the decision of another school's player.
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Dont think boeheim said anything wrong. Maybe theres something else that we dont know about
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I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract. I am in total agreement on that.
HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
And is he as strong as he should be?? No. Does his jump shot need work?? Yes. But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason).
Do you get better playing or practicing? I agree on the skills training he will get at the next level, but can't imagine from what I saw this year that he will get much playing time next year if he goes. The money is the issue, and the security it can bring to his family. I believe it was in the Nerlens Noel story in the NY Times, that many kids who don't have extended careers, go through their money pretty quickly, I was surprised how fast. Easy for me to say, but believe another year would benefit him greatly as he matures both physically and mentally. Watching Brad Beal of U. of Florida last Saturday, I can see him getting solid minutes right away, don't feel that way about Moe at all.
After reading Nate Blue's comments on Boeheim, I hope Moe has someone in his family more mature and intelligent advising him. Thought Boeheim's advice was on the money for Moe. Either way it was a pleasure watching him this year.
Whoa. I'm not if you know Nate or not but I do. He speaks his mind and his online persona may come across poorly to some but he knows what he's doing. He's very smart when it comes to this stuff. Real recognize real! Nate can read situations very well. He's very loyal too and he has St. John's interest in mind. Just let things play out.
Trying to understand your side, but after the 4th or 5th tweet, I question that opinion. I wouldn't know Nate if he walked in the door, but the Boeheim quote was not that offensive, it was just an opinion. Nate was offensive, wouldn't you agree?
No doubt Boeheim didn't say anything 'bad' per se.
But doesnt he have his own crap he should be concerning himself with.
Lavin isn't going to comment on Uconn or Cuse matters.
In fairness he was asked about it by Steve Serby in the Post as part of a larger interview. I'm sorry I don't see anything particularly offensive in his quote.
More importantly what happened to the theory put forth by some that claimed that when rival coaches said good things about Norm Roberts that they were actually subliminally saying that they wanted SJU to keep Norm because he sucks and they would presumably benefit.
Well wouldn't that apply here to? In other words everybody agrees that SJU is STRONGER WITH Harkless then without him next year. Why would Boeheim be urging him to stay at SJU to the detriment of those who have to play him next year including Syracuse?
I know that he was asked the question its not like he volunteered it. But he can also decline to answer it. I think it was a sit down and not post game presser where he would be 'on the spot'. I said I didn't see anything offense at all either. He should mind his own business. I don't know why he was even asked the question. The shoe fits both ways as in him saying he should leave also. Saying he should stay can also be interpreted as a put down.
You love bringing up the Norm Nice Guy theory. Do I think coaches say good things about their bretheren yes. Am I smart enough to interpret 'why' they are saying that, nope.
My issue is I don't think he should be commenting on other players and what they should or shouldnt do with the NBA Draft. Call him a great player, loads of potential. Leave it at that. Thats my two cents.
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I don't think the question of whether or not Boeheim was out of line is relevant. Even if he was, what Blue said on Twitter was inappropriate.
I recognize that some of the posters on these sites are kids themselves and think that personal attacks are ok when it doesn't pertain to SJU, but in the adult world that is not how one communicates. Blue's tweets are particularly inappropriate given the gravity of some of his unsupported claims.
Blue touts himself as an adviser and confident of these kids. His tweets set a poor example and suggest an immaturity and lack of judgment.
Dave -- you credit Blue for speaking his mind, but there is a difference between speaking ones mind and speaking everything that comes to ones mind. The first is an admirable character trait, the second is the mark of a fool.
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I recognize that some of the posters on these sites are kids themselves and think that personal attacks are ok when it doesn't pertain to SJU, but in the adult world that is not how one communicates.
Ohhh the good old age debate.
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Who is Nate Blue?
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Who is Nate Blue?
Jim Boeheim's ex brother in law.
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Who is Nate Blue?
Jim Boeheim's ex brother in law.
In all serious, what does Jim Boeheim know about the NBA? Outside of the 70 first round draft picks he's sent to the pros, nothing comes to mind that would lead me to believe he has Moe Harkless' best interests at heart.
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The way Nate reacted to Boeheim's correct comments leads me to believe that he thinks Moe is ready for the NBA, and that doesn't bode well for his chances of staying here.
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The way Nate reacted to Boeheim's correct comments leads me to believe that he thinks Moe is ready for the NBA, and that doesn't bode well for his chances of staying here.
Exactly back to Moe.....
I think if we can bring in some frontcourt help he could be convinced to come back.
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The way Nate reacted to Boeheim's correct comments leads me to believe that he thinks Moe is ready for the NBA, and that doesn't bode well for his chances of staying here.
The way he reacted to Boeheim's comments leads me to believe that he has no business opening his mouth.
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The way Nate reacted to Boeheim's correct comments leads me to believe that he thinks Moe is ready for the NBA, and that doesn't bode well for his chances of staying here.
Exactly back to Moe.....
I think if we can bring in some frontcourt help he could be convinced to come back.
Exactly!
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The way Nate reacted to Boeheim's correct comments leads me to believe that he thinks Moe is ready for the NBA, and that doesn't bode well for his chances of staying here.
The way he reacted to Boeheim's comments leads me to believe that he has no business opening his mouth.
How is his 'reaction' in a public forum any different than the same exact thing people do here by posting away on a message board?
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The way Nate reacted to Boeheim's correct comments leads me to believe that he thinks Moe is ready for the NBA, and that doesn't bode well for his chances of staying here.
The way he reacted to Boeheim's comments leads me to believe that he has no business opening his mouth.
How is his 'reaction' in a public forum any different than the same exact thing people do here by posting away on a message board?
He actually puts his name to it. Something many people wouldn't be willing to do.
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The way Nate reacted to Boeheim's correct comments leads me to believe that he thinks Moe is ready for the NBA, and that doesn't bode well for his chances of staying here.
The way he reacted to Boeheim's comments leads me to believe that he has no business opening his mouth.
How is his 'reaction' in a public forum any different than the same exact thing people do here by posting away on a message board?
He actually puts his name to it. Something many people wouldn't be willing to do.
True, but some posters do use their names.
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I don't know Nate, but he comes across as someone who genuinely cares for the kids he advises.
He's actually one of my favorite people to follow on twitter. He actually will answer your questions. Seems like a a great guy to have in STJ corner, regardless of what Moe ends up doing.
I'm in the camp that does not believe that the world will come to an end if Moe goes pro. We will be fine, especially if Jakarr comes aboard.
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Good points on both sides.. However, probably best to end this conversation. Jimmy B can defend himself and we have nothing to gain by bashing the other party.
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The way Nate reacted to Boeheim's correct comments leads me to believe that he thinks Moe is ready for the NBA, and that doesn't bode well for his chances of staying here.
The way he reacted to Boeheim's comments leads me to believe that he has no business opening his mouth.
How is his 'reaction' in a public forum any different than the same exact thing people do here by posting away on a message board?
He actually puts his name to it. Something many people wouldn't be willing to do.
True, but some posters do use their names.
holla mjmaherjr :)
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HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
Theo you are one of the few posters I haven't met yet and I think you are a cool poster BUT I'm just saying that it's kind of funny seeing you defend people of less privilege when all you write about on your Facebook account during the year is going back to your summer camp in the summers to hook up with chicks and to follow O.A.R in concert around the world during the rest of the year. LOL
For some reason I don't think Theo Rabinowitz lived the hard knocks life :)
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I'm glad somebody called Boeheim out for that crap. I'm a big fan of Nate.
Would you still be a big fan if he leads his next 3 top players to Rutgers and not St. John's?
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I'm glad somebody called Boeheim out for that crap. I'm a big fan of Nate.
Would you still be a big fan if he leads his next 3 top players to Rutgers and not St. John's?
Well if our posters keep bashing him the decision will be easy :)
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HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
Theo you are one of the few posters I haven't met yet and I think you are a cool poster BUT I'm just saying that it's kind of funny seeing you defend people of less privilege when all you write about on your Facebook account during the year is going back to your summer camp in the summers to hook up with chicks and to follow O.A.R in concert around the world during the rest of the year. LOL
For some reason I don't think Theo Rabinowitz lived the hard knocks life :)
You lost me at O.A.R...
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HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
Theo you are one of the few posters I haven't met yet and I think you are a cool poster BUT I'm just saying that it's kind of funny seeing you defend people of less privilege when all you write about on your Facebook account during the year is going back to your summer camp in the summers to hook up with chicks and to follow O.A.R in concert around the world during the rest of the year. LOL
For some reason I don't think Theo Rabinowitz lived the hard knocks life :)
You lost me at O.A.R...
I didn't know who they were either but Theo follows them around like they were the grateful dead.
No joke if they play 8 times he sees them 9
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HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
Theo you are one of the few posters I haven't met yet and I think you are a cool poster BUT I'm just saying that it's kind of funny seeing you defend people of less privilege when all you write about on your Facebook account during the year is going back to your summer camp in the summers to hook up with chicks and to follow O.A.R in concert around the world during the rest of the year. LOL
For some reason I don't think Theo Rabinowitz lived the hard knocks life :)
You lost me at O.A.R...
I didn't know who they were either but Theo follows them around like they were the grateful dead.
No joke if they play 8 times he sees them 9
Lol. I know who they are, i'm just not a big fan. I see a ton of live music myself, but i'm a bit older than Theo. I used to see the Dead a bunch back in the day, so i know all about touring. Tough with job, wife, and kids now though...
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HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
Theo you are one of the few posters I haven't met yet and I think you are a cool poster BUT I'm just saying that it's kind of funny seeing you defend people of less privilege when all you write about on your Facebook account during the year is going back to your summer camp in the summers to hook up with chicks and to follow O.A.R in concert around the world during the rest of the year. LOL
For some reason I don't think Theo Rabinowitz lived the hard knocks life :)
You lost me at O.A.R...
I didn't know who they were either but Theo follows them around like they were the grateful dead.
No joke if they play 8 times he sees them 9
Lol. I know who they are, i'm just not a big fan. I see a ton of live music myself, but i'm a bit older than Theo. I used to see the Dead a bunch back in the day, so i know all about touring. Tough with job, wife, and kids now though...
Damn I thought you were younger than me and I'm 42. I'm not even sure if Theo is legal to drink yet
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HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
Theo you are one of the few posters I haven't met yet and I think you are a cool poster BUT I'm just saying that it's kind of funny seeing you defend people of less privilege when all you write about on your Facebook account during the year is going back to your summer camp in the summers to hook up with chicks and to follow O.A.R in concert around the world during the rest of the year. LOL
For some reason I don't think Theo Rabinowitz lived the hard knocks life :)
You lost me at O.A.R...
I didn't know who they were either but Theo follows them around like they were the grateful dead.
No joke if they play 8 times he sees them 9
Lol. I know who they are, i'm just not a big fan. I see a ton of live music myself, but i'm a bit older than Theo. I used to see the Dead a bunch back in the day, so i know all about touring. Tough with job, wife, and kids now though...
Damn I thought you were younger than me and I'm 42. I'm not even sure if Theo is legal to drink yet
I'll be 39 in 2 weeks.
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HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
Theo you are one of the few posters I haven't met yet and I think you are a cool poster BUT I'm just saying that it's kind of funny seeing you defend people of less privilege when all you write about on your Facebook account during the year is going back to your summer camp in the summers to hook up with chicks and to follow O.A.R in concert around the world during the rest of the year. LOL
For some reason I don't think Theo Rabinowitz lived the hard knocks life :)
You lost me at O.A.R...
I didn't know who they were either but Theo follows them around like they were the grateful dead.
No joke if they play 8 times he sees them 9
Lol. I know who they are, i'm just not a big fan. I see a ton of live music myself, but i'm a bit older than Theo. I used to see the Dead a bunch back in the day, so i know all about touring. Tough with job, wife, and kids now though...
Damn I thought you were younger than me and I'm 42. I'm not even sure if Theo is legal to drink yet
I'll be 39 in 2 weeks.
Well at least I was right about you being younger. :)
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I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract. I am in total agreement on that.
HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
And is he as strong as he should be?? No. Does his jump shot need work?? Yes. But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason).
Do you get better playing or practicing? I agree on the skills training he will get at the next level, but can't imagine from what I saw this year that he will get much playing time next year if he goes. The money is the issue, and the security it can bring to his family. I believe it was in the Nerlens Noel story in the NY Times, that many kids who don't have extended careers, go through their money pretty quickly, I was surprised how fast. Easy for me to say, but believe another year would benefit him greatly as he matures both physically and mentally. Watching Brad Beal of U. of Florida last Saturday, I can see him getting solid minutes right away, don't feel that way about Moe at all.
After reading Nate Blue's comments on Boeheim, I hope Moe has someone in his family more mature and intelligent advising him. Thought Boeheim's advice was on the money for Moe. Either way it was a pleasure watching him this year.
Whoa. I'm not if you know Nate or not but I do. He speaks his mind and his online persona may come across poorly to some but he knows what he's doing. He's very smart when it comes to this stuff. Real recognize real! Nate can read situations very well. He's very loyal too and he has St. John's interest in mind. Just let things play out.
Trying to understand your side, but after the 4th or 5th tweet, I question that opinion. I wouldn't know Nate if he walked in the door, but the Boeheim quote was not that offensive, it was just an opinion. Nate was offensive, wouldn't you agree?
No doubt Boeheim didn't say anything 'bad' per se.
But doesnt he have his own crap he should be concerning himself with.
Lavin isn't going to comment on Uconn or Cuse matters.
In fairness he was asked about it by Steve Serby in the Post as part of a larger interview. I'm sorry I don't see anything particularly offensive in his quote.
More importantly what happened to the theory put forth by some that claimed that when rival coaches said good things about Norm Roberts that they were actually subliminally saying that they wanted SJU to keep Norm because he sucks and they would presumably benefit.
Well wouldn't that apply here to? In other words everybody agrees that SJU is STRONGER WITH Harkless then without him next year. Why would Boeheim be urging him to stay at SJU to the detriment of those who have to play him next year including Syracuse?
I know that he was asked the question its not like he volunteered it. But he can also decline to answer it. I think it was a sit down and not post game presser where he would be 'on the spot'. I said I didn't see anything offense at all either. He should mind his own business. I don't know why he was even asked the question. The shoe fits both ways as in him saying he should leave also. Saying he should stay can also be interpreted as a put down.
You love bringing up the Norm Nice Guy theory. Do I think coaches say good things about their bretheren yes. Am I smart enough to interpret 'why' they are saying that, nope.
My issue is I don't think he should be commenting on other players and what they should or shouldnt do with the NBA Draft. Call him a great player, loads of potential. Leave it at that. Thats my two cents.
The Norm comment was not meant for you it was meant for others.
And Serby asked an innocent question because he is a NY reporter and SJU is the NY school in the Big East and Boeheim answered it. I don't have any issues with it.
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Theo you are one of the few posters I haven't met yet and I think you are a cool poster BUT I'm just saying that it's kind of funny seeing you defend people of less privilege when all you write about on your Facebook account during the year is going back to your summer camp in the summers to hook up with chicks and to follow O.A.R in concert around the world during the rest of the year. LOL
For some reason I don't think Theo Rabinowitz lived the hard knocks life :)
Let's leave O.A.R out of this. They never hurt anyone!
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Theo you are one of the few posters I haven't met yet and I think you are a cool poster BUT I'm just saying that it's kind of funny seeing you defend people of less privilege when all you write about on your Facebook account during the year is going back to your summer camp in the summers to hook up with chicks and to follow O.A.R in concert around the world during the rest of the year. LOL
For some reason I don't think Theo Rabinowitz lived the hard knocks life :)
Let's leave O.A.R out of this. They never hurt anyone!
EXACTLY!!! haha. No i absolutely did not grow up in any hard knock life but I'm sensitive enough to know that people DO grow up in a different financial situation and that it's easy to sit up on a perch and say to turn down that money but that's simply not reality.
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I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract. I am in total agreement on that.
HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
And is he as strong as he should be?? No. Does his jump shot need work?? Yes. But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason).
Who's side are you on, T? Redmen fans every where should be a united front in saying, knowing and writing that Moe and his family's interests are best served by returning for another season or two.
Now that's a no brainer.
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How can you not like Nate Blue? Dude is for real.
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How can you not like Nate Blue? Dude is for real.
Dude is an amateur.
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If you dont like his tweets then dont follow him. He gave his opinion and he has a right to voice it. He isn't a coach and doesn't work for the team so what he said is totally harmless. He did nothing wrong
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Good bye mo and good luck. The nicest kid I have met other than erv walker in this basketball community. We will be fine let him follow his dream that boy will be just fine
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Good bye mo and good luck. The nicest kid I have met other than erv walker in this basketball community. We will be fine let him follow his dream that boy will be just fine
I have no doubt he will be fine. I would just love to have him back for his sophomore year and I think it would help him in the long run.
Good luck moe whatever you chose!
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Good bye mo and good luck. The nicest kid I have met other than erv walker in this basketball community. We will be fine let him follow his dream that boy will be just fine
Those who have played at SJ and in the NBA as well think he's crazy to even put his name in the Draft. Will he be drafted? Sure. Is he ready? Of course not.
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Good bye mo and good luck. The nicest kid I have met other than erv walker in this basketball community. We will be fine let him follow his dream that boy will be just fine
He's 100% definitely gone?
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I agree that if he came back another year he'd be a higher pick, get a bigger first contract which could lead to a bigger second contract. I am in total agreement on that.
HOWEVER, when you grow up in the economic situation and family situation he is in, it is in no way shape or form a "no brainer" to risk losing everything to come back another year. At the very least its a very hard decision either way. Don't try telling a guy or his family that sticking it out in poverty another year when theres that much money on the table is a "no brainer". That's almost an insult to reality.
And is he as strong as he should be?? No. Does his jump shot need work?? Yes. But since when were there not weight rooms and strength coaches in NBA practice facilities?? Since when were there not coaches in the NBA that can work with a player on their jumpsuit?? These can all be fixed just as easily or even MORE easily in the NBA than in college (where dumb NCAA rules only allow a few hours of workouts with coaches per week in offseason).
Who's side are you on, T? Redmen fans every where should be a united front in saying, knowing and writing that Moe and his family's interests are best served by returning for another season or two.
Now that's a no brainer.
Of COURSE I want him to stay!! But I could never tell a kid that grows up in a single parent household under tough economic conditions that its a "no brainer" for him to pass up that kind of money. I don't think its an easy decision either way. I would love for him to come back but I completely understand if he doesn't.
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Of COURSE I want him to stay!! But I could never tell a kid that grows up in a single parent household under tough economic conditions that its a "no brainer" for him to pass up that kind of money. I don't think its an easy decision either way. I would love for him to come back but I completely understand if he doesn't.
This here is wisdom.
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There are some things that Moe does like an NBA player. However, he needs to get a lot stronger. He needs to work on his handle, and he needs serious work on his 3 point shot. Going when you're ready is the smart thing to do.
Set your family up, but do it with the least possible risk.
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This here is wisdom.
The real wisdom would be having wise people around you that were not short sighted and didn't see the big picture for your future.
Think about the difference between making say $5.3mm or making $3.3mm because that is the difference between the 10th pick and the 21st pick in the NBA Draft.
If Moe has one bad workout he could fall to 2nd Rd and not even get guaranteed money.
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Some people don't know the difference between 3 and 5 nil
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Some people don't know the difference between 3 and 5 nil
He's a string bean, and he's not 7'2. It could be the difference between 5 mil and nothing. Then what does he have? Europe? Asia? Nothing?
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You can't live your life like that, anyone could get hit by a bus tomorrow
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Some people don't know the difference between 3 and 5 nil
He's a string bean, and he's not 7'2. It could be the difference between 5 mil and nothing. Then what does he have? Europe? Asia? Nothing?
He would make over 10X more in Europe in a year than the value of a St. John's scholarship. Don't trash that either.
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Some people don't know the difference between 3 and 5 nil
He's a string bean, and he's not 7'2. It could be the difference between 5 mil and nothing. Then what does he have? Europe? Asia? Nothing?
He would make over 10X more in Europe in a year than the value of a St. John's scholarship. Don't trash that either.
Ask Omar Cook if he made the right choice? Ask a guy who single handedly took out Kentucky, Uconn and Boston College if that was the right call. You're talking about a freshman who had a good freshman season. Not an amazing freshman season. He could go pro and not get drafted until the second round. No one thought that Cook would be passed over, but he was.
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think he should stay one more year but if he has a promise he got to do what he got to do for himself and his fam. We will be ok with Jakarr coming in and another player put into the nba will only help recruiting. hark in the nba is a win win for everyone at the end of the day I guess
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What if Harkless goes pro, gets drafted in the second round, and cut several months later? His game isn't much different than Hakim Warrick IMOP. That guy stayed 3 years in college. He proved beyond any doubt that he was a first round pick.
And ya know what, he wasn't coming from a wealthy family where he could afford to. These people who are telling him to go take the money are fools or conniving thieves who clearly don't have his best interests at heart.
If you care about Harkless help him make a choice that's right for him. Leaving in no manor shape or form before you're ready will be a disaster. He won the BE ROY, but let's not forget that in at least half our games he overmatched by a stronger more experienced player.
Work on your game Moe. You'll get there, but slow down, and do it the right way.
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NBADraft.net has him going 16th to Houston.
Who knows???
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I see no reason why he should not enter his name and not hire a agent. Let him go through the process and learn where he stands. He can always come back if he feel he could drop out of the 1st round.
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I see no reason why he should not enter his name and not hire a agent. Let him go through the process and learn where he stands. He can always come back if he feel he could drop out of the 1st round.
[/quote
Rules changes, no turning back now
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Again I do not think that is true. It appears that there is a new and much shorter deadline, early April as opposed to just before the draft, but there is still a chance you can declare and pull back from the draft with no eligiblity loss.
See article on Maalik Wayns:
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-03-14/nba-draft-maalik-wayns-to-leave-villanova-early-for-nba (http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-03-14/nba-draft-maalik-wayns-to-leave-villanova-early-for-nba)
Now, NCAA rules mandate players make up their minds by April 10. Reynolds was able to use the lessons learned during the draft process to return to Villanova and construct an All-American senior season that helped the Wildcats earn a No. 2 NCAA seed.
It is not so much that the NCAA did away with the old rules they just pushed up the time frame. The earlier rule was an NBA rule that the NCAA went along with, well the NCAA then pushed up the date to much earlier. The NBA actually never changed their rules but they don't control the NCAA. So the NCAA did this to make it harder for a kid to come back and retain his eligiblity. Harder mind you but still not impossible.
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This here is wisdom.
The real wisdom would be having wise people around you that were not short sighted and didn't see the big picture for your future.
Think about the difference between making say $5.3mm or making $3.3mm because that is the difference between the 10th pick and the 21st pick in the NBA Draft.
If Moe has one bad workout he could fall to 2nd Rd and not even get guaranteed money.
10th pick actually makes $5.85mill in first three years. I was comparing it to 25 pick and that's $2.9mill over first three years. Double the money to me makes it a no brainer but as Theo points out I'm not of need, never have been. But Mo is certainly not a can't miss prospect. His first contract could very well be the best one he ever gets. Don't understand why his advisors don't see it would be worth the year to make sure it's as large as possible. Most of us will make over $2.9 mill in our careers but I'm betting far fewer will make $5.8 mill. It's a substantial difference. Especially if you're supporting a troop of hangers on (or kids LOL). I'm sure Mo will make a decent living if he goes this year and if he doesn't make it in the NBA will collect a check making ball somewhere for the next 10 years. But a lottery contract helps set you up for life.
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Linch pins of Lavin recruiting are NBA readiness via Rico, Dunlap, etc and past success getting kids to next level. Want Moe to stay, but his success this year and going to NBA only confirms that. Big issue to recruits!
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This here is wisdom.
The real wisdom would be having wise people around you that were not short sighted and didn't see the big picture for your future.
Think about the difference between making say $5.3mm or making $3.3mm because that is the difference between the 10th pick and the 21st pick in the NBA Draft.
If Moe has one bad workout he could fall to 2nd Rd and not even get guaranteed money.
10th pick actually makes $5.85mill in first three years. I was comparing it to 25 pick and that's $2.9mill over first three years. Double the money to me makes it a no brainer but as Theo points out I'm not of need, never have been. But Mo is certainly not a can't miss prospect. His first contract could very well be the best one he ever gets. Don't understand why his advisors don't see it would be worth the year to make sure it's as large as possible. Most of us will make over $2.9 mill in our careers but I'm betting far fewer will make $5.8 mill. It's a substantial difference. Especially if you're supporting a troop of hangers on (or kids LOL). I'm sure Mo will make a decent living if he goes this year and if he doesn't make it in the NBA will collect a check making ball somewhere for the next 10 years. But a lottery contract helps set you up for life.
UCLA had two klids go early last year - Tyler Honeycutt (soph) and Malcolm Lee (Jr). Both went in the 2nd round. But both ended up with guaranteed contracts - about 3 mill apiece. Tyler with the Kings, Malcolm with the Twolves.
One other thing when figuring $$$$'s - is the value of the 2nd contract. Getting to that 2nd contract one or two years earlier than if you stay in college. Russell Westbrook just signed his 2nd contract - it's for $80 mill over 5 year s- $16 million a year. Under his rookie contract (top 5 pick), he made 4 million this year in his 3rd yer of the contract. Figuring his career has a finite end on matter when it starts, if he had stayed at UCLA another year, that's TWELVE MILLION DOLLARS for the coming year he would have lost, that he could never regain.
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NBADraft.net has him going 16th to Houston.
Who knows???
And what Europeans are they considering? Or are they completely ignoring all foreign players?
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NBADraft.net has him going 16th to Houston.
Who knows???
And what Europeans are they considering? Or are they completely ignoring all foreign players?
They have some fer-in-errs in the second round. Here is the link http://www.nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft (http://www.nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft)
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This here is wisdom.
The real wisdom would be having wise people around you that were not short sighted and didn't see the big picture for your future.
Think about the difference between making say $5.3mm or making $3.3mm because that is the difference between the 10th pick and the 21st pick in the NBA Draft.
If Moe has one bad workout he could fall to 2nd Rd and not even get guaranteed money.
10th pick actually makes $5.85mill in first three years. I was comparing it to 25 pick and that's $2.9mill over first three years. Double the money to me makes it a no brainer but as Theo points out I'm not of need, never have been. But Mo is certainly not a can't miss prospect. His first contract could very well be the best one he ever gets. Don't understand why his advisors don't see it would be worth the year to make sure it's as large as possible. Most of us will make over $2.9 mill in our careers but I'm betting far fewer will make $5.8 mill. It's a substantial difference. Especially if you're supporting a troop of hangers on (or kids LOL). I'm sure Mo will make a decent living if he goes this year and if he doesn't make it in the NBA will collect a check making ball somewhere for the next 10 years. But a lottery contract helps set you up for life.
UCLA had two klids go early last year - Tyler Honeycutt (soph) and Malcolm Lee (Jr). Both went in the 2nd round. But both ended up with guaranteed contracts - about 3 mill apiece. Tyler with the Kings, Malcolm with the Twolves.
One other thing when figuring $$$$'s - is the value of the 2nd contract. Getting to that 2nd contract one or two years earlier than if you stay in college. Russell Westbrook just signed his 2nd contract - it's for $80 mill over 5 year s- $16 million a year. Under his rookie contract (top 5 pick), he made 4 million this year in his 3rd yer of the contract. Figuring his career has a finite end on matter when it starts, if he had stayed at UCLA another year, that's TWELVE MILLION DOLLARS for the coming year he would have lost, that he could never regain.
But cr, there are some current theories that many players bodies will break down by a certain range of NBA games played, regardless of when players come out (much like NFL running backs).
So if guys stay in college another year, they'll only be able to play a certain # of games within a range that their body will allow anyway, so they might as well use another year in school to get stronger and enjoy the limited game schedule and practice more.
I'm not dismissing the opportunity cost in the equation, just offering an alternative view I've read that some stat guys out there have mentioned.
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This here is wisdom.
The real wisdom would be having wise people around you that were not short sighted and didn't see the big picture for your future.
Think about the difference between making say $5.3mm or making $3.3mm because that is the difference between the 10th pick and the 21st pick in the NBA Draft.
If Moe has one bad workout he could fall to 2nd Rd and not even get guaranteed money.
10th pick actually makes $5.85mill in first three years. I was comparing it to 25 pick and that's $2.9mill over first three years. Double the money to me makes it a no brainer but as Theo points out I'm not of need, never have been. But Mo is certainly not a can't miss prospect. His first contract could very well be the best one he ever gets. Don't understand why his advisors don't see it would be worth the year to make sure it's as large as possible. Most of us will make over $2.9 mill in our careers but I'm betting far fewer will make $5.8 mill. It's a substantial difference. Especially if you're supporting a troop of hangers on (or kids LOL). I'm sure Mo will make a decent living if he goes this year and if he doesn't make it in the NBA will collect a check making ball somewhere for the next 10 years. But a lottery contract helps set you up for life.
UCLA had two klids go early last year - Tyler Honeycutt (soph) and Malcolm Lee (Jr). Both went in the 2nd round. But both ended up with guaranteed contracts - about 3 mill apiece. Tyler with the Kings, Malcolm with the Twolves.
One other thing when figuring $$$$'s - is the value of the 2nd contract. Getting to that 2nd contract one or two years earlier than if you stay in college. Russell Westbrook just signed his 2nd contract - it's for $80 mill over 5 year s- $16 million a year. Under his rookie contract (top 5 pick), he made 4 million this year in his 3rd yer of the contract. Figuring his career has a finite end on matter when it starts, if he had stayed at UCLA another year, that's TWELVE MILLION DOLLARS for the coming year he would have lost, that he could never regain.
But cr, there are some current theories that many players bodies will break down by a certain range of NBA games played, regardless of when players come out (much like NFL running backs).
So if guys stay in college another year, they'll only be able to play a certain # of games within a range that their body will allow anyway, so they might as well use another year in school to get stronger and enjoy the limited game schedule and practice more.
I'm not dismissing the opportunity cost in the equation, just offering an alternative view I've read that some stat guys out there have mentioned.
Another way to look at it is that 19 year old players will have less playing time and have better ancillary benefits (better understanding of the NBA game, first class training facilities etc). They can get all of this any bring home a nice paycheck and move closer to entering free agency at a prime age for an NBA player.
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This here is wisdom.
The real wisdom would be having wise people around you that were not short sighted and didn't see the big picture for your future.
Think about the difference between making say $5.3mm or making $3.3mm because that is the difference between the 10th pick and the 21st pick in the NBA Draft.
If Moe has one bad workout he could fall to 2nd Rd and not even get guaranteed money.
10th pick actually makes $5.85mill in first three years. I was comparing it to 25 pick and that's $2.9mill over first three years. Double the money to me makes it a no brainer but as Theo points out I'm not of need, never have been. But Mo is certainly not a can't miss prospect. His first contract could very well be the best one he ever gets. Don't understand why his advisors don't see it would be worth the year to make sure it's as large as possible. Most of us will make over $2.9 mill in our careers but I'm betting far fewer will make $5.8 mill. It's a substantial difference. Especially if you're supporting a troop of hangers on (or kids LOL). I'm sure Mo will make a decent living if he goes this year and if he doesn't make it in the NBA will collect a check making ball somewhere for the next 10 years. But a lottery contract helps set you up for life.
UCLA had two klids go early last year - Tyler Honeycutt (soph) and Malcolm Lee (Jr). Both went in the 2nd round. But both ended up with guaranteed contracts - about 3 mill apiece. Tyler with the Kings, Malcolm with the Twolves.
One other thing when figuring $$$$'s - is the value of the 2nd contract. Getting to that 2nd contract one or two years earlier than if you stay in college. Russell Westbrook just signed his 2nd contract - it's for $80 mill over 5 year s- $16 million a year. Under his rookie contract (top 5 pick), he made 4 million this year in his 3rd yer of the contract. Figuring his career has a finite end on matter when it starts, if he had stayed at UCLA another year, that's TWELVE MILLION DOLLARS for the coming year he would have lost, that he could never regain.
I think it's also fair to point out that Russell Westbrook has been a total stud from day 1 of his NBA career. Not saying Moe won't be successful in the NBA, but there is certainly no guarantee that he will be an elite talent in the NBA to garner Westbrook money after his rookie salary contract runs out.
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This here is wisdom.
The real wisdom would be having wise people around you that were not short sighted and didn't see the big picture for your future.
Think about the difference between making say $5.3mm or making $3.3mm because that is the difference between the 10th pick and the 21st pick in the NBA Draft.
If Moe has one bad workout he could fall to 2nd Rd and not even get guaranteed money.
10th pick actually makes $5.85mill in first three years. I was comparing it to 25 pick and that's $2.9mill over first three years. Double the money to me makes it a no brainer but as Theo points out I'm not of need, never have been. But Mo is certainly not a can't miss prospect. His first contract could very well be the best one he ever gets. Don't understand why his advisors don't see it would be worth the year to make sure it's as large as possible. Most of us will make over $2.9 mill in our careers but I'm betting far fewer will make $5.8 mill. It's a substantial difference. Especially if you're supporting a troop of hangers on (or kids LOL). I'm sure Mo will make a decent living if he goes this year and if he doesn't make it in the NBA will collect a check making ball somewhere for the next 10 years. But a lottery contract helps set you up for life.
UCLA had two klids go early last year - Tyler Honeycutt (soph) and Malcolm Lee (Jr). Both went in the 2nd round. But both ended up with guaranteed contracts - about 3 mill apiece. Tyler with the Kings, Malcolm with the Twolves.
One other thing when figuring $$$$'s - is the value of the 2nd contract. Getting to that 2nd contract one or two years earlier than if you stay in college. Russell Westbrook just signed his 2nd contract - it's for $80 mill over 5 year s- $16 million a year. Under his rookie contract (top 5 pick), he made 4 million this year in his 3rd yer of the contract. Figuring his career has a finite end on matter when it starts, if he had stayed at UCLA another year, that's TWELVE MILLION DOLLARS for the coming year he would have lost, that he could never regain.
I think it's also fair to point out that Russell Westbrook has been a total stud from day 1 of his NBA career. Not saying Moe won't be successful in the NBA, but there is certainly no guarantee that he will be an elite talent in the NBA to garner Westbrook money after his rookie salary contract runs out.
That's really the point I was getting at as well. Omar Cook's second contract wasn't quite up to Westbrook's standards so maybe one more year for a better first contract would have served him better. But in reality no kid is willing to admit they're more like Omar than Russell.
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This here is wisdom.
The real wisdom would be having wise people around you that were not short sighted and didn't see the big picture for your future.
Think about the difference between making say $5.3mm or making $3.3mm because that is the difference between the 10th pick and the 21st pick in the NBA Draft.
If Moe has one bad workout he could fall to 2nd Rd and not even get guaranteed money.
10th pick actually makes $5.85mill in first three years. I was comparing it to 25 pick and that's $2.9mill over first three years. Double the money to me makes it a no brainer but as Theo points out I'm not of need, never have been. But Mo is certainly not a can't miss prospect. His first contract could very well be the best one he ever gets. Don't understand why his advisors don't see it would be worth the year to make sure it's as large as possible. Most of us will make over $2.9 mill in our careers but I'm betting far fewer will make $5.8 mill. It's a substantial difference. Especially if you're supporting a troop of hangers on (or kids LOL). I'm sure Mo will make a decent living if he goes this year and if he doesn't make it in the NBA will collect a check making ball somewhere for the next 10 years. But a lottery contract helps set you up for life.
UCLA had two klids go early last year - Tyler Honeycutt (soph) and Malcolm Lee (Jr). Both went in the 2nd round. But both ended up with guaranteed contracts - about 3 mill apiece. Tyler with the Kings, Malcolm with the Twolves.
One other thing when figuring $$$$'s - is the value of the 2nd contract. Getting to that 2nd contract one or two years earlier than if you stay in college. Russell Westbrook just signed his 2nd contract - it's for $80 mill over 5 year s- $16 million a year. Under his rookie contract (top 5 pick), he made 4 million this year in his 3rd yer of the contract. Figuring his career has a finite end on matter when it starts, if he had stayed at UCLA another year, that's TWELVE MILLION DOLLARS for the coming year he would have lost, that he could never regain.
But cr, there are some current theories that many players bodies will break down by a certain range of NBA games played, regardless of when players come out (much like NFL running backs).
So if guys stay in college another year, they'll only be able to play a certain # of games within a range that their body will allow anyway, so they might as well use another year in school to get stronger and enjoy the limited game schedule and practice more.
I'm not dismissing the opportunity cost in the equation, just offering an alternative view I've read that some stat guys out there have mentioned.
At that point (body break down) you pull a Luke Walton and hang onto scrub minutes for superstar pay for as long as you can. Assuming you're in a multi year deal when the breakdown occurs - which is more than likely.
Walton is making 5.6 million dollars this year. He's scored 12 pts on the season. $466,000 a point. :D
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“@moe_harkless: The best feeling is doing something people say you can't do”
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“@moe_harkless: The best feeling is doing something people say you can't do”
Could be referring to going to the NBA even though most people are saying he shouldnt.
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“@moe_harkless: The best feeling is doing something people say you can't do”
Oh oh. Quick, everyone text, email and/or tweet Moe telling him that he can't come back to SJU! ;)
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“@moe_harkless: The best feeling is doing something people say you can't do”
Could be referring to going to the NBA even though most people are saying he shouldnt.
Could mean he just got a date with Kate Upton as well.
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“@moe_harkless: The best feeling is doing something people say you can't do”
Mo setting up straw-man. No one would tell him he can't, because it's obvious he can. What I'm thinking is he'll be the skinniest kid in the league, and no outside shot to boot. Will he be getting to the rim? Is he a shutdown defender? Is there anything he can do out of the gate for an NBA team? I would hope Mo would not take any questions about his game as an insult.
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There is ONE person telling Moe to go to the NBA and he is doing it for his own reasons. Everyone thinks he is a good guy and loves following him on Twitter.
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There is ONE person telling Moe to go to the NBA and he is doing it for his own reasons. Everyone thinks he is a good guy and loves following him on Twitter.
Wonder who that could be?...
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jim boheim?
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Not to sound like an old record, but I hope Moe does what is best for him. Whether that's staying for another year at St. John's or jumping to the NBA, Moe and only Moe needs to be comfortable with the decision. The money will be waiting for him whether he chooses to leave this year, next year, or the year after that. All that matters if he thinks he is ready for the lifestyle change.
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To all saying they understand doing this for the money if his family needs it, I hear you, but supposedly his mother wants him to stay. If your mom wants you to stay, then in my opinion, throw the "need the money immediately" argument out the window. If she's not being shortsighted, why should he - he's got room and board and food paid for by school.
if his Mom needed the money on the other hand, then I agree completely with Theo et al. But that's not the case here.
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Is Moe 21 yet?
Not that it's a big deal, but from a lifestyle perspective going to the NBA at a young age with grown men can be a bit of shock. Moe seems like a cool, chill dude. i wonder if mentally he's prepared to make that jump. only him and his mom know for sure.
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Chad Ford's latest on Moe has him as the 26th best prospect in the draft:
"Mar 9 Update: Harkless looks like he's entering the draft. Scouts love Harkless and he put on a show in Madison Square Garden on Tuesday. Harkless had 25 points, 11 rebounds and even knocked down a rare 3-pointer. One scout called him a poor man's Michael Kidd-Gilchrist -- which actually is a pretty serious compliment. If he could shoot, he'd be a lottery pick. But as it stands, there's still a good chance he goes somewhere in the mid- to late first round."
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/players/news/_/id/19780/moe-harkless (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/players/news/_/id/19780/moe-harkless)
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Chad Ford's latest on Moe has him as the 26th best prospect in the draft:
"Mar 9 Update: Harkless looks like he's entering the draft. Scouts love Harkless and he put on a show in Madison Square Garden on Tuesday. Harkless had 25 points, 11 rebounds and even knocked down a rare 3-pointer. One scout called him a poor man's Michael Kidd-Gilchrist -- which actually is a pretty serious compliment. If he could shoot, he'd be a lottery pick. But as it stands, there's still a good chance he goes somewhere in the mid- to late first round."
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/players/news/_/id/19780/moe-harkless (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/players/news/_/id/19780/moe-harkless)
#onemoeyear!
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Chard Ford has Moe as the #26 prospect. That tells me that he'll go in the second round. There are a lot of names missing from these NBA draft boards. We are always surprised by the amount of foreign players that just wind up going in the first round. Moe needs to have the right people around him. Omar Cook didn't.
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I wouldn't get your hopes up. He's going to go....just get that feeling. Probably not a good move, but he's not my kid. Hope it works out.
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Chad Ford's latest on Moe has him as the 26th best prospect in the draft:
"Mar 9 Update: Harkless looks like he's entering the draft. Scouts love Harkless and he put on a show in Madison Square Garden on Tuesday. Harkless had 25 points, 11 rebounds and even knocked down a rare 3-pointer. One scout called him a poor man's Michael Kidd-Gilchrist -- which actually is a pretty serious compliment. If he could shoot, he'd be a lottery pick. But as it stands, there's still a good chance he goes somewhere in the mid- to late first round."
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/players/news/_/id/19780/moe-harkless (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/players/news/_/id/19780/moe-harkless)
Chad Ford had Nuri at #40-nuff said. This comment pertains to Ford not Mo.
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Would Roycce White get drafted ahead of Moe?
Man there are a lot of 3/4's in this draft.
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Would Roycce White get drafted ahead of Moe?
Man there are a lot of 3/4's in this draft.
I think so. Royce is a beast.
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Would Roycce White get drafted ahead of Moe?
Man there are a lot of 3/4's in this draft.
I think so has less potential than moe but more polished and more of a definitive position. Moe dosent have that 1 skill that pops right out yet he's just a heaping pile of potential in so many different areas. Royce however has an unbelievable motor that never stops.
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Is Moe 21 yet?
Not that it's a big deal, but from a lifestyle perspective going to the NBA at a young age with grown men can be a bit of shock. Moe seems like a cool, chill dude. i wonder if mentally he's prepared to make that jump. only him and his mom know for sure.
I don't even know if Moe is 19 yet
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Would Roycce White get drafted ahead of Moe?
Man there are a lot of 3/4's in this draft.
I think so has less potential than moe but more polished and more of a definitive position. Moe dosent have that 1 skill that pops right out yet he's just a heaping pile of potential in so many different areas. Royce however has an unbelievable motor that never stops.
Agree that Moe probably has more upside, but Royce can really handle and pass for a guy at 270 and as you mentioned, his motor is great. He's got an NBA ready body and is ready to play. I really think Moe would benefit a lot in his draft position and his game with 1 more year. That's up to him of course and I wish him the best no matter what. Would be fun to see him back with this group.
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If I were Mo, I'd want until after the tourney ends before deciding what to do (forget when the deadline is, so that may not be possible). Over the years, we have seen many a player's stock go up by virtue of having a big-time tournament and producing in front of scouts. It would be sad to see this great kid commit prematurely, only to have his stock drop him into the second round. He'll able to play the 3/4 exclusively next year with Sampson, Gift, and the 1 or 2 bigs on board everyone seems to think we'll get.
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Forgive me if this has been posted. I'm on phone and haven't read through thread on phone. He's officially gone, will find out officially tomorrow. Some inside program don't agree with the decision and think 1 more yr. Like a lot of fans think he will cost himself money.
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well not much we can do but wish him the best. Hope he goes high to mid 1st round. Either way I appreciate him being the 1st one to commit to us.
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well not much we can do but wish him the best. Hope he goes high to mid 1st round. Either way I appreciate him being the 1st one to commit to us.
Agreed, either way wish him luck
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I think Moe really should return one year to improve his draft status, body and skills but good luck to him either way. He got the ball rolling. I happen to think we'll be fine without him as well. I expect Garrett and Pointer to improve and now we add Jakarr and hopefully another player or two on the wing. We'll lose Moe but gain 6 players which is a net win for our depth and program overall. No more lean times ahead, and Lavin can start to cherry-pick top notch kids a bit instead of hauling in massive classes.
In the end, Moe playing in the NBA is VERY good for SJU, Lavin and our recruiting efforts. It's a win no matter what and should pay huge dividends on the recruiting trail and start having us represent in th pros after quite a drought. Lavin always intended on recruiting "future pros" and we're seeing that take place.
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I think Moe really should return one year to improve his draft status, body and skills but good luck to him either way. He got the ball rolling. I happen to think we'll be fine without him as well. I expect Garrett and Pointer to improve and now we add Jakarr and hopefully another player or two on the wing. We'll lose Moe but gain 6 players which is a net win for our depth and program overall. No more lean times ahead, and Lavin can start to cherry-pick top notch kids a bit instead of hauling in massive classes.
In the end, Moe playing in the NBA is VERY good for SJU, Lavin and our recruiting efforts. It's a win no matter what and should pay huge dividends on the recruiting trail and start having us represent in th pros after quite a drought. Lavin always intended on recruiting "future pros" and we're seeing that take place.
I agree that Mo playing in the NBA is good for us... to an extent.
My concern is how much burn Mo will actually get in the league. He's light in the ass, weak, and needs work on his shot. I am pulling for him to be a stud, but I'd be lying if I said I expect him to make an instant impact somewhere. Hopefully, he will develop his game and be a fixture in the league for years to come.
I still think he should have come back, but... it's his life, his choice. in the ned, he'll live with his decisions.
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Actually the lower Moe goes the better for his future getting on a team like Boston or the Spurs for example for his development. I wish him the very best with whatever decision he makes. It would have been fun to see him and Sampson play on the court together but it's definitely a win-win for St Johns either way. I just want Moe to have a nice long productive NBA career.
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I am not just saying this because I want Moe to come back but he just isn't ready for the NBA I dont think. He is still very skinny and could really benefit from bulking up because people his height in the NBA are going to have 20 lbs of muscle on him. He has a ton of work to do on his shot. He has a decent mid range game but he struggled to hit 3's at this level this year. If he comes back and works on his shot and bulks up he would benefit a ton from it. His body and skill set I don't think are ready to be an NBA player. If a team picks him in the first round it will be as a project and he risks falling into the 2nd round.
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Tea leaves clear. Good luck Moe & thanks for being that big first recruit that got us going!
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I wish him nothing but the best. Hopefully he is the first , in a long line of Johnnies to go to the league under the Lavin regime.
He's grabbing the money. I would do the same most likely. Its way too easy to sit back and second guess this decision. I think he'll be picked between 20-30 in the upcoming draft. A team like Boston would be great. He can learn from Paul Pierce for a few years until it's his turn.
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I wish him nothing but the best. Hopefully he is the first , in a long line of Johnnies to go to the league under the Lavin regime.
He's grabbing the money. I would do the same most likely. Its way too easy to sit back and second guess this decision. I think he'll be picked between 20-30 in the upcoming draft. A team like Boston would be great. He can learn from Paul Pierce for a few years until it's his turn.
I wish Moe all the best but I so hope he doesn't get drafted by Boston. You must not be a true NY fan if you would ever wish that upon a fellow NYer (half kidding but seriously F*ck Boston). I will root for Moe as long as he plays for any team other than Boston (if he plays for boston, I will root for him to play great, but lose every game)
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I wish him nothing but the best. Hopefully he is the first , in a long line of Johnnies to go to the league under the Lavin regime.
He's grabbing the money. I would do the same most likely. Its way too easy to sit back and second guess this decision. I think he'll be picked between 20-30 in the upcoming draft. A team like Boston would be great. He can learn from Paul Pierce for a few years until it's his turn.
I wish Moe all the best but I so hope he doesn't get drafted by Boston. You must not be a true NY fan if you would ever wish that upon a fellow NYer (half kidding but seriously F*ck Boston). I will root for Moe as long as he plays for any team other than Boston (if he plays for boston, I will root for him to play great, but lose every game)
Lol... i was speaking from a purely best case for Moe bball future.No love for Boston here. I do think Doc is a great coach. I was thinking of aging SF that Moe could learn from and PP was the first to cross my mind. I figure Boston would be picking in the range where Moe may be drafted.
I'm a NY Knicks fan, but Boston ( at least in hoops) doesn't bother as much as football or baseball. I hate Garnett with a passion though... ;)
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I wish him nothing but the best. Hopefully he is the first , in a long line of Johnnies to go to the league under the Lavin regime.
He's grabbing the money. I would do the same most likely. Its way too easy to sit back and second guess this decision. I think he'll be picked between 20-30 in the upcoming draft. A team like Boston would be great. He can learn from Paul Pierce for a few years until it's his turn.
I wish Moe all the best but I so hope he doesn't get drafted by Boston. You must not be a true NY fan if you would ever wish that upon a fellow NYer (half kidding but seriously F*ck Boston). I will root for Moe as long as he plays for any team other than Boston (if he plays for boston, I will root for him to play great, but lose every game)
Lol... i was speaking from a purely best case for Moe bball future.No love for Boston here. I do think Doc is a great coach. I was thinking of aging SF that Moe could learn from and PP was the first to cross my mind. I figure Boston would be picking in the range where Moe may be drafted.
I'm a NY Knicks fan, but Boston ( at least in hoops) doesn't bother as much as football or baseball. I hate Garnett with a passion though... ;)
My hatred for boston is a blind hatred, it extends to bball, football and baseball. I wouldn't root for a boston team if they were playing against a team of murders lol I also hate Garnett with a passion, there is a special place in hell for people that make jokes about cancer. But I agree with you in premise, I hope Moe walks into a great situation.
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Actually the lower Moe goes the better for his future getting on a team like Boston or the Spurs for example for his development. I wish him the very best with whatever decision he makes. It would have been fun to see him and Sampson play on the court together but it's definitely a win-win for St Johns either way. I just want Moe to have a nice long productive NBA career.
Speaking of teams drafting in the lower half of the 1st round; twice this year I saw lakers gm Mitch Kupcheck at one of our games and both times his notebook was open to Moe all game.
And the first time was the CvC; well before Moe exploded onto the scene.
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Has there been an offical announcement or is this all based on what people are hearing?
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Reasonable guess is this week.
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Lakers dont have a pick. Id bet on boston w 2 picks in that range and ainge needing to put horses around rondo.
Actually the lower Moe goes the better for his future getting on a team like Boston or the Spurs for example for his development. I wish him the very best with whatever decision he makes. It would have been fun to see him and Sampson play on the court together but it's definitely a win-win for St Johns either way. I just want Moe to have a nice long productive NBA career.
Speaking of teams drafting in the lower half of the 1st round; twice this year I saw lakers gm Mitch Kupcheck at one of our games and both times his notebook was open to Moe all game.
And the first time was the CvC; well before Moe exploded onto the scene.
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Lakers dont have a pick. Id bet on boston w 2 picks in that range and ainge needing to put horses around rondo.
Actually the lower Moe goes the better for his future getting on a team like Boston or the Spurs for example for his development. I wish him the very best with whatever decision he makes. It would have been fun to see him and Sampson play on the court together but it's definitely a win-win for St Johns either way. I just want Moe to have a nice long productive NBA career.
Speaking of teams drafting in the lower half of the 1st round; twice this year I saw lakers gm Mitch Kupcheck at one of our games and both times his notebook was open to Moe all game.
And the first time was the CvC; well before Moe exploded onto the scene.
Wouldn't Boston want a kid like Kris Joesph that is ready to compete from day one? Ow much more time will they have with Pierce or Garnett paying at a high level. Moe won't be ready for a few years.
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Lakers dont have a pick. Id bet on boston w 2 picks in that range and ainge needing to put horses around rondo.
Actually the lower Moe goes the better for his future getting on a team like Boston or the Spurs for example for his development. I wish him the very best with whatever decision he makes. It would have been fun to see him and Sampson play on the court together but it's definitely a win-win for St Johns either way. I just want Moe to have a nice long productive NBA career.
Speaking of teams drafting in the lower half of the 1st round; twice this year I saw lakers gm Mitch Kupcheck at one of our games and both times his notebook was open to Moe all game.
And the first time was the CvC; well before Moe exploded onto the scene.
Wouldn't Boston want a kid like Kris Joesph that is ready to compete from day one? Ow much more time will they have with Pierce or Garnett paying at a high level. Moe won't be ready for a few years.
Garnett is a UFA.
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On his "Who's in Who's Out list for underclassmen" Chad Ford lists Moe as a player who has officially declared for the draft but not yet hired an agent.
It's an INsider article but here's the gist..
IN THE DRAFT
Players who officially have declared for the 2012 NBA draft
* To preserve eligibility, player has not hired an agent
Moe Harkless, F, Fr., St. John's*
Harkless may not have been pegged as a one-and-done prospect coming out of high school, but he was among the most productive freshmen in college basketball this year. His energy level and athleticism should translate to the pros immediately. He needs a better jumper, but he's likely a mid-to-late first-round pick.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/page/InOut-2012/nba-draft-list (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/page/InOut-2012/nba-draft-list)
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What does to preserve eligiblity he has not hired an agent mean? I thaught once you declare he looses eligibility . Is he just testing the water?
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What does to preserve eligiblity he has not hired an agent mean? I thaught once you declare he looses eligibility . Is he just testing the water?
I have no idea either. From everything I've heard the new rule makes you decide once. No in-and out. So it seems pointless to not hire an agent.
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What does to preserve eligiblity he has not hired an agent mean? I thaught once you declare he looses eligibility . Is he just testing the water?
He has until April 10th I beleive to come back. The date used to be in June or something. So long as he doesnt hire an agent the door is open.
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If he came back for one more year he'd get himself in the lottery
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If he came back for one more year he'd get himself in the lottery
Losing Moe would be awful for both him and us. What is wrong with making an impact at the college level and at the same time preparing yourself for a career in basketball? The NBA doesn't promote the dozens of kids who wrongfully think they're ready and wind up ignored and overlooked for whatever reason.
It goes deeper than just our players. Kid have been leaving too soon for over 2 decades. The risk is not worth the reward. I saw Lavin brought Harkless to the broadcast both for CBS. Kenny Smith and Charles Barkley could have gotten hurt too. How long did they stay in college?
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And he's gone. Awful decision. His advisors should be held accountable. I thought SJ was through with these paper bag advisors.
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“@DanielJMartin_: Moe Harkless and Steve Lavin holding a press conference Monday at 2pm at MSG. Assuming it's NBA-related, obviously. #STJbb”
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The Fresh Four?
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Good luck in the NBA Moe. It's been awesome watching him play this year and while we selfishly want him to stay and help our team next year, if this is his decision then I am behind it 100%. It's tough to turn down that type of money. Hopefully he has a nice, long NBA career.
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Good luck in the NBA Moe. It's been awesome watching him play this year and while we selfishly want him to stay and help our team next year, if this is his decision then I am behind it 100%. It's tough to turn down that type of money. Hopefully he has a nice, long NBA career.
Are you behind it of he doesn't get drafted in the first round?
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Good luck in the NBA Moe. It's been awesome watching him play this year and while we selfishly want him to stay and help our team next year, if this is his decision then I am behind it 100%. It's tough to turn down that type of money. Hopefully he has a nice, long NBA career.
Are you behind it of he doesn't get drafted in the first round?
Would you be behind a decision to stay if in less minutes next year his stats slipped and he actually became a 2nd rounder or if he suffered a bad injury?
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Good luck in the NBA Moe. It's been awesome watching him play this year and while we selfishly want him to stay and help our team next year, if this is his decision then I am behind it 100%. It's tough to turn down that type of money. Hopefully he has a nice, long NBA career.
Are you behind it of he doesn't get drafted in the first round?
I wish he stayed, but it sounds like he's going to be a mid-first round pick. If that's the case, he made the right call. If not?
Neither decision is a "bad" one. Truth is that next year isn't going to make or break Moe's career; whether he played it in college or the NBA.
It's the 5 seasons after this that will be telling for him.
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If he came back for one more year he'd get himself in the lottery
Losing Moe would be awful for both him and us. What is wrong with making an impact at the college level and at the same time preparing yourself for a career in basketball? The NBA doesn't promote the dozens of kids who wrongfully think they're ready and wind up ignored and overlooked for whatever reason.
It goes deeper than just our players. Kid have been leaving too soon for over 2 decades. The risk is not worth the reward. I saw Lavin brought Harkless to the broadcast both for CBS. Kenny Smith and Charles Barkley could have gotten hurt too. How long did they stay in college?
It's not as good for Moe as he thinks. I think Nate Blue steering him the wrong way on this one. Nate goes as far as to call a college coach with almost 1000 wins out as secondly that doesn't know anything about this stuff. I wish Moe luck. It's good for SJU having him in the league. He's not ready yet but it's his choice. I don't think SJU will be decimated by this at all. It will hurt for sure because Moe is real good. We still will only be losing one player and potentially gaining 6 players including a few real good ones. Agree that both Moe and SJU better off if Moe returned for one more.
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Maybe he's having the press conference to announce he just saved a lot of $ by switching to Geico
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Good luck in the NBA Moe. It's been awesome watching him play this year and while we selfishly want him to stay and help our team next year, if this is his decision then I am behind it 100%. It's tough to turn down that type of money. Hopefully he has a nice, long NBA career.
Are you behind it of he doesn't get drafted in the first round?
Would you be behind a decision to stay if in less minutes next year his stats slipped and he actually became a 2nd rounder or if he suffered a bad injury?
Which happens more often?
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Good luck Moe!
BTW, Lavin getting more TV exposure this week than the President.
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Good luck in the NBA Moe. It's been awesome watching him play this year and while we selfishly want him to stay and help our team next year, if this is his decision then I am behind it 100%. It's tough to turn down that type of money. Hopefully he has a nice, long NBA career.
Are you behind it of he doesn't get drafted in the first round?
I wish he stayed, but it sounds like he's going to be a mid-first round pick. If that's the case, he made the right call. If
not?
Neither decision is a "bad" one. Truth is that next year isn't going to make or break Moe's career; whether he played it in college or the NBA.
It's the 5 seasons after this that will be telling for him.
I don't understand how he is in any way an NBA player. I wish him all the best, but I expect to see him in the NBDL next year.
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BUT his mom won't have to work her tail off to stay above water.
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All signs point to him leaving but it would be pretty great press if Moe announced at the Garden that he was coming.
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Awful decision. Who the hell is advising the kid? He would be almost a lock to be a lottery pick next year if he played at the same level at St. John's. He may not even get drafted in the 1st round this year.... Mind boggling.
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All signs point to him leaving but it would be pretty great press if Moe announced at the Garden that he was coming.
A pig just flew by your window!
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Good luck in the NBA Moe. It's been awesome watching him play this year and while we selfishly want him to stay and help our team next year, if this is his decision then I am behind it 100%. It's tough to turn down that type of money. Hopefully he has a nice, long NBA career.
Are you behind it of he doesn't get drafted in the first round?
I wish he stayed, but it sounds like he's going to be a mid-first round pick. If that's the case, he made the right call. If
not?
Neither decision is a "bad" one. Truth is that next year isn't going to make or break Moe's career; whether he played it in college or the NBA.
It's the 5 seasons after this that will be telling for him.
I don't understand how he is in any way an NBA player. I wish him all the best, but I expect to see him in the NBDL next year.
You think he's getting cut in camp Poison? Come'on man. Moe might have weaknesses in his game, but that doesn't mean he won't stick around. And teams are going to give him a chance based on his potential. At least for awhile.
Don't forget he's 18. That's REAL young for basketball. Basically teams are probably looking at drafting Moe as they would a HS player a few years ago.
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Awful decision. Who the hell is advising the kid? He would be almost a lock to be a lottery pick next year if he played at the same level at St. John's. He may not even get drafted in the 1st round this year.... Mind boggling.
Where is this idea that he won't be drafted in the first round coming from? Every mock draft out there has him as a first rounder, and every expert or NBA scout quoted has said he's mid to late first round.
Could he slip? Sure. But all the evidence says he's a first rounder. I don't think we're giving Moe, his family, Lavin, and Nate enough credit here... they asked around and took stock of the situation - clearly Moe's stock has risen a lot in the past month. Because in February there was no question he was returning. But scouts are higher on him now. Good for Moe!
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Moe is an NBA player. But I think he could've used another year here to get stronger and develop more. I wish him luck, I'll be rooting for him wherever he goes.
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IF Moe is a top 20 pick this year then this is a good move. It's non of my business what his personal life/finances is like so i'll leave it at that. IMHO I think only 1 or 2 freshman are ready for the NBA every year but unfortunately much more enter. Too many Xavier Henry's, Josh Selby's & Lance Stepehenson's around. I stand my Moe 100% in this decision and will root for him where ever he lands. I trust Moe's, Moe's families & our coaching staffs judgement. I just really hope he doesn't slip and fall during the draft. Congrats Moe, thank you for believing in St. Johns when no one else did & good luck in the NBA I expect him to have a nice career ahead of him
Oh and FWIW I dont think this move hurts us that much next year. I think Jakarr will come in and fill his void nicely along with improvement from returners & a boost from other new comers. Us fans shouldn't worry about next years team
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BUT his mom won't have to work her tail off to stay above water.
If his mom has worked at Applebee's for several years, what's one more year? I want Harkless to go pro, but I want him to make it. Now, who knows? He could slip into the 2nd round, and then we'll never hear from him again. Except on Twitter.
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BUT his mom won't have to work her tail off to stay above water.
If his mom has worked at Applebee's for several years, what's one more year? I want Harkless to go pro, but I want him to make it. Now, who knows? He could slip into the 2nd round, and then we'll never hear from him again. Except on Twitter.
Lavin and Nate have a better sense of where he goes than you and I. No way he is second round pick.
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Moe's not a second round pick just based on his potential. A lot of the draft is based on potential, which is why you see so many freshman and guys with Moe's body type and skill set are rare.
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I agree, family finances aside, he is not ready for the NBA. I more year in college would help more than people think I believe. In all honestly, Anthony Davis is the only freshman ready for the NBA this year. Even Drummond and all the potential he may have is not currently an NBA caliber player. He sucked in the BE, he will be eaten alive in the NBA. Mid to late first round pick is great but spending a year or more in the D league when you could be competing for a high caliber NCAA team in a high caliber conf just doesnt make sense, again this is all money aside which is a big piece of the equation to take out.
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I'm not saying he's not a first round pick, but it's very possible he can slip into the 2nd round. A lot can happen from now until June. If he stayed and played just as well next year he's a clear lock as a lottery pick.
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Funniest thing is, all concerns on this board, email, twitter, and speaking to various general managers and college coaches other then jim boheim were all taken into account. Id like to thank everybody for your wishes and dialogue that was seriously brought to moe and lavin and others intention.
The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol
But seriously dont think every option wasnt factored. Im a little smarter then most think. Thats what dumb people say though right lol. Anyway, have a good one ya. Dave hit me up!
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My spelling is horrible "attention" Not intention. Smh
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Funniest thing is, all concerns on this board, email, twitter, and speaking to various general managers and college coaches other then jim boheim were all taken into account. Id like to thank everybody for your wishes and dialogue that was seriously brought to moe and lavin and others intention.
The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol
But seriously dont think every option wasnt factored. Im a little smarter then most think. Thats what dumb people say though right lol. Anyway, have a good one ya. Dave hit me up!
What does Jim Boeheim know about getting players to the league?
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Hes got a few... Lol i think johnny flynn, carmelo, warrick, and of course plenty of others. Hes just not a pleasant guy to reccomend a player to. I think seriously its because i didnt like bernie fine..
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I guess Lenn Robbins is a genius after all.... ;)
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Hes got a few... Lol i think johnny flynn, carmelo, warrick, and of course plenty of others. Hes just not a pleasant guy to reccomend a player to. I think seriously its because i didnt like bernie fine..
Good instincts
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When is Moe's younger brother going to eligible to come to SJU ? lol
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Hes got a few... Lol i think johnny flynn, carmelo, warrick, and of course plenty of others. Hes just not a pleasant guy to reccomend a player to. I think seriously its because i didnt like bernie fine..
Good instincts
Very good instincts! Good luck to Moe and thanks to Nate for all his help with all things St. John's
I think we'll have another 1st rounder next year, then the year after, and the year after....
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Lavin had Phil Greene in to the CBS studio today also...fyi. Hope he's not going pro also! ;)
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If it's true that Moe Harkless is leaving for the draft, I'd first like to thank him for coming to St. John's and giving us his all this season. I'd also like to wish him all the luck in the world and I hope he becomes an absolute star at the next level.
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Remember Moe opened the gates for the rest. He started it.
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The sanity exhibited by the vast majority of SJ posters simply continues to blow my mind.....
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Funniest thing is, all concerns on this board, email, twitter, and speaking to various general managers and college coaches other then jim boheim were all taken into account. Id like to thank everybody for your wishes and dialogue that was seriously brought to moe and lavin and others intention.
The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol
But seriously dont think every option wasnt factored. Im a little smarter then most think. Thats what dumb people say though right lol. Anyway, have a good one ya. Dave hit me up!
Good to hear from you. Whatever Moe decides, SJU fans are behind him 100% Everybody has opinions. Don't take any on this board too seriously. It's a forum for opinions. We are SJU fans and would love to see Moe stay but all of us want to see Moe succeed in the NBA. Main message is thwt we all love SJU and want to see Moe succeed. Best of luck to the young man.
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Funniest thing is, all concerns on this board, email, twitter, and speaking to various general managers and college coaches other then jim boheim were all taken into account. Id like to thank everybody for your wishes and dialogue that was seriously brought to moe and lavin and others intention.
The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol
But seriously dont think every option wasnt factored. Im a little smarter then most think. Thats what dumb people say though right lol. Anyway, have a good one ya. Dave hit me up!
Good to hear from you. Whatever Moe decides, SJU fans are behind him 100% Everybody has opinions. Don't take any on this board too seriously. It's a forum for opinions. We are SJU fans and would love to see Moe stay but all of us want to see Moe succeed in the NBA. Main message is thwt we all love SJU and want to see Moe succeed. Best of luck.
Agree 100%.
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Hes got a few... Lol i think johnny flynn, carmelo, warrick, and of course plenty of others. Hes just not a pleasant guy to reccomend a player to. I think seriously its because i didnt like bernie fine..
What I'm suggesting is that Harkless would be wise to listen to someone who has put more players in the league than anyone who is advising him to leave. These leaches are clearly only out for themselves and have NEVER done right by any SJ player in regards to leaving early.
I don't understand why you'd even bring up Bernie Fine? He is irrelevant in this discussion. It makes just as much sense to bring up Abe Keita, Grady Reynolds and Elijah Ingram. Boeheim was trying to help Harkless. I wish Moe success, but he should have listened to Boeheim.
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The times they are achangin.
Nowadays this is good for SJU's reputation among stellar recruits.
Not so certain it will be all that good for Moe.
Nonetheless we are all grateful to him for a job well done under trying conditions.
Good luck Moe!
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Remember Moe opened the gates for the rest. He started it.
That is 100% true, but why risk your entire career? What he saw in Lexington this year he'll see in the league. I saw nothing that tells me he's ready. He's a promising freshman. The NBA is insane.
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If it's true that Moe Harkless is leaving for the draft, I'd first like to thank him for coming to St. John's and giving us his all this season. I'd also like to wish him all the luck in the world and I hope he becomes an absolute star at the next level.
My thoughts exactly. I'm disappointed we won't get to see him in a St. Johns uniform again but wish him all the best.
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Funniest thing is, all concerns on this board, email, twitter, and speaking to various general managers and college coaches other then jim boheim were all taken into account. Id like to thank everybody for your wishes and dialogue that was seriously brought to moe and lavin and others intention.
The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol
But seriously dont think every option wasnt factored. Im a little smarter then most think. Thats what dumb people say though right lol. Anyway, have a good one ya. Dave hit me up!
Good to hear from you. Whatever Moe decides, SJU fans are behind him 100% Everybody has opinions. Don't take any on this board too seriously. It's a forum for opinions. We are SJU fans and would love to see Moe stay but all of us want to see Moe succeed in the NBA. Main message is thwt we all love SJU and want to see Moe succeed. Best of luck to the young man.
Great post. +100 Couldn't agree more, great message to give.
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Remember Moe opened the gates for the rest. He started it.
That is 100% true, but why risk your entire career? What he saw in Lexington this year he'll see in the league. I saw nothing that tells me he's ready. He's a promising freshman. The NBA is insane.
He's not risking his NBA career. I understand your logic - that a high pick leads to more job security and more patience from the front office. You're right about that.
But the bottom line is guys like Omar and Barkley, and other early entries didn't not make it in the NBA because they left early... they didn't make it because they weren't good enough. As much as I like them, let's call a spade a spade here.
You might have a longer leash and more cushion if you're a high pick; but coming out early doesn't ruin careers. If you have the talent you'll find your place in the league.
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Remember Moe opened the gates for the rest. He started it.
That is 100% true, but why risk your entire career? What he saw in Lexington this year he'll see in the league. I saw nothing that tells me he's ready. He's a promising freshman. The NBA is insane.
He's not risking his NBA career. I understand your logic - that a high pick leads to more job security and more patience from the front office. You're right about that.
But the bottom line is guys like Omar and Barkley, and other early entries didn't not make it in the NBA because they left
early... they didn't make it because they weren't good enough. As much as I like them, let's call a spade a spade here.
You might have a longer leash and more cushion if you're a high pick; but coming out early doesn't ruin careers. If you have the talent you'll find your place in the league.
He's got talent, but no way does he have more talent than Omar Cook does.
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He should stay and work on his strength and perimeter game, I'm saying that because I think that whats best for Moe. Good luck to him though I hope whatever team picks him is willing to be patient and let him develop. Only he can decides whats best for him and his family and he must have good reasons for leaving, good luck Mo.
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Best of luck to Moe. We're all disappointed that you won't be helping the team next year, but you were first to commit and first to the NBA under Coach Lavin and his staff, and for that, we should all be thankful.
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Remember Moe opened the gates for the rest. He started it.
That is 100% true, but why risk your entire career? What he saw in Lexington this year he'll see in the league. I saw nothing that tells me he's ready. He's a promising freshman. The NBA is insane.
He's not risking his NBA career. I understand your logic - that a high pick leads to more job security and more patience from the front office. You're right about that.
But the bottom line is guys like Omar and Barkley, and other early entries didn't not make it in the NBA because they left
early... they didn't make it because they weren't good enough. As much as I like them, let's call a spade a spade here.
You might have a longer leash and more cushion if you're a high pick; but coming out early doesn't ruin careers. If you have the talent you'll find your place in the league.
He's got talent, but no way does he have more talent than Omar Cook does.
That's debatable at best. Omar was a wizard seeing the floor, but he couldn't shoot. But regardless, even with Omar coming out a year early, if he had the skills that the NBA wants from a pg then he would've stuck around. But he was 6'1 and a poor shooter.
I'm not saying Moe's going to make it, but if he doesn't it won't be because he came out as a freshmen.
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Harkless is a much better pro prospect than Omar Cook and thats all that matters.
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Cok couldn't shoot? What was his 3 point shooting % at St.John's?
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Cok couldn't shoot? What was his 3 point shooting % at St.John's?
31%
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Cok couldn't shoot? What was his 3 point shooting % at St.John's?
.309 Doesn't prove either of us right haha. But I didn't mean to make this a Cook v Moe thing, just saying that if Moe is good enough he'll stick in the league. Regardless of if he came out this year or next.
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Cok couldn't shoot? What was his 3 point shooting % at St.John's?
.309 Doesn't prove either of us right haha. But I didn't mean to make this a Cook v Moe thing, just saying that if Moe is good enough he'll stick in the league. Regardless of if he came out this year or next.
Comparing Omar and Harkless makes no sense. Unless you are Iverson or Kyrie Irving, no one under 6'2" should ever leave after one or two years.
Harkless will be fine. He'll make more money than any of us and we'll still be here bitching about something else....
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Yo N, it's BR. Hit me up on the IM post haste.
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While all of us will miss Moe next year, it is his decision and I support it. I like the idea of him making an anouncement in MSG with his coach; it shows class rather than just a blurb in the paper/a tweet/a mention in a blog. I agree with others who note that this shows other top level recruits that coach can make it happen. Coach was working for ESPN for 7 years so HSer's have no idea of his ability to elevate their game to make it to the big leagues. Now they will see results and follow in Moe's footsteps.
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I wish Mo the best, but am not about to issue him a hallow. His actions including his decommitting from Uconn were for his own benefit. And I don't credit him with any contribution to the recruiting of the class of 2011. I doubt if Harrison in Texas, Sampson in Ohio, Pointer in Detroit (North Carolina ) or the two Californian had any idea who he was or in any way were influence to sign on because of Mo.
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I wish Mo the best, but am not about to issue him a hallow. His actions including his decommitting from Uconn were for his own benefit. And I don't credit him with any contribution to the recruiting of the class of 2011. I doubt if Harrison in Texas, Sampson in Ohio, Pointer in Detroit (North Carolina ) or the two Californian had any idea who he was or in any way were influence to sign on because of Mo.
This here is the ignorance.
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Mo got the ball rolling. No doubt he had a major impact on other recruits following. Our biggest NYC recruit since Cook.
Loved watching Mo play. Class act on and off the court. Seems like a great kid. Wish him nothing but the best with his decision. Hanging on to the slight thread of hope that he comes back but, if not, he'll represent the program well at the next level, and I truly hope his decision ends up being the correct one.
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I wish Mo the best, but am not about to issue him a hallow. His actions including his decommitting from Uconn were for his own benefit. And I don't credit him with any contribution to the recruiting of the class of 2011. I doubt if Harrison in Texas, Sampson in Ohio, Pointer in Detroit (North Carolina ) or the two Californian had any idea who he was or in any way were influence to sign on because of Mo.
You have no idea why he decommitted from Uconn.
He was the first recruit before Lavin did anything and paved the way for others.
Seriously one of the most head scratching posts I've ever read.
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I wish Mo the best, but am not about to issue him a hallow. His actions including his decommitting from Uconn were for his own benefit. And I don't credit him with any contribution to the recruiting of the class of 2011. I doubt if Harrison in Texas, Sampson in Ohio, Pointer in Detroit (North Carolina ) or the two Californian had any idea who he was or in any way were influence to sign on because of Mo.
Hiring Coach Lavin and Moe Harkless committing to St. John's, will go down in history as the most important reason for our program's turnaround. Moe deserves our unconditional support.
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I wish Mo the best, but am not about to issue him a hallow. His actions including his decommitting from Uconn were for his own benefit. And I don't credit him with any contribution to the recruiting of the class of 2011. I doubt if Harrison in Texas, Sampson in Ohio, Pointer in Detroit (North Carolina ) or the two Californian had any idea who he was or in any way were influence to sign on because of Mo.
This here is the ignorance.
+1 Smh
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I wish Mo the best, but am not about to issue him a hallow. His actions including his decommitting from Uconn were for his own benefit. And I don't credit him with any contribution to the recruiting of the class of 2011. I doubt if Harrison in Texas, Sampson in Ohio, Pointer in Detroit (North Carolina ) or the two Californian had any idea who he was or in any way were influence to sign on because of Mo.
Me thinks someone still has a St Paddys buzz on to think this stuff
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I wish Mo the best, but am not about to issue him a hallow. His actions including his decommitting from Uconn were for his own benefit. And I don't credit him with any contribution to the recruiting of the class of 2011. I doubt if Harrison in Texas, Sampson in Ohio, Pointer in Detroit (North Carolina ) or the two Californian had any idea who he was or in any way were influence to sign on because of Mo.
He was the first recruit that we signed under Lavin. He absolutely changed our recruiting presence not just in NY, but nationally. To say that kids like Harrison weren't swayed by his choice to come here is ridiculous. They all knew who he was. It's not 1985. There's something called summer league and there's also something called the Internet
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I wish Mo the best, but am not about to issue him a hallow. His actions including his decommitting from Uconn were for his own benefit. And I don't credit him with any contribution to the recruiting of the class of 2011. I doubt if Harrison in Texas, Sampson in Ohio, Pointer in Detroit (North Carolina ) or the two Californian had any idea who he was or in any way were influence to sign on because of Mo.
Me thinks someone still has a St Paddys buzz on to think this stuff
Glad I qualified my earlier post to the sanity of MOST! :)
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I wish Mo the best, but am not about to issue him a hallow. His actions including his decommitting from Uconn were for his own benefit. And I don't credit him with any contribution to the recruiting of the class of 2011. I doubt if Harrison in Texas, Sampson in Ohio, Pointer in Detroit (North Carolina ) or the two Californian had any idea who he was or in any way were influence to sign on because of Mo.
Worst Post of 2012. We won't even take other nominees this wins it.
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I wish Mo the best, but am not about to issue him a hallow. His actions including his decommitting from Uconn were for his own benefit. And I don't credit him with any contribution to the recruiting of the class of 2011. I doubt if Harrison in Texas, Sampson in Ohio, Pointer in Detroit (North Carolina ) or the two Californian had any idea who he was or in any way were influence to sign on because of Mo.
Worst Post of 2012. We won't even take other nominees this wins it.
Call it worst of 2011 too
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Remember Moe opened the gates for the rest. He started it.
That is 100% true, but why risk your entire career? What he saw in Lexington this year he'll see in the league. I saw nothing that tells me he's ready. He's a promising freshman. The NBA is insane.
He's not risking his NBA career. I understand your logic - that a high pick leads to more job security and more patience from the front office. You're right about that.
But the bottom line is guys like Omar and Barkley, and other early entries didn't not make it in the NBA because they left
early... they didn't make it because they weren't good enough. As much as I like them, let's call a spade a spade here.
You might have a longer leash and more cushion if you're a high pick; but coming out early doesn't ruin careers. If you have the talent you'll find your place in the league.
He's got talent, but no way does he have more talent than Omar Cook does.
There's no worth arguing in this because I don't think you understand how the NBA drafts and values it's prospects. It is far, FAR harder to be a PG and come out as an underclassman. As someone who is 6'8" and is a wing forward, it is FARRRRRR different than an Omar Cook situation.
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Theo, I understand completely. And I truly hope that Moe gets taken and makes it big. I love that guy. You are right that the NBA is littered with with point guards. It is also littered with swingmen who don't shoot lights out. And Moe doesn't. His handle is weak, and his strength is well below that of an NBA player. There are a lot intelligent reasons to return. I don't think you can point to just one stat or two with Moe, because there are so many areas where he needs improvement.
The NBA doesn't care what happens to him if by some chance it doesn't work. That said I don't think it is unreasonable to call out anyone telling him to leave. It's a gigantic risk. He's a very good player, but not a great player.
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Funniest thing is, all concerns on this board, email, twitter, and speaking to various general managers and college coaches other then jim boheim were all taken into account. Id like to thank everybody for your wishes and dialogue that was seriously brought to moe and lavin and others intention.
The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol
But seriously dont think every option wasnt factored. Im a little smarter then most think. Thats what dumb people say though right lol. Anyway, have a good one ya. Dave hit me up!
We wish Moe nothing but the best, his NBA jersey's are going to be hot, Can't wait until he comes to LA with his team to watch
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Realscout, thanks for the message. Regardless of everyone's views on whether moe should stay or go, one thing is constant, we all LOVE Moe and what he did for st johns getting us back on the map, and will be rooting hard for him in the NBA, our first legit St John's rep in the Association since Ron/Metta.
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i know i'm dreaming, but it'd be awesome for Moe to end up with Mark Jackson. I think Mark would take good care of him.
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Realscout, thanks for the message. Regardless of everyone's views on whether moe should stay or go, one thing is constant, we all LOVE Moe and what he did for st johns getting us back on the map, and will be rooting hard for him in the NBA, our first legit St John's rep in the Association since Ron/Metta.
It's about time that we start a good alumni group in NBA, Ron has been at it alone for way too long.
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Theo, I understand completely. And I truly hope that Moe gets taken and makes it big. I love that guy. You are right that the NBA is littered with with point guards. It is also littered with swingmen who don't shoot lights out. And Moe doesn't. His handle is weak, and his strength is well below that of an NBA player.
You say his strength isn't good enough right now. Do NBA teams not have weight rooms and strength coaches?? You also say he doesn't shoot lights out. Do NBA teams not have strength coaches and can NBA players not hire shot doctors to work with them?? Same thing with the comment on his handle.
As I said earlier, some of you guys are acting like college is the ONLY place to get better, when in fact evidence might point the other direction. NCAA rules only allow individual workout time with coaches a few hours per week. Players also have class to go to while in college which takes a few hours per day. Those hours are freed up to do workouts in the NBA, and there aren't those types of restrictions on coaches. In addition, players also have the money to hire personal trainers, nutritionists and shot doctors when they get first round draft pick type money and/or loans before the draft occurs. Moe, as a child of a single mom who works part time at Applebees, probably doesn't currently have all type of money to throw around for training sessions.
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Theo, I understand completely. And I truly hope that Moe gets taken and makes it big. I love that guy. You are right that the NBA is littered with with point guards. It is also littered with swingmen who don't shoot lights out. And Moe doesn't. His handle is weak, and his strength is well below that of an NBA player.
You say his strength isn't good enough right now. Do NBA teams not have weight rooms and strength coaches?? You also say he doesn't shoot lights out. Do NBA teams not have strength coaches and can NBA players not hire shot doctors to work with them?? Same thing with the comment on his handle.
As I said earlier, some of you guys are acting like college is the ONLY place to get better, when in fact evidence might point the other direction. NCAA rules only allow individual workout time with coaches a few hours per week. Players also have class to go to while in college which takes a few hours per day. Those hours are freed up to do workouts in the NBA, and there aren't those types of restrictions on coaches. In addition, players also have the money to hire personal trainers, nutritionists and shot doctors when they get first round draft pick type money and/or loans before the draft occurs. Moe, as a child of a single mom who works part time at Applebees, probably doesn't currently have all type of money to throw around for training sessions.
i don't think we need to know Moe's personal family business the way you've just blasted it out.
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Funniest thing is, all concerns on this board, email, twitter, and speaking to various general managers and college coaches other then jim boheim were all taken into account. Id like to thank everybody for your wishes and dialogue that was seriously brought to moe and lavin and others intention.
The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol
But seriously dont think every option wasnt factored. Im a little smarter then most think. Thats what dumb people say though right lol. Anyway, have a good one ya. Dave hit me up!
We wish Moe nothing but the best, his NBA jersey's are going to be hot, Can't wait until he comes to LA with his team to watch
"The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol" - Realscout
"Many #stjbb fans don't understand the big picture. You'll see. Its all good" - Dave on Twitter Last Night
Anyone have any idea on what these gentlemen are referring to? Can a highly rated recruit be coming?
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We hear about the ones who make it, we don't hear about the ones who don't. Thank the NBA for their cold inhuman approach to their draft. I'm praying Moe becomes a star because he deserves it. The only way this works out for everyone is if that happens.
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Some people/posters are so naive its scary.
The NBA is littered with athletic 6'8 wing players and there are even more who are in the D-League right now.
I wish Moe all the luck and success in the world if he is leaving but this young man is making a mistake to try and enter the league this year.
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I don't think a highly rated recruit coming makes those comments or the decision make any more sense than they would have.
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Theo, I understand completely. And I truly hope that Moe gets taken and makes it big. I love that guy. You are right that the NBA is littered with with point guards. It is also littered with swingmen who don't shoot lights out. And Moe doesn't. His handle is weak, and his strength is well below that of an NBA player.
You say his strength isn't good enough right now. Do NBA teams not have weight rooms and strength coaches?? You also say he doesn't shoot lights out. Do NBA teams not have strength coaches and can NBA players not hire shot doctors to work with them?? Same thing with the comment on his handle.
As I said earlier, some of you guys are acting like college is the ONLY place to get better, when in fact evidence might point the other direction. NCAA rules only allow individual workout time with coaches a few hours per week. Players also have class to go to while in college which takes a few hours per day. Those hours are freed up to do workouts in the NBA, and there aren't those types of restrictions on coaches. In addition, players also have the money to hire personal trainers, nutritionists and shot doctors when they get first round draft pick type money and/or loans before the draft occurs. Moe, as a child of a single mom who works part time at Applebees, probably doesn't currently have all type of money to throw around for training sessions.
These are all excellent points in favor of Moe going pro now. While it's always a gamble to enter the draft, if Moe is relatively sure that he'll go mid to late first round this year, then in his position, I'd be hard pressed to tell him to go back to school for one more year, because no one can guarantee that Moe's stock will be this high or higher next year. For example, if Felipe Lopez declared after his freshman year, he would have likely been a higher draft pick and made more money during his brief NBA career. Lopez himself admitted as much in a 2006 Daily News article:
"The timing was different then," he says. "I had my opportunity, the first year of college. But it was a family decision. I would have had a few more million dollars in the bank. Others did it, came out early. A lot of top picks, they're not complaining about their decisions."
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2006-12-01/sports/18340109_1_rice-high-school-micheal-ray-richardson-felipe-lopez (http://articles.nydailynews.com/2006-12-01/sports/18340109_1_rice-high-school-micheal-ray-richardson-felipe-lopez)
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Funniest thing is, all concerns on this board, email, twitter, and speaking to various general managers and college coaches other then jim boheim were all taken into account. Id like to thank everybody for your wishes and dialogue that was seriously brought to moe and lavin and others intention.
The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol
But seriously dont think every option wasnt factored. Im a little smarter then most think. Thats what dumb people say though right lol. Anyway, have a good one ya. Dave hit me up!
We wish Moe nothing but the best, his NBA jersey's are going to be hot, Can't wait until he comes to LA with his team to watch
"The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol" - Realscout
"Many #stjbb fans don't understand the big picture. You'll see. Its all good" - Dave on Twitter Last Night
Anyone have any idea on what these gentlemen are referring to? Can a highly rated recruit be coming?
Maybe he surprises us all and announces he's coming back...lol. He'd punk everybody... ;D
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Best of luck to Moe!
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For all we know, and we'll know by 2pm, and I'm speculating...but their could be an NBA team in middle of 1st Rd that secretly assured Mo there's NO WAY he'll get past them.
Obviously, Nate and Dave and others know something, but that's my arm chair speculation that may not even be announced today.
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Theo, I understand completely. And I truly hope that Moe gets taken and makes it big. I love that guy. You are right that the NBA is littered with with point guards. It is also littered with swingmen who don't shoot lights out. And Moe doesn't. His handle is weak, and his strength is well below that of an NBA player.
You say his strength isn't good enough right now. Do NBA teams not have weight rooms and strength coaches?? You also say he doesn't shoot lights out. Do NBA teams not have strength coaches and can NBA players not hire shot doctors to work with them?? Same thing with the comment on his handle.
As I said earlier, some of you guys are acting like college is the ONLY place to get better, when in fact evidence might point the other direction. NCAA rules only allow individual workout time with coaches a few hours per week. Players also have class to go to while in college which takes a few hours per day. Those hours are freed up to do workouts in the NBA, and there aren't those types of restrictions on coaches. In addition, players also have the money to hire personal trainers, nutritionists and shot doctors when they get first round draft pick type money and/or loans before the draft occurs. Moe, as a child of a single mom who works part time at Applebees, probably doesn't currently have all type of money to throw around for training sessions.
i don't think we need to know Moe's personal family business the way you've just blasted it out.
lenn robbins blasted it out already in his article. I'm just re-stating it.
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I wish Mo the best, but am not about to issue him a hallow. His actions including his decommitting from Uconn were for his own benefit. And I don't credit him with any contribution to the recruiting of the class of 2011. I doubt if Harrison in Texas, Sampson in Ohio, Pointer in Detroit (North Carolina ) or the two Californian had any idea who he was or in any way were influence to sign on because of Mo.
Worst Post of 2012. We won't even take other nominees this wins it.
Dave's late evening message went AWOL. Hm!!
Sorry, now realize it was his tweet. Punchy!
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Anyone know if the press conference will be show anywhere? SNY maybe?
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Some people/posters are so naive its scary.
The NBA is littered with athletic 6'8 wing players and there are even more who are in the D-League right now.
I wish Moe all the luck and success in the world if he is leaving but this young man is making a mistake to try and enter the league this year.
I agree. The ideal is to stay 1 more year and exponentially increase his value. Hate to see him hanging on like Ebanks.
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Anyone know if the press conference will be show anywhere? SNY maybe?
MSG
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"The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol" - Realscout
"Many #stjbb fans don't understand the big picture. You'll see. Its all good" - Dave on Twitter Last Night
Anyone have any idea on what these gentlemen are referring to? Can a highly rated recruit be coming?
Thought those two comments were weird too. Hopefully some light is shed on that today at the press conference?
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"The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol" - Realscout
"Many #stjbb fans don't understand the big picture. You'll see. Its all good" - Dave on Twitter Last Night
Anyone have any idea on what these gentlemen are referring to? Can a highly rated recruit be coming?
Thought those two comments were weird too. Hopefully some light is shed on that today at the press conference?
Wouldn't it be cool if Lavin used the press conference to announce a big recruit committing to the program? Not saying it will happen, just that it would have great pr value.
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"The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol" - Realscout
"Many #stjbb fans don't understand the big picture. You'll see. Its all good" - Dave on Twitter Last Night
Anyone have any idea on what these gentlemen are referring to? Can a highly rated recruit be coming?
Thought those two comments were weird too. Hopefully some light is shed on that today at the press conference?
Wouldn't it be cool if Lavin used the press conference to announce a big recruit committing to the program? Not saying it will happen, just that it would have great pr value.
One of the dumbest things the NCAA has created is their "signing periods". It's thoroughly nice personic.
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"The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol" - Realscout
"Many #stjbb fans don't understand the big picture. You'll see. Its all good" - Dave on Twitter Last Night
Anyone have any idea on what these gentlemen are referring to? Can a highly rated recruit be coming?
Thought those two comments were weird too. Hopefully some light is shed on that today at the press conference?
Wouldn't it be cool if Lavin used the press conference to announce a big recruit committing to the program? Not saying it will happen, just that it would have great pr value.
Hello NCAA Violation
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Since he supposedly isn't hiring an agent is it possible that he could announce today and then return later?
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Since he supposedly isn't hiring an agent is it possible that he could announce today and then return later?
Possible if that is the case but unlikely. When the NCAA pushed up the ultimate decision date to early April they knew what they were doing.
When the date was much later these kids could participate in various pre-draft camps and get a feel on where/if they would be drafted. Now they simply do not have that choice anymore. Because by the time those camps come about the decision date will have long since passed.
That is why it would take a real change of heart between now and April 10th for him to back out.
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Over the next couple of weeks a handful of kids are going to put themselves in the first round that are not currently projected there.
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Def have to wish Moe the best, he deserves our support.
Just hope he doesn't have to put on a Heat or Celtics uniform. lol
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"The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol" - Realscout
"Many #stjbb fans don't understand the big picture. You'll see. Its all good" - Dave on Twitter Last Night
Anyone have any idea on what these gentlemen are referring to? Can a highly rated recruit be coming?
Thought those two comments were weird too. Hopefully some light is shed on that today at the press conference?
Wouldn't it be cool if Lavin used the press conference to announce a big recruit committing to the program? Not saying it will happen, just that it would have great pr value.
Hello NCAA Violation
LOL! Yeah, that wouldn't be cool. Could someone else (not Lavin or SJU staff) make the announcement? Lavin could then simply say "no comment" with a sly grin...
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Ill advised move by Moe at this point, he will be eaten alive his rookie season and will get minimal playing time.
He does however have good long-term upside and i wish him success.
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It's really too bad today is not a slow day for sports news. Between Peyton Manning going to the Broncos and the Mets settling the Madoff lawsuit for $162 million, Moe's announcement will not be headline news.
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is the Moe presser going to be broadcasted?
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Good luck to moe with whatever he chooses. A true Johnny on and off the court! now go kill it in the league kid!
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Moose also on the dais.
“@TheBBallDiary: In the press conference room of MSG. It will be steve lavin, moe harkless, and rosa harkless - mother.”
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Moose also on the dais.
“@TheBBallDiary: In the press conference room of MSG. It will be steve lavin, moe harkless, and rosa harkless - mother.”
Moose is the basketball diary?
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Def have to wish Moe the best, he deserves our support.
Just hope he doesn't have to put on a Heat or Celtics uniform. lol
I feel you it would be painful ordering a Harkless shirt from either of those teams
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Where can I watch the press conference? Will it be televised?
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#stjbb Moe Harkless to the NBA official. "It has been my lifelong dream to play in the NBA, and I'm excited to have that opportunity."
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#stjbb Harkless: "I am fully committed to the decision to turn professional. I plan to hire an agent in the next week or so."
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#stjbb Harkless: "I have mostly heard between 15-25 [in the draft], but I am really interested in being chosen by the right team."
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Apparently it's not being televised I just checked all the local channels.
Zagoria is tweeting quotes.
He's going pro - plans to hire an agent next week.
Congrats
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“@AdamZagoria: #s
tjbb Harkless: "I am fully committed to the decision to turn professional. I plan to hire an agent in the next week or so."”
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Where can I watch the press conference? Will it be televised?
someone said MSG, but I don't see it.
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Where can I watch the press conference? Will it be televised?
someone said MSG, but I don't see it.
not on MSG's website either
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Moose also on the dais.
“@TheBBallDiary: In the press conference room of MSG. It will be steve lavin, moe harkless, and rosa harkless - mother.”
I'm not on the dais :)
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Moose also on the dais.
“@TheBBallDiary: In the press conference room of MSG. It will be steve lavin, moe harkless, and rosa harkless - mother.”
I'm not on the dais :)
Zags gave me that scoop. Sorry Man! Ha!
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it's at msg but not on msg. if anyone on the board is there. can you give us an update?
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Nice photo“@MekaleJackson: Moe declares for the NBA draft. Very happy that he's going after his dream. #stjbb http://t.co/zctIuyu5 (http://t.co/zctIuyu5)”
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Zags had his story ready...
http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/03/19/st-johns-harkless-announces-for-the-nba/ (http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/03/19/st-johns-harkless-announces-for-the-nba/)
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In Honor of Moe...Sad to see him go, but proud of the way Moe plays the game. And a Solid Young Man to Boot...
mo' better blues (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjkjF9H-l8I#)
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God Bless him. He is a great kid who is chasing his dreams.
Don't have anything against what he is doing. Probably could use another year but who am I to say. I don't have his situation or opportunity.
Again in the long run this will be a net positive. This program will be seen as one that produces future pros.
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best of luck to moe
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good luck Moe! #queensfinest
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God Bless him. He is a great kid who is chasing his dreams.
Don't have anything against what he is doing. Probably could use another year but who am I to say. I don't have his situation or opportunity.
Again in the long run this will be a net positive. This program will be seen as one that produces future pros.
Fordham - bottom line is Moe was going to be fine either way. More importantly, I hope he gets top notch financial advice and doesn't become one of the 60% bankrupt players 5 years after he retires. Good advice = successful future -> We're all pretty certain he experience a good enough measure of success to have a fairly successful NBA career, at worst an overseas career if something goes bad. Either way, it goes back to the axiom many of our parents taught us - not how much you make, but what you do with it = long term financial security ;)
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God Bless him. He is a great kid who is chasing his dreams.
Don't have anything against what he is doing. Probably could use another year but who am I to say. I don't have his situation or opportunity.
Again in the long run this will be a net positive. This program will be seen as one that produces future pros.
+1
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Can't wait to pick up his D-league jersey. Is Yung Mase still in the d-league? Maybe they can be teammates!
Please post a liny89 type photo of yourself. I've got some work to do...
TheTruth8734 = http://dbagging.com/ (http://dbagging.com/)
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Really love the way posters are ripping his decision.
Stay classy folks.
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I'm being serious. You're a fool if you don't think he's gonna spend time in the D-league. It'd be great if he came into the league and killed it from day 1 but he's way too raw right now. After the whole Jeremy Lin saga NBA teams won't be afraid to send their young prospects to the the d-league to get some playing time.
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God Bless him. He is a great kid who is chasing his dreams.
Don't have anything against what he is doing. Probably could use another year but who am I to say. I don't have his situation or opportunity.
Again in the long run this will be a net positive. This program will be seen as one that produces future pros.
This here is the wisdom.
Look, this decision is a bit of a gamble no doubt. Always is.
But Im so happy fo one of the nicest, humblest kids out there. A tru NYC baller. A tru gentleman. A tru representative of St. John.
NOW GIVE IT TO THEM IN THE WORKOUTS SON!!!!!!
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Really love the way posters are ripping his decision.
Stay classy folks.
Amen!
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Really love the way posters are ripping his decision.
Stay classy folks.
Moose - most of us realize today is a bittersweet, joyful day. We should be proud of what Moe accomplished and will accomplish. Personally, I'd like him to keep growing as a very fine young man and represent St. John's and himself well. That will be his legacy from this new beginning.
AND - I want Moe to thrive financially for his family. I get very happy to see the guys succeed on a path to financial security so their future generations can benefit from their gifts.
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there's no difference between what Moe is doing and any entrepreneur. it's a risk. you take it and work your ass off to succeed.
good luck moe!
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I'm being serious. You're a fool if you don't think he's gonna spend time in the D-league. It'd be great if he came into the league and killed it from day 1 but he's way too raw right now. After the whole Jeremy Lin saga NBA teams won't be afraid to send their young prospects to the the d-league to get some playing time.
C'Mon, you have a little Schadenfreuding goin' on there. And we're not fools - he could wind up in D League, but not necessary on a day like today. Celebrate all the good Moe brought his squad and his school. Be Proud.
Terps fans still laugh at a moment in Nick Caner-Medley's rowdy nature when he was visiting back home in Maine one summer. Got into a scuffle and said, "I'm from MD, and you can't beat me!" I want to see that kind of pride oozing out of everyone's pores these upcoming years! Stick up for Moe from here on out!
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Good Luck Moe
Know you'll rep SJU proudly
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I'm being serious. You're a fool if you don't think he's gonna spend time in the D-league. It'd be great if he came into the league and killed it from day 1 but he's way too raw right now. After the whole Jeremy Lin saga NBA teams won't be afraid to send their young prospects to the the d-league to get some playing time.
Look at the forwards in the middle of last year's 1st round: Moe fits right in. NBA teams have a lot more patience then you think. They don't expect every player to step in and be a big contributor from day 1.
13) Markieff Morris
14) Marcus Morris
15) Kawhi Leonard
18) Chris Singleton
19) Tobias Harris
26) Jordan Hamilton
30) Jimmy Butler
None of these guys are blowing up the league, they weren't expected to! I think everyone overrates how many players are truly NBA ready as rookies.
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Really love the way posters are ripping his decision.
Stay classy folks.
If Harkless blew out his knee next year or played horrible for some reason he would be kicking himself for the rest of his life. Of course selfishly I wanted him to stay but who am I to think a kid should turn down millions of dollars to do what he loves doing. Nothing in life is guarenteed.
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Why hire an agent? Go, test the waters if you must, by why cut off all possibility to eventually make a wiser choice? Who is advising this kid? Oh yea.
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I'm being serious. You're a fool if you don't think he's gonna spend time in the D-league. It'd be great if he came into the league and killed it from day 1 but he's way too raw right now. After the whole Jeremy Lin saga NBA teams won't be afraid to send their young prospects to the the d-league to get some playing time.
C'Mon, you have a little Schadenfreuding goin' on there. And we're not fools - he could wind up in D League, but not necessary on a day like today. Celebrate all the good Moe brought his squad and his school. Be Proud.
Terps fans still laugh at a moment in Nick Caner-Medley's rowdy nature when he was visiting back home in Maine one summer. Got into a scuffle and said, "I'm from MD, and you can't beat me!" I want to see that kind of pride oozing out of everyone's pores these upcoming years! Stick up for Moe from here on out!
I agree. St. John's needed a fresh young face in the league, I wish him well, but I feel like it should have been next year. I really wanted to see a Harkless, Sampson, Obekpa front court :(
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I just think it is a shame when a kid cannot be a kid. Moe is making a mans decision to take care of his family. He should be proud of himself for taking on adult responsibilities. He should be with his friends living the College experience.
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I'm being serious. You're a fool if you don't think he's gonna spend time in the D-league. It'd be great if he came into the league and killed it from day 1 but he's way too raw right now. After the whole Jeremy Lin saga NBA teams won't be afraid to send their young prospects to the the d-league to get some playing time.
Get paid over a million to play in the D-League as opposed to getting paid over a million to sit at the end of the bench Toney Douglas style?
Whatever you want coach.
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I'm being serious. You're a fool if you don't think he's gonna spend time in the D-league. It'd be great if he came into the league and killed it from day 1 but he's way too raw right now. After the whole Jeremy Lin saga NBA teams won't be afraid to send their young prospects to the the d-league to get some playing time.
C'Mon, you have a little Schadenfreuding goin' on there. And we're not fools - he could wind up in D League, but not necessary on a day like today. Celebrate all the good Moe brought his squad and his school. Be Proud.
Terps fans still laugh at a moment in Nick Caner-Medley's rowdy nature when he was visiting back home in Maine one summer. Got into a scuffle and said, "I'm from MD, and you can't beat me!" I want to see that kind of pride oozing out of everyone's pores these upcoming years! Stick up for Moe from here on out!
I agree. St. John's needed a fresh young face in the league, I wish him well, but I feel like it should have been next year. I really wanted to see a Harkless, Sampson, Obekpa front court :(
Cool. I too was salivating at the thought of a bigger, more athletic front line having a solid Beast season next year.
But like proud parents, we must see off one of our children into our big world - lol
At least Moe has his head screwed on straight - THAT is over 1/2 the battle to make it long term in the league.
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just think it is a shame when a kid cannot be a kid. Moe is making a mans decision to take care of his family. He should be proud of himself for taking on adult responsibilities. He should be with his friends living the College experience.
Yeah I am sure Moe will be regretting this on the 1st and 15th of every month. ::)
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Great two days for SJU. Moe Harkless goes to the NBA and Norm Roberts adds another Sweet 16 to his illustrious resume.
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just think it is a shame when a kid cannot be a kid. Moe is making a mans decision to take care of his family. He should be proud of himself for taking on adult responsibilities. He should be with his friends living the College experience.
Yeah I am sure Moe will be regretting this on the 1st and 15th of every month. ::)
Prolly 10 years from now, he'll look back and think and wonder "what if" he had stayed with his guys. But that's ok - life throws all of us different obstacles we need to overcome.
Moe is doing just fine; but, you're exactly right - in an ideal world, Moe has parents w/ money as no object and he can do a Hansborough and stay in college extra time...Then again, he's living a dream either way - can't lose.
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Norm Roberts adds another Sweet 16 to his illustrious resume
Yeah this Florida team's record will sure look nice on his next fabricated basketball card.
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just think it is a shame when a kid cannot be a kid. Moe is making a mans decision to take care of his family. He should be proud of himself for taking on adult responsibilities. He should be with his friends living the College experience.
Yeah I am sure Moe will be regretting this on the 1st and 15th of every month. ::)
Money is nice. Your youth is priceless....
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just think it is a shame when a kid cannot be a kid. Moe is making a mans decision to take care of his family. He should be proud of himself for taking on adult responsibilities. He should be with his friends living the College experience.
Yeah I am sure Moe will be regretting this on the 1st and 15th of every month. ::)
Money is nice. Your youth is priceless....
You go to college to get a job to make money, right?
He did something in one year that most will never do in a lifetime in terms of income.
Can't fault him.
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I'm being serious. You're a fool if you don't think he's gonna spend time in the D-league. It'd be great if he came into the league and killed it from day 1 but he's way too raw right now. After the whole Jeremy Lin saga NBA teams won't be afraid to send their young prospects to the the d-league to get some playing time.
C'Mon, you have a little Schadenfreuding goin' on there. And we're not fools - he could wind up in D League, but not necessary on a day like today. Celebrate all the good Moe brought his squad and his school. Be Proud.
Terps fans still laugh at a moment in Nick Caner-Medley's rowdy nature when he was visiting back home in Maine one summer. Got into a scuffle and said, "I'm from MD, and you can't beat me!" I want to see that kind of pride oozing out of everyone's pores these upcoming years! Stick up for Moe from here on out!
I agree. St. John's needed a fresh young face in the league, I wish him well, but I feel like it should have been next year. I really wanted to see a Harkless, Sampson, Obekpa front court :(
Cool. I too was salivating at the thought of a bigger, more athletic front line having a solid Beast season next year.
But like proud parents, we must see off one of our children into our big world - lol
At least Moe has his head screwed on straight - THAT is over 1/2 the battle to make it long term in the league.
Yeah, like you said it's a bittersweet day. I got a lot of Cuse fans as friends. It'll be nice now that they can't use the argument, "the only good pro you guys have produced over the past 15 years is Metta World Peace."
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just think it is a shame when a kid cannot be a kid. Moe is making a mans decision to take care of his family. He should be proud of himself for taking on adult responsibilities. He should be with his friends living the College experience.
Yeah I am sure Moe will be regretting this on the 1st and 15th of every month. ::)
Money is nice. Your youth is priceless....
Yeah, I regret deciding to tote golf bags at age 13, and get out there hustlin' in the world... No regrets - it all happens for a reason. ;)
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I'm being serious. You're a fool if you don't think he's gonna spend time in the D-league. It'd be great if he came into the league and killed it from day 1 but he's way too raw right now. After the whole Jeremy Lin saga NBA teams won't be afraid to send their young prospects to the the d-league to get some playing time.
C'Mon, you have a little Schadenfreuding goin' on there. And we're not fools - he could wind up in D League, but not necessary on a day like today. Celebrate all the good Moe brought his squad and his school. Be Proud.
Terps fans still laugh at a moment in Nick Caner-Medley's rowdy nature when he was visiting back home in Maine one summer. Got into a scuffle and said, "I'm from MD, and you can't beat me!" I want to see that kind of pride oozing out of everyone's pores these upcoming years! Stick up for Moe from here on out!
I agree. St. John's needed a fresh young face in the league, I wish him well, but I feel like it should have been next year. I really wanted to see a Harkless, Sampson, Obekpa front court :(
Cool. I too was salivating at the thought of a bigger, more athletic front line having a solid Beast season next year.
But like proud parents, we must see off one of our children into our big world - lol
At least Moe has his head screwed on straight - THAT is over 1/2 the battle to make it long term in the league.
Yeah, like you said it's a bittersweet day. I got a lot of Cuse fans as friends. It'll be nice now that they can't use the argument, "the only good pro you guys have produced over the past 15 years is Metta World Peace."
Announcers immediately take to a player's name change. I've wondered what would happen if a player decided to legally change his name to something, say, like Steve Martin's dog in the movie The Jerk. Would the announcers have to say his legally changed name? "And Shithead hits the 3 - whatta shot!"
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In case it wasn't posted yet, here's ESPN's coverage of Moe's press conference:
http://espn.go.com/new-york/story/_/id/7709890/moe-harkless-leaving-st-john-red-storm-early-nba-draft (http://espn.go.com/new-york/story/_/id/7709890/moe-harkless-leaving-st-john-red-storm-early-nba-draft)
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I heard Mike Beasley say about a year ago that he wished he had stayed longer in college, about how going pro made the game less fun, more work, and just generally regretting leaving school for the NBA after one year. Granted, Harkless seems like a far more mentally stable kid who just isn't the headcase Beasley is, but Beasley came in as a SF with a much, much more refined game then Moe, and has struggled to find his role as an NBA player so far. Even with getting picked in the top 3, and having what most would agree was an NBA ready game, Beasley reflects back and wishes he stayed in school. He just basically didn't realize, like somebody above said, he was trading in his youth and a couple more years of fun for a paycheck, and all of the responsibilities that come with it, that he simply may not have been ready for yet.
I think to go to the league that soon, you have to have a special combination of mental toughness and maturity, combined with supreme skill. We saw it when Lebron came to the league, saw it with D-Rose, and are beginning to see it in Kyrie Irving perhaps. Moe seems like he has the mental side down, but I just don't think he is at all ready for the NBA physically or in terms of skill refinement. As good as Moe was this year, we never saw him dominate and take over a game because he is so raw in so many areas. He would seem to put his stamp on the game in so many different areas, but never completely be able to dominate a game. He doesn't have an NBA jump shot, his handle is questionable, doesn't play much of a back to the basket game, and he doesn't possess a signature, or go to move where he can get a good clean look whenever he wants it, and his is physically too small to defend guys at his height, in my opinion. Now, all of these things can be improved upon, but that is the point, he would have been much better served to stay for one more year and enter the draft with some improvement in these categories. I don't blame or hold it against Moe for leaving, I will never tell a kid to leave that money on the table if he and his family really need it, and I will never hold it against a kid for wanting to realize his dream, even if he may not be ready yet. Best of luck Maurice, it was a pleasure to watch you play, and I just hope that you don't bounce around team to team and never fulfill all of that potential and regret this one day. Here's to hoping you end up in a situation with a coach and teammates who can mold you into the star that you have the talent to be.
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I have to say.. Lavin making quotes about "coaching Moe" are almost funny
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I wish him good luck. Thanks.
We won´t have any player from New York next year.
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Nice to have two millionaires in the 2011 STJ recrutin class.
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just think it is a shame when a kid cannot be a kid. Moe is making a mans decision to take care of his family. He should be proud of himself for taking on adult responsibilities. He should be with his friends living the College experience.
Yeah I am sure Moe will be regretting this on the 1st and 15th of every month. ::)
Money is nice. Your youth is priceless....
You go to college to get a job to make money, right?
He did something in one year that most will never do in a lifetime in terms of income.
Can't fault him.
Life is not a sprint it is a marathon.
I am not faulting him at all. I just wish he was allowed to be a 18 year old College student.
I wish him well for taking on this challenge.
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Funniest thing is, all concerns on this board, email, twitter, and speaking to various general managers and college coaches other then jim boheim were all taken into account. Id like to thank everybody for your wishes and dialogue that was seriously brought to moe and lavin and others intention.
The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol
But seriously dont think every option wasnt factored. Im a little smarter then most think. Thats what dumb people say though right lol. Anyway, have a good one ya. Dave hit me up!
We wish Moe nothing but the best, his NBA jersey's are going to be hot, Can't wait until he comes to LA with his team to watch
"The decision announced tomorrow will make alot more sense when you hear it tomorrow lol" - Realscout
"Many #stjbb fans don't understand the big picture. You'll see. Its all good" - Dave on Twitter Last Night
Anyone have any idea on what these gentlemen are referring to? Can a highly rated recruit be coming?
from all the quotes i've read, i don't think any have addressed the above 2 comments. dave, care to elaborate on what you meant by the above?
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Moose also on the dais.
“@TheBBallDiary: In the press conference room of MSG. It will be steve lavin, moe harkless, and rosa harkless - mother.”
Moose is the basketball diary?
Unless Moose lost 40 lbs and turned Asian then he isn't the basketball diary.
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I heard Mike Beasley say about a year ago that he wished he had stayed longer in college, about how going pro made the game less fun, more work, and just generally regretting leaving school for the NBA after one year. Granted, Harkless seems like a far more mentally stable kid who just isn't the headcase Beasley is, but Beasley came in as a SF with a much, much more refined game then Moe, and has struggled to find his role as an NBA player so far. Even with getting picked in the top 3, and having what most would agree was an NBA ready game, Beasley reflects back and wishes he stayed in school. He just basically didn't realize, like somebody above said, he was trading in his youth and a couple more years of fun for a paycheck, and all of the responsibilities that come with it, that he simply may not have been ready for yet.
I think to go to the league that soon, you have to have a special combination of mental toughness and maturity, combined with supreme skill. We saw it when Lebron came to the league, saw it with D-Rose, and are beginning to see it in Kyrie Irving perhaps. Moe seems like he has the mental side down, but I just don't think he is at all ready for the NBA physically or in terms of skill refinement. As good as Moe was this year, we never saw him dominate and take over a game because he is so raw in so many areas. He would seem to put his stamp on the game in so many different areas, but never completely be able to dominate a game. He doesn't have an NBA jump shot, his handle is questionable, doesn't play much of a back to the basket game, and he doesn't possess a signature, or go to move where he can get a good clean look whenever he wants it, and his is physically too small to defend guys at his height, in my opinion. Now, all of these things can be improved upon, but that is the point, he would have been much better served to stay for one more year and enter the draft with some improvement in these categories. I don't blame or hold it against Moe for leaving, I will never tell a kid to leave that money on the table if he and his family really need it, and I will never hold it against a kid for wanting to realize his dream, even if he may not be ready yet. Best of luck Maurice, it was a pleasure to watch you play, and I just hope that you don't bounce around team to team and never fulfill all of that potential and regret this one day. Here's to hoping you end up in a situation with a coach and teammates who can mold you into the star that you have the talent to be.
This is like anyone who's grinded on Wall St. for 20 years in a job they didn't like, takes their 5+ MIL up to Vermont to become an Artisan Something, and then says they regret doing it 20+ years later, longing for having done more grad school or a different career. Easy to say when you're sitting on a pile of cash years later and longing for your innocence...
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Moose also on the dais.
“@TheBBallDiary: In the press conference room of MSG. It will be steve lavin, moe harkless, and rosa harkless - mother.”
Moose is the basketball diary?
Unless Moose lost 40 lbs and turned Asian then he isn't the basketball diary.
But I do love his work :)
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Congrats Moe I look forward to cheering him on during his NBA career. Whether he should of stayed or not is irrelevant at this point. Lets just support him and trust his judgement
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Proud mom. Proud coach. Proud fans. Good luck Moe!
(http://c0014234.r32.cf1.rackcdn.com/x2_b9048b9)
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I heard Mike Beasley say about a year ago that he wished he had stayed longer in college, about how going pro made the game less fun, more work, and just generally regretting leaving school for the NBA after one year. Granted, Harkless seems like a far more mentally stable kid who just isn't the headcase Beasley is, but Beasley came in as a SF with a much, much more refined game then Moe, and has struggled to find his role as an NBA player so far. Even with getting picked in the top 3, and having what most would agree was an NBA ready game, Beasley reflects back and wishes he stayed in school. He just basically didn't realize, like somebody above said, he was trading in his youth and a couple more years of fun for a paycheck, and all of the responsibilities that come with it, that he simply may not have been ready for yet.
I think to go to the league that soon, you have to have a special combination of mental toughness and maturity, combined with supreme skill. We saw it when Lebron came to the league, saw it with D-Rose, and are beginning to see it in Kyrie Irving perhaps. Moe seems like he has the mental side down, but I just don't think he is at all ready for the NBA physically or in terms of skill refinement. As good as Moe was this year, we never saw him dominate and take over a game because he is so raw in so many areas. He would seem to put his stamp on the game in so many different areas, but never completely be able to dominate a game. He doesn't have an NBA jump shot, his handle is questionable, doesn't play much of a back to the basket game, and he doesn't possess a signature, or go to move where he can get a good clean look whenever he wants it, and his is physically too small to defend guys at his height, in my opinion. Now, all of these things can be improved upon, but that is the point, he would have been much better served to stay for one more year and enter the draft with some improvement in these categories. I don't blame or hold it against Moe for leaving, I will never tell a kid to leave that money on the table if he and his family really need it, and I will never hold it against a kid for wanting to realize his dream, even if he may not be ready yet. Best of luck Maurice, it was a pleasure to watch you play, and I just hope that you don't bounce around team to team and never fulfill all of that potential and regret this one day. Here's to hoping you end up in a situation with a coach and teammates who can mold you into the star that you have the talent to be.
This is like anyone who's grinded on Wall St. for 20 years in a job they didn't like, takes their 5+ MIL up to Vermont to become an Artisan Something, and then says they regret doing it 20+ years later, longing for having done more grad school or a different career. Easy to say when you're sitting on a pile of cash years later and longing for your innocence...
eh, but Mike Beasley is still just a kid who would have just been finishing college if he were a 4 year guy. It's not like he is retired from the league and reflecting. It seemed like the thoughts of a kid who was like... "shit, I could have been enjoying these last couple years, been a star on campus and still been getting paid right now, instead of coming out early and getting dogged by the media for the last 3 years". I just thought it was interesting, coming from a guy, who at the time was like 20 or 21 and was worth 8 figures.
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Chris McCullough @_TeamMccullough n
Moe Harkless going to the #League #Letsgooo
Moe harkless going to the league that's what's up! #nystandup
Retweeted by Chris McCullough
Whoever has mentioned this will be huge for recruiting is dead on.
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Proud mom. Proud coach. Proud fans. Good luck Moe!
(http://c0014234.r32.cf1.rackcdn.com/x2_b9048b9)
Great picture. That's why although I think he should have stuck around I can't hold it against him. That right there is a kid realizing his dream, and the proudest mother in the world. Moe seems like such a nice kid. Best of luck.
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Chris McCullough @_TeamMccullough n
Moe Harkless going to the #League #Letsgooo
Moe harkless going to the league that's what's up! #nystandup
Retweeted by Chris McCullough
Whoever has mentioned this will be huge for recruiting is dead on.
If McCullough moves up to 13, getting him and Lawrence is making me weak in the knees.
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Proud mom. Proud coach. Proud fans. Good luck Moe!
(http://c0014234.r32.cf1.rackcdn.com/x2_b9048b9)
+1000
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Chris McCullough @_TeamMccullough n
Moe Harkless going to the #League #Letsgooo
Moe harkless going to the league that's what's up! #nystandup
Retweeted by Chris McCullough
Whoever has mentioned this will be huge for recruiting is dead on.
If McCullough moves up to 13, getting him and Lawrence is making me weak in the knees.
That would be dangerous
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Chris McCullough @_TeamMccullough n
Moe Harkless going to the #League #Letsgooo
Moe harkless going to the league that's what's up! #nystandup
Retweeted by Chris McCullough
Whoever has mentioned this will be huge for recruiting is dead on.
If McCullough moves up to 13, getting him and Lawrence is making me weak in the knees.
+1
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Thought when NBA made new rule that you had to wait one year after your high school graduation class it also reqired you to be 19 years of age? Anyway good luck and goodbye Mo, we hardly new ya.
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Thought when NBA made new rule that you had to wait one year after your high school graduation class it also reqired you to be 19 years of age? Anyway good luck and goodbye Mo, we hardly new ya.
It was one or the other.
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Really love the way posters are ripping his decision.
Stay classy folks.
If Harkless blew out his knee next year or played horrible for some reason he would be kicking himself for the rest of his life. ....
If he blew out his knee next year and had chose to stay in college he would HAVE NOOOOO MONEY!!!! Now at least he would have money!!! *facepalm*
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Good luck, Moe! We're all behind you. Some guys are just a little upset you weren't around longer that's all.
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We'll have a much better record next season, although things won't quite feel the same without him.
Regardless of whatever flaws his still-developing game has, the kid was a flat-out stud for us.
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Really love the way posters are ripping his decision.
Stay classy folks.
If Harkless blew out his knee next year or played horrible for some reason he would be kicking himself for the rest of his life. ....
If he blew out his knee next year and had chose to stay in college he would HAVE NOOOOO MONEY!!!! Now at least he would have money!!! *facepalm*
I'm not pissed at him at all, but if he tears his ACL during a workout for an NBA team, he has no money. Injuries can happen anywhere.
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I guess we will have to accept that early departures will be a routine element with Coach Lavin and his recruitment. Going 11 years between early departures is not a good indicator for any high profile school now days.
It probably helps Coach in recruiting players for the same position. Case in point the SG position! None of us know how long D'A will be with us, but it probably will not be for the own standard of four years. Recruits are aware that playing time will be available due to kids going pro early. Just look at the schools like UK, NC and Duke.
We all would love to see Moe play that second year, but it is what it is. A short term loss, but perhaps a long term gain.
Have a great pro career, Moe.
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Really love the way posters are ripping his decision.
Stay classy folks.
If Harkless blew out his knee next year or played horrible for some reason he would be kicking himself for the rest of his life. ....
If he blew out his knee next year and had chose to stay in college he would HAVE NOOOOO MONEY!!!! Now at least he would have money!!! *facepalm*
I'm not pissed at him at all, but if he tears his ACL during a workout for an NBA team, he has no money. Injuries can happen anywhere.
How would that stop him from being successful inside or outside the league OR earning a degree if he so choose to? Injuries can happen anywhere, but timeing is everything.
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You would much rather be hurt AFTER you sign your pro contract and you get your money. Ask Greg Oden, if he stayed 1 or 2 more years he would've been in much worse shape financially. Ask Robbie Hummel, I bet he now wishes he went pro 2 years ago, even if that pro career was in Europe I bet his offers would've been much higher then than they will be at the end of this year. Hell, ask DJ Kennedy. I bet overseas offers would've been far better if he came out after junior year than they were after his injury last year.
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I will always love Moe's commitment to St. John's. He chose us and started the process of legitimacy and through everything that happened, he did not waiver and continued to play hard.
Hope he doesnt go to a rival of the Knicks so I dont have to hate him.
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Moe got the ball rolling for us in recruiting. Doesn't matter how long he played here he will always be one of us now.
Best of luck Moe and I hope you go real high in the draft and more importantly have a great NBA career
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People here are complaining about Moe and meanwhile Victor Rudd of USF declared. Least he didn't hire an agent.
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Nate trying to get Moe Harkless trending on twitter again. LOL. He's retweeting like crazy right now! gotta love his dedication to his boy.
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Draftexpress said they knew he would turn pro since the being of this year & I though it was the Duke/ Providence game which catapulted him into stardom. I wonder how they knew that?!?
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I wish Moe Harkless good luck and I want to thank him for his work.
I am sure that he will make the same thing in the NBA than in St. John´s: We will be very proud for him.
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Chris McCullough @_TeamMccullough n
Moe Harkless going to the #League #Letsgooo
Moe harkless going to the league that's what's up! #nystandup
Retweeted by Chris McCullough
Whoever has mentioned this will be huge for recruiting is dead on.
If McCullough moves up to 13, getting him and Lawrence is making me weak in the knees.
+1
+2
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People here are complaining about Moe and meanwhile Victor Rudd of USF declared. Least he didn't hire an agent.
Victor Rudd's USF went 12-6 in the BE, and they won two tournament games. And he's a junior.
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People here are complaining about Moe and meanwhile Victor Rudd of USF declared. Least he didn't hire an agent.
Victor Rudd's USF went 12-6 in the BE, and they won two tournament games. And he's a junior.
...and he'll likely be selected after Moe in the draft.
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People here are complaining about Moe and meanwhile Victor Rudd of USF declared. Least he didn't hire an agent.
Victor Rudd's USF went 12-6 in the BE, and they won two tournament games. And he's a junior.
...and he'll likely be selected after Moe in the draft.
If at all.
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Theo - while you have a very valid point about Moe not making any money if he gets hurt you are being very naive to the entire situation.
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People here are complaining about Moe and meanwhile Victor Rudd of USF declared. Least he didn't hire an agent.
Victor Rudd's USF went 12-6 in the BE, and they won two tournament games. And he's a junior.
What difference does that make? BTW-By any account USF played one of the weakest BE schedules. How else does a team with a 12-6 BE record just barely sneak in to the NCAA's when teams with 10-8, 9-9 and even 8-10 routinely make the NCAA's?
But again what difference does that make? Put Rudd in Rupp Arena or Cameron then put 15 NBA scouts in those arena's when USF plays them. See what kind of performance he puts up then see if those scouts care about a 12-6 league record.
Some of you guys should separate your pro-SJU emotions from getting emotional over someone who you do not know and quite frankly over a 24 hour day think about maybe 2-3 minutes at the most. This is not about Moe Harkless for most of you. This is about SJU struggling this year and the worries that their best player is leaving early and now SJU may struggle again next year (I do not share that sentiment btw). For selfish reasons many of you want him to stay so you now start inventing all of these reasons (as if he has not gone over all of them with his multitude of advisors) why he should stay. Guys he's gone. Relax. SJU will be just fine. See that smile on Lavin's face yesterday, he ain't worried. Nor should you.
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People here are complaining about Moe and meanwhile Victor Rudd of USF declared. Least he didn't hire an agent.
Victor Rudd's USF went 12-6 in the BE, and they won two tournament games. And he's a junior.
...and he'll likely be selected after Moe in the draft.
If at all.
Correct. That is a player who needs the extra year. But Rudd's ups are sick. I've seen his elbow above the rim on a couple of dunks during Beast play. I think his consistency is one area of concern.
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People here are complaining about Moe and meanwhile Victor Rudd of USF declared. Least he didn't hire an agent.
Victor Rudd's USF went 12-6 in the BE, and they won two tournament games. And he's a junior.
What difference does that make? BTW-By any account USF played one of the weakest BE schedules. How else does a team with a 12-6 BE record just barely sneak in to the NCAA's when teams with 10-8, 9-9 and even 8-10 routinely make the NCAA's?
But again what difference does that make? Put Rudd in Rupp Arena or Cameron then put 15 NBA scouts in those arena's when USF plays them. See what kind of performance he puts up then see if those scouts care about a 12-6 league record
Some of you guys should separate your pro-SJU emotions from getting emotional over someone who you do not know and quite frankly over a 24 hour day think about maybe 2-3 minutes at the most. This is not about Moe Harkless for most of you. This is about SJU struggling this year and the worries that their best player is leaving early and now SJU may struggle again next year (I do not share that sentiment btw). For selfish reasons many of you want him to stay so you now start inventing all of these reasons (as if he has not gone over all of them with his multitude of advisors) why he should stay.
Guys he's gone. Relax. SJU will be just fine. See that smile on Lavin's face yesterday, he ain't worried. Nor should you.
Rudd is a hell of a lot more ready than Harkless. Maybe you need to separate your emotions from common sense. Rudd tore us a new one. Harkless may have played a harder schedule, but let's forget that against almost all of those teams he bombed.
I hope he improves. I really do, but don't tell me that because Kentucky kicked our asses that Harkless is more prepared. If anything he's more prepared for a beat down.
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People here are complaining about Moe and meanwhile Victor Rudd of USF declared. Least he didn't hire an agent.
Victor Rudd's USF went 12-6 in the BE, and they won two tournament games. And he's a junior.
What difference does that make? BTW-By any account USF played one of the weakest BE schedules. How else does a team with a 12-6 BE record just barely sneak in to the NCAA's when teams with 10-8, 9-9 and even 8-10 routinely make the NCAA's?
But again what difference does that make? Put Rudd in Rupp Arena or Cameron then put 15 NBA scouts in those arena's when USF plays them. See what kind of performance he puts up then see if those scouts care about a 12-6 league record
Some of you guys should separate your pro-SJU emotions from getting emotional over someone who you do not know and quite frankly over a 24 hour day think about maybe 2-3 minutes at the most. This is not about Moe Harkless for most of you. This is about SJU struggling this year and the worries that their best player is leaving early and now SJU may struggle again next year (I do not share that sentiment btw). For selfish reasons many of you want him to stay so you now start inventing all of these reasons (as if he has not gone over all of them with his multitude of advisors) why he should stay.
Guys he's gone. Relax. SJU will be just fine. See that smile on Lavin's face yesterday, he ain't worried. Nor should you.
Rudd is a hell of a lot more ready than Harkless. Maybe you need to separate your emotions from common sense. Rudd tore us a new one. Harkless may have played a harder schedule, but let's forget that against almost all of those teams he bombed.
I hope he improves. I really do, but don't tell me that because Kentucky kicked our asses that Harkless is more prepared. If anything he's more prepared for a beat down.
Rudd is more ready than Harkless?
Rudd needs to get his passport in order if he stays in the draft.
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People here are complaining about Moe and meanwhile Victor Rudd of USF declared. Least he didn't hire an agent.
Victor Rudd's USF went 12-6 in the BE, and they won two tournament games. And he's a junior.
What difference does that make? BTW-By any account USF played one of the weakest BE schedules. How else does a team with a 12-6 BE record just barely sneak in to the NCAA's when teams with 10-8, 9-9 and even 8-10 routinely make the NCAA's?
But again what difference does that make? Put Rudd in Rupp Arena or Cameron then put 15 NBA scouts in those arena's when USF plays them. See what kind of performance he puts up then see if those scouts care about a 12-6 league record
Some of you guys should separate your pro-SJU emotions from getting emotional over someone who you do not know and quite frankly over a 24 hour day think about maybe 2-3 minutes at the most. This is not about Moe Harkless for most of you. This is about SJU struggling this year and the worries that their best player is leaving early and now SJU may struggle again next year (I do not share that sentiment btw). For selfish reasons many of you want him to stay so you now start inventing all of these reasons (as if he has not gone over all of them with his multitude of advisors) why he should stay.
Guys he's gone. Relax. SJU will be just fine. See that smile on Lavin's face yesterday, he ain't worried. Nor should you.
Rudd is a hell of a lot more ready than Harkless. Maybe you need to separate your emotions from common sense. Rudd tore us a new one. Harkless may have played a harder schedule, but let's forget that against almost all of those teams he bombed.
I hope he improves. I really do, but don't tell me that because Kentucky kicked our asses that Harkless is more prepared. If anything he's more prepared for a beat down.
Seriously give it a rest.
May be you need to watch the SJU-Duke game and see Mr. Harkless tear Duke a new one. You are a total fool and completely dishonest. First you claim Rudd is coming off a 12-6 team as opposed to Harkless coming off a 6-12 team as a reason. Now you claim that Rudd tore us up, a 6-12 team that finished 13-19.
So let me get this straight, you are more impressed with Rudd ripping up a 13-19 team then you are Harkless tearing up a 27-5 perrenial power team? In other words you will say and do anything to try to keep a losing argument going even when it contradicts what you said earlier.
Harkless won Rookie of the Year, did Rudd win an award? And who said Rudd is making a mistake? I didn't. I just love how you try to justify your ridiculous arguments with more ridiculous arguments. Just tell me how Roy Williams and Bill Self are overrated. Less true but more entertaining.
I love how you are an NBA scout now as well. What will you do if Harkless is drafted higher then Rudd, whose opinion should Harkless believe, yours or and NBA scout?
I think Kansas and UNC should fire both coaches because you say so.
I think I made my point.
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People here are complaining about Moe and meanwhile Victor Rudd of USF declared. Least he didn't hire an agent.
Victor Rudd's USF went 12-6 in the BE, and they won two tournament games. And he's a junior.
What difference does that make? BTW-By any account USF played one of the weakest BE schedules. How else does a team with a 12-6 BE record just barely sneak in to the NCAA's when teams with 10-8, 9-9 and even 8-10 routinely make the NCAA's?
But again what difference does that make? Put Rudd in Rupp Arena or Cameron then put 15 NBA scouts in those arena's when USF plays them. See what kind of performance he puts up then see if those scouts care about a 12-6 league record
Some of you guys should separate your pro-SJU emotions from getting emotional over someone who you do not know and quite frankly over a 24 hour day think about maybe 2-3 minutes at the most. This is not about Moe Harkless for most of you. This is about SJU struggling this year and the worries that their best player is leaving early and now SJU may struggle again next year (I do not share that sentiment btw). For selfish reasons many of you want him to stay so you now start inventing all of these reasons (as if he has not gone over all of them with his multitude of advisors) why he should stay.
Guys he's gone. Relax. SJU will be just fine. See that smile on Lavin's face yesterday, he ain't worried. Nor should you.
Rudd is a hell of a lot more ready than Harkless. Maybe you need to separate your emotions from common sense. Rudd tore us a new one. Harkless may have played a harder schedule, but let's forget that against almost all of those teams he bombed. .......
LOL look at the teams he played his great games against. Whats the common theme of all those games?? Those teams we played against played MAN TO MAN DEFENSE.
And what defense is played in the NBA?? MAN TO MAN. Moe struggled against zone defenses at times this year. That will not at all be a worry in the NBA. What players do against man-to-man defenses mean a whole lot more to NBA scouts than what they do against zone.
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So Fordham, if I'm a fool than Jim Boeheim is a fool as well? Is that right? You do realize that you just lost this argument about a 100 times over?
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And what defense is played in the NBA?? MAN TO MAN.
They play plenty of zone defense in the NBA these days
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See that smile on Lavin's face yesterday, he ain't worried.
He was smiling because he would not have to deal with a certain "handler" anymore.
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Last pick of the first round (30th overall) in Chad Ford's first mock draft for ESPN:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/7712831/nba-mock-draft-version-1 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/7712831/nba-mock-draft-version-1)
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Last pick of the first round (30th overall) in Chad Ford's first mock draft for ESPN:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/7712831/nba-mock-draft-version-1 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/7712831/nba-mock-draft-version-1)
Which = far from a lock. Fordham? Theo? Here's an objective viewpoint? Call him a fool Fordham. Oh wait, you already have.
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Last pick of the first round (30th overall) in Chad Ford's first mock draft for ESPN:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/7712831/nba-mock-draft-version-1 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/7712831/nba-mock-draft-version-1)
Here what Chad had to say about him:
Analysis: Harkless reminds me a little of Trevor Ariza. He is a terrific scorer and defender who needs to get a more settled jump shot. Although the Bulls need a shooter, Harkless would be tough to pass up here if he's still on the board.
Hopefully he goes much higher than 30 and going to the Bulls would be a disaster IMO. Not much playing time on that team for him.
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See that smile on Lavin's face yesterday, he ain't worried.
He was smiling because he would not have to deal with a certain "handler" anymore.
Right. I cannot believe some of you are serious with this stuff.
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I'd like my response to the actuality of Moe leaving for the pros to be duly noted. Since it was previosly presumptively postulated by a persistantly petulant poster that upon Moe's hypothetical departure, me/we would respond with a similiarly venomous outrage as Nuri's quitting justly received. Apples and oranges my friends.
Dear Maurice,
Best of luck to you in the league and always. Your aesthetically pleasing, seemingly effortless, silky smooth style will NEVER BE FORGOTTEN by your legion of adoring fans. Your uniquely sublime skill set was an absolute joy to behold. You were a gazelle forced to battle down low with water buffaloes on a personnel challenged team with no head coach, yet your light shone brightly through the fog. You never wavered and came back for more, 40 minute night after night after night. When you severely sprained your ankle late in the season, there was never a question that through sheer force of will,tape, advil and ice, you would play at way less than full stregnth because that is what the team and situation demanded. While D'lo complained and argued about every single call the entire season, you complained and argued about none.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for this season and for making the at the time very difficult choice of St. John's University.
Very fondly and appreciatively,
Carmine
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See that smile on Lavin's face yesterday, he ain't worried.
He was smiling because he would not have to deal with a certain "handler" anymore.
Far from the truth
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I'd like my response to the actuality of Moe leaving for the pros to be duly noted. Since it was previosly presumptively postulated by a persistantly petulant poster that upon Moe's hypothetical departure, me/we would respond with a similiarly venomous outrage as Nuri's quitting justly received. Apples and oranges my friends.
Dear Maurice,
Best of luck to you in the league and always. Your aesthetically pleasing, seemingly effortless, silky smooth style will NEVER BE FORGOTTEN by your legion of adoring fans. Your uniquely sublime skill set was an absolute joy to behold. You were a gazelle forced to battle down low with water buffaloes on a personnel challenged team with no head coach, yet your light shone brightly through the fog. You never wavered and came back for more, 40 minute night after night after night. When you severely sprained your ankle late in the season, there was never a question that through sheer force of will,tape, advil and ice, you would play at way less than full stregnth because that is what the team and situation demanded. While D'lo complained and argued about every single call the entire season, you complained and argued about none.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for this season and for making the at the time very difficult choice of St. John's University.
Very fondly and appreciatively,
Carmine
Damn Carmine that was poetic.
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Last pick of the first round (30th overall) in Chad Ford's first mock draft for ESPN:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/7712831/nba-mock-draft-version-1 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/7712831/nba-mock-draft-version-1)
Which = far from a lock. Fordham? Theo? Here's an objective viewpoint? Call him a fool Fordham. Oh wait, you already have.
Where did I say he was a lock? You speak like an expert and you also speak like you have his best interest in mind. You are and have neither.
Your opinion means nothing and you contradict yourself. My point with Moe and the USF player was not to suggest either is ready or both are ready but your arguments accepting one and dismissing the other smells of someone who clearly is digging a hole and cannot get out of it.
I said he could probably use another year but I cannot argue with what he was doing. Seriously do not respond to any of my posts because not only do you not have a clue with what you are talking about but you clearly don't have a clue with what I am talking about.
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See that smile on Lavin's face yesterday, he ain't worried.
He was smiling because he would not have to deal with a certain "handler" anymore.
Far from the truth
No clue Dave. They have no clue.
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See that smile on Lavin's face yesterday, he ain't worried.
He was smiling because he would not have to deal with a certain "handler" anymore.
Far from the truth
No clue Dave. They have no clue.
Boeheim - no clue. Chad Ford - no clue. Hmm. Right as usual Fordham.
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Right, PMG is talking about Lavin's reaction at the press conference and that is the same as Boeheim commenting on Harkless and Chad Ford speculating on where he will land. Again everyone who makes that connection stand on your head.
Not to mention I am neither endorsing nor disputing Chad Ford or anyone else's mock draft nor saying one is better then the other.
Literally, no clue. None. If anyone had any doubt please look at what I wrote and the various responses.
Ich bin ein Berliner
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I'd like my response to the actuality of Moe leaving for the pros to be duly noted. Since it was previosly presumptively postulated by a persistantly petulant poster that upon Moe's hypothetical departure, me/we would respond with a similiarly venomous outrage as Nuri's quitting justly received. Apples and oranges my friends.
Dear Maurice,
Best of luck to you in the league and always. Your aesthetically pleasing, seemingly effortless, silky smooth style will NEVER BE FORGOTTEN by your legion of adoring fans. Your uniquely sublime skill set was an absolute joy to behold. You were a gazelle forced to battle down low with water buffaloes on a personnel challenged team with no head coach, yet your light shone brightly through the fog. You never wavered and came back for more, 40 minute night after night after night. When you severely sprained your ankle late in the season, there was never a question that through sheer force of will,tape, advil and ice, you would play at way less than full stregnth because that is what the team and situation demanded. While D'lo complained and argued about every single call the entire season, you complained and argued about none.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for this season and for making the at the time very difficult choice of St. John's University.
Very fondly and appreciatively,
Carmine
Damn Carmine that was poetic.
Thanks Dave. I'm in the market for a new favorite player.
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See that smile on Lavin's face yesterday, he ain't worried.
He was smiling because he would not have to deal with a certain "handler" anymore.
LOLLLLLLLLLLL that's why he's going for Lenny Kadisha right?? Also one of Nate's kids.
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I can't see how Nate is anything but a friend and great resource for St. John's basketball.
Of course i don't know him personally, but he seems to be a friend of the program. Is there any evidence to the contrary?
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I'd like my response to the actuality of Moe leaving for the pros to be duly noted. Since it was previosly presumptively postulated by a persistantly petulant poster that upon Moe's hypothetical departure, me/we would respond with a similiarly venomous outrage as Nuri's quitting justly received. Apples and oranges my friends.
Dear Maurice,
Best of luck to you in the league and always. Your aesthetically pleasing, seemingly effortless, silky smooth style will NEVER BE FORGOTTEN by your legion of adoring fans. Your uniquely sublime skill set was an absolute joy to behold. You were a gazelle forced to battle down low with water buffaloes on a personnel challenged team with no head coach, yet your light shone brightly through the fog. You never wavered and came back for more, 40 minute night after night after night. When you severely sprained your ankle late in the season, there was never a question that through sheer force of will,tape, advil and ice, you would play at way less than full strength because that is what the team and situation demanded. While D'lo complained and argued about every single call the entire season, you complained and argued about none.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for this season and for making the at the time very difficult choice of St. John's University.
Very fondly and appreciatively,
Carmine
Carmine - you must have majored in English because you love alliteration - well done ;)
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Of course PMG doesn't like Nate...Nate is helping St. John's and has been an asset to St. John's and not his boys at Seton Hall...I'm sure those guys at Seton Hall don't like Nate helping his players get better prepared for the NBA by going to St. John's versus Seton Hall
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why the hate for PMG? Hes a st johns fan and knowledgeable at that
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Here is a nice article outlining the new rules as far as undergrads going into the draft. Most of the stuff has been stated before, but this lays it out pretty good.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Testing-the-NBA-Draft-Waters-in-2012-3869 (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Testing-the-NBA-Draft-Waters-in-2012-3869)
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Austin Rivers of Duke declaring for the draft. Thats one more that will go ahead of Moe.
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/23/austin-rivers-to-declare-for-the-nba-draft/ (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/23/austin-rivers-to-declare-for-the-nba-draft/)
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Austin Rivers of Duke declaring for the draft. Thats one more that will go ahead of Moe.
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/23/austin-rivers-to-declare-for-the-nba-draft/ (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/23/austin-rivers-to-declare-for-the-nba-draft/)
You have to question his advisor. Why hire an agent now? What's the point? If every Austin Rivers goes pro he could slip to the 2nd round.
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Of course PMG doesn't like Nate...Nate is helping St. John's and has been an asset to St. John's and not his boys at Seton Hall...I'm sure those guys at Seton Hall don't like Nate helping his players get better prepared for the NBA by going to St. John's versus Seton Hall
Nate is helping Nate and please don't think it is anything more then that.
For all of you guys that think I am a closet Seton Hall fan you are really dbags of the highest order. I do cheer for Seton Hall and I get excited to see a local Catholic school have success. My Father graduated from SHU Class of 55, played baseball there and I attended Xavier HS in Manhattan with PJ Carlesimo's younger brother Cory.
You guys don't like some of the things I post that are not RAH RAH RAH St. John's but they are honest and truthful. I have lived thru and witnessed every high and low of the program since I am a little kid. My Father gave me season tickets as a graduation present from college because that is what I asked for, he offered a car and I took two years of season tickets to St. John's. I have VERY close personal friends that have played basketball and baseball for the school and I have VERY close personal friends that currently work for the school.
The people that know me on this board will never ever question my loyalty to St. John's and they also know that I don't post about 80% of the stuff I know that is going on with the program.
But hey - Fordham96 doesn't think I know what I am talking about.
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Most people expected Rivers to come out so I don't think that pushes Moe down in the draft.
But you're right, if some of the unexpected freshmen declare, like Teague, Zeller from Indiana etc. Then Moe might be in some trouble.
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Of course PMG doesn't like Nate...Nate is helping St. John's and has been an asset to St. John's and not his boys at Seton Hall...I'm sure those guys at Seton Hall don't like Nate helping his players get better prepared for the NBA by going to St. John's versus Seton Hall
Nate is helping Nate and please don't think it is anything more then that.
For all of you guys that think I am a closet Seton Hall fan you are really dbags of the highest order. I do cheer for Seton Hall and I get excited to see a local Catholic school have success. My Father graduated from SHU Class of 55, played baseball there and I attended Xavier HS in Manhattan with PJ Carlesimo's younger brother Cory.
You guys don't like some of the things I post that are not RAH RAH RAH St. John's but they are honest and truthful. I have lived thru and witnessed every high and low of the program since I am a little kid. My Father gave me season tickets as a graduation present from college because that is what I asked for, he offered a car and I took two years of season tickets to St. John's. I have VERY close personal friends that have played basketball and baseball for the school and I have VERY close personal friends that currently work for the school.
The people that know me on this board will never ever question my loyalty to St. John's and they also know that I don't post about 80% of the stuff I know that is going on with the program.
But hey - Fordham96 doesn't think I know what I am talking about.
Have to question your IQ. Choosing 2 years of season tickets over a car. You could have bought your own season tickets. Either your IQ is low or your father is very cheap and you knew he would have bought you a sh$t car. :)
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why the hate for PMG? Hes a st johns fan and knowledgeable at that
Agreed. PMG is one of the best.
I disagree a little with his take on Nate. I think Nate Blue is very good for St. John's, and I hope Nate and Lav keep their relationship going strong. Nate knows talent and that cannot be argued by anyone.
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Have to question your IQ. Choosing 2 years of season tickets over a car. You could have bought your own season tickets. Either your IQ is low or your father is very cheap and you knew he would have bought you a sh$t car.
Some calls YOU out for being a dbag you take a cheap shot at my Father, you proved me right immediately.
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Have to question your IQ. Choosing 2 years of season tickets over a car. You could have bought your own season tickets. Either your IQ is low or your father is very cheap and you knew he would have bought you a sh$t car.
Some calls YOU out for being a dbag you take a cheap shot at my Father, you proved me right immediately.
You forgot my smiley face. I was just joking. No offense intended. If you took it that way I am sorry. If you read most of my latest posts I am just funning with some people.
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Celts, I think most of us saw it and knew you were joking. PMG's been hypersensitive and hyper-aggressive lately. Must be the downfall of BEB hitting him even harder than we thought it would. I'm just kidding Pat. Oh, and yes, even so I am a dbag. ; )
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Celts, I think most of us saw it and knew you were joking. PMG's been hypersensitive and hyper-aggressive lately. Must be the downfall of BEB hitting him even harder than we thought it would. I'm just kidding Pat. Oh, and yes, even so I am a dbag. ; )
Thanks cranker. It is upsetting enough to get into arguments with people when you mean to but when you don't it is quite disconcerting. PS The guy who called me a dbag had my post all wrong also. Sometimes I think it is a generational thing as most posters seem to be much younger and things seem to get lost in the translation. I too misconstrue things posted by others on occasion.
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Lets all have a great weekend and get some good recruiting news next week.
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Poison. Austin Rivers' Dad is the Boston Celtics head coach (if you didn't know). Are you serious by suggesting Austin Rivers has an "advisor"? If anyone has a handle on where they will be selected in the NBA draft and what life will be like, it's Austin. He'll be a top 15 pick. And I guarantee the Celtics are praying he goes before them because it's not good for anyone, Doc or Austin, if Austin plays for Doc, IMO.
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Poison. Austin Rivers' Dad is the Boston Celtics head coach (if you didn't know). Are you serious by suggesting Austin Rivers has an "advisor"? If anyone has a handle on where they will be selected in the NBA draft and what life will be like, it's Austin. He'll be a top 15 pick. And I guarantee the Celtics are praying he goes before them because it's not good for anyone, Doc or Austin, if Austin plays for Doc, IMO.
I could be wrong, but I think he was referring to Moe's Advisors, since more players declaring for the draft could push Moe into the second round. (Their speculation, not mine).
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Lets all have a great weekend and get some good recruiting news next week.
Cheers to that!
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Lets all have a great weekend and get some good recruiting news next week.
Amen.
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Lets all have a great weekend and get some good recruiting news next week.
PMG have a great weekend my friend. /Talk to you soon.
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Poison. Austin Rivers' Dad is the Boston Celtics head coach (if you didn't know). Are you serious by suggesting Austin Rivers has an "advisor"? If anyone has a handle on where they will be selected in the NBA draft and what life will be like, it's Austin. He'll be a top 15 pick. And I guarantee the Celtics are praying he goes before them because it's not good for anyone, Doc or Austin, if Austin plays for Doc, IMO.
Moe not Austin.
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My bad. Was confused. I agree re moe.
Poison. Austin Rivers' Dad is the Boston Celtics head coach (if you didn't know). Are you serious by suggesting Austin Rivers has an "advisor"? If anyone has a handle on where they will be selected in the NBA draft and what life will be like, it's Austin. He'll be a top 15 pick. And I guarantee the Celtics are praying he goes before them because it's not good for anyone, Doc or Austin, if Austin plays for Doc, IMO.
Moe not Austin.
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Take it for what it's worth...
Chad Ford's Mock Draft 2.0 that came out earlier today has Moe going to Golden State at pick #27
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I'd like my response to the actuality of Moe leaving for the pros to be duly noted. Since it was previosly presumptively postulated by a persistantly petulant poster that upon Moe's hypothetical departure, me/we would respond with a similiarly venomous outrage as Nuri's quitting justly received. Apples and oranges my friends.
Dear Maurice,
Best of luck to you in the league and always. Your aesthetically pleasing, seemingly effortless, silky smooth style will NEVER BE FORGOTTEN by your legion of adoring fans. Your uniquely sublime skill set was an absolute joy to behold. You were a gazelle forced to battle down low with water buffaloes on a personnel challenged team with no head coach, yet your light shone brightly through the fog. You never wavered and came back for more, 40 minute night after night after night. When you severely sprained your ankle late in the season, there was never a question that through sheer force of will,tape, advil and ice, you would play at way less than full strength because that is what the team and situation demanded. While D'lo complained and argued about every single call the entire season, you complained and argued about none.
THANK YOU SO MUCH for this season and for making the at the time very difficult choice of St. John's University.
Very fondly and appreciatively,
Carmine
Carmine - you must have majored in English because you love alliteration - well done ;)
Me? Mostly majored mainly in marketing and management.
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Barnes, Henson, and Marshall all going pro. Suspect all three go in round 1.
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Take it for what it's worth...
Chad Ford's Mock Draft 2.0 that came out earlier today has Moe going to Golden State at pick #27
I've seen such positive thinking surrounding the #27 pick in the draft. Most people have stopped watching by then.
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#27 sounds kind of scary. Any chance he can come back to us
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#27 sounds kind of scary. Any chance he can come back to us
Nada
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There are former SJ's players (pros, and I mean good ones) who think this decision is ridiculous. Are they all fools?
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#27 sounds kind of scary. Any chance he can come back to us
don't worry - no way The
Nets pass Moe at number 16. He's at 22 with Clips on Draft Express. I don't give an S, I would pass on any guys that have shown any bit of character issues up until now. My armchair GM would want to avoid guys that are not team guys. Moe has shown that in buckets, and is a good character guy too.
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#27 sounds kind of scary. Any chance he can come back to us
don't worry - no way The
Nets pass Moe at number 16. He's at 22 with Clips on Draft Express. I don't give an S, I would pass on any guys that have shown any bit of character issues up until now. My armchair GM would want to avoid guys that are not team guys. Moe has shown that in buckets, and is a good character guy too.
You think the Nets, who are trying to fill a new building and have sucked forever, as well as desperately trying to convince Deron Williams to stay. will take Moe at 16 if he's on the board? Moe is a still a project and will not start or play that much for at least a year. Then again, it's the Nets , so anything is possible.
Lots of kids coming out this year. This isn't a news flash though. We all knew that this class would be stacked with talent and so did Moe and his advisors. If it were me, i would have waited, at least, till now and possibly into next week to get a better a handle on who was declaring. Oh well. best of luck.
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]don't worry - no way The
Nets pass Moe at number 16. He's at 22 with Clips on Draft Express. I don't give an S, I would pass on any guys that have shown any bit of character issues up until now. My armchair GM would want to avoid guys that are not team guys. Moe has shown that in buckets, and is a good character guy too.
[/quote]
You think the Nets, who are trying to fill a new building and have sucked forever, as well as desperately trying to convince Deron Williams to stay. will take Moe at 16 if he's on the board? Moe is a still a project and will not start or play that much for at least a year. Then again, it's the Nets , so anything is possible.
Lots of kids coming out this year. This isn't a news flash though. We all knew that this class would be stacked with talent and so did Moe and his advisors. If it were me, i would have waited, at least, till now and possibly into next week to get a better a handle on who was declaring. Oh well. best of luck.
[/quote]
if he stayed another year, like i personally think he should have, where do you project him going in the 2013 draft?
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]don't worry - no way The
Nets pass Moe at number 16. He's at 22 with Clips on Draft Express. I don't give an S, I would pass on any guys that have shown any bit of character issues up until now. My armchair GM would want to avoid guys that are not team guys. Moe has shown that in buckets, and is a good character guy too.
You think the Nets, who are trying to fill a new building and have sucked forever, as well as desperately trying to convince Deron Williams to stay. will take Moe at 16 if he's on the board? Moe is a still a project and will not start or play that much for at least a year. Then again, it's the Nets , so anything is possible.
Lots of kids coming out this year. This isn't a news flash though. We all knew that this class would be stacked with talent and so did Moe and his advisors. If it were me, i would have waited, at least, till now and possibly into next week to get a better a handle on who was declaring. Oh well. best of luck.
if he stayed another year, like i personally think he should have, where do you project him going in the 2013 draft?
on the Draft Express board, I would have projected Moe around 10-12, barring the unforeseen Euro popping up.
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#27 sounds kind of scary. Any chance he can come back to us
don't worry - no way The
Nets pass Moe at number 16. He's at 22 with Clips on Draft Express. I don't give an S, I would pass on any guys that have shown any bit of character issues up until now. My armchair GM would want to avoid guys that are not team guys. Moe has shown that in buckets, and is a good character guy too.
You think the Nets, who are trying to fill a new building and have sucked forever, as well as desperately trying to convince Deron Williams to stay. will take Moe at 16 if he's on the board? Moe is a still a project and will not start or play that much for at least a year. Then again, it's the Nets , so anything is possible.
Lots of kids coming out this year. This isn't a news flash though. We all knew that this class would be stacked with talent and so did Moe and his advisors. If it were me, i would have waited, at least, till now and possibly into next week to get a better a handle on who was declaring. Oh well. best of luck.
Did Mo draw huge throngs to MSG to watch him play. What makes you think he would draw fans to watch him maybe get some PT with the Nets?
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Staying one more year.
High end- #5
Low end- #12
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Definitely seems like coming out early is going to be a mistake for him. Why didn't he wait as long as he could to declare for the draft to see how the rest of the class looked? Seemed like he rushed it a bit when he had up until 4/10 to make his decision. Moe's a smart kid though and I'm sure if he gets drafted later than he expects, he'll use it as motivation in the NBA.
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Why didn't he wait as long as he could to declare for the draft to see how the rest of the class looked?
Two words:
NATE BLUE
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Sometime... when Im on the bus... or in a car... and I start readin sometin... my stomach starts actin up.
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All it takes is one team in order to be drafted high!
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“@jeffborzello: Washington's Terrence Ross will hire an agent, enter NBA draft: http://t.co/fN5h2Cxr (http://t.co/fN5h2Cxr)”
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@“@TheRecruitScoop: Syracuse sophomore center Fab Melo has declared for the 2012 NBA Draft, according to @DraftExpress.”
Guess law school not an option!
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Paultzman - two things- love the screen name, I met The Whooper a few times when I was a little kid, was great..!!
Who gets drafted higher.. Fab Melo or Moe Harkless.?
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Paultzman - two things- love the screen name, I met The Whooper a few times when I was a little kid, was great..!!
Who gets drafted higher.. Fab Melo or Moe Harkless.?
I know your question wasn't directed at me, but DraftExpress does a pretty good job and is up to date with who is in, who is staying. They have Harkless going #22 and Melo going #34. So much can change between now and then but hopefully Moe has some great workouts.
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/ (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/)
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hear you but you cant teach 7ft with good athelticism...
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Paultzman - two things- love the screen name, I met The Whooper a few times when I was a little kid, was great..!!
Who gets drafted higher.. Fab Melo or Moe Harkless.?
IMO Fab
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hear you but you cant teach 7ft with good athelticism...
Good athleticism?
No question he improved tremendously from Fresh to Soph year in that category but to me he still has aways to go there. And competing vs NBA big men is light years tougher than the challenges he faced in College.
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Completely agree--- I feel like Harkless is really in a touhh spot. He is solid at a lot of things but not exceptionally at anything at this point and needs a year m ore of development.
Also, he was showcased this year in a fashion that might not have been available to him at other schools. He doesn't put up thosse numbers this year at other schools and I don't think he puts up those numbers this year if we had all of our players eleigible at the beginning of the year.
I wish the kid all the success in the world and I hope he gets taken in the Lottery but I just think he is going to end of a border line 1st round pick.
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NBA teams may wish to select another available 7'1 center. Who that might be I have no idea.
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NBA teams may wish to select another available 7'1 center. Who that might be I have no idea.
Leonard?
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Completely agree--- I feel like Harkless is really in a touhh spot. He is solid at a lot of things but not exceptionally at anything at this point and needs a year m ore of development.
Also, he was showcased this year in a fashion that might not have been available to him at other schools. He doesn't put up thosse numbers this year at other schools and I don't think he puts up those numbers this year if we had all of our players eleigible at the beginning of the year.
I wish the kid all the success in the world and I hope he gets taken in the Lottery but I just think he is going to end of a border line 1st round pick.
ditto or + 1
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NBA teams may wish to select another available 7'1 center. Who that might be I have no idea.
Leonard?
Leonard has a better overall game, and I'm a big fan of his. I just don't think his frame will fill out enough for him to dominate in any part of the NBA game. I think Melo can be a dominant NBA center on the defensive end. Leonard is a good comparison. Both players made tremendous strides from last year to this year.
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“@PeteThamelNYT: Texas's J’Covan Brown will officially leave and declare for the NBA Draft, according to the school.”
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When will Malik Stith be declaring for the NBA draft? ???
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When will Malik Stith be declaring for the NBA draft? ???
Coach Casey won't let him :)
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As history would have it, stith will land in a mid to low major conference in 2 years and avg 25 plus. Lol. But on another note this is a really strong draft.
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As history would have it, stith will land in a mid to low major conference in 2 years and avg 25 plus. Lol. But on another note this is a really strong draft.
Nah he will land in D2, next year and not have to sit out.
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Am I the only one that doesn't think these recent announcements are going to effect Moe's position much?
The draft analysis I saw all season expected Melo, Rivers, Wroten, Leonard, etc to come out.
Don't know what some guys like a Quincy Miller are going to do, but generally I don't think these announcements move Moe from that 15-25 range.
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Francessa had Majerus on earlier today talking about the Uk kids. Majerus , without being asked or prompted, came right out and said he loves "the kid from St. John's that's coming out". Said what impressed him the most was how hard he played night in and night out on a team that was getting beat up every night. ( He actually said a "bad team")
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I guess it's true that what your record says is who you are because for majerus to say we were a bad team he must of forgotten that just a year ago with a mix of upper clansmen and frosh he was 6-12 in a-10 and 12-19 overall. Compared to 13-19 with 6 players and 6-12 in big east. Fast forward to this past year, 20 plus wins and a tourney birth. A more accurate statement should of been harkless played on a young team with a years experience can become a much better team.
although his statement about harkless is encouraging because the man has coached and coached against a lot of good college basketball players.
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Francessa had Majerus on earlier today talking about the Uk kids. Majerus , without being asked or prompted, came right out and said he loves "the kid from St. John's that's coming out". Said what impressed him the most was how hard he played night in and night out on a team that was getting beat up every night. ( He actually said a "bad team")
Bad is spot on. Terrible is even more spot on.
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Francessa had Majerus on earlier today talking about the Uk kids. Majerus , without being asked or prompted, came right out and said he loves "the kid from St. John's that's coming out". Said what impressed him the most was how hard he played night in and night out on a team that was getting beat up every night. ( He actually said a "bad team")
Bad is spot on. Terrible is even more spot on.
Scary thing is, I'll take this seasons terrible team over many of the terrible Norm teams that may have had a better overall record. I actually enjoyed watching many of the games this season, minus a few true stinkers.
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Francessa had Majerus on earlier today talking about the Uk kids. Majerus , without being asked or prompted, came right out and said he loves "the kid from St. John's that's coming out". Said what impressed him the most was how hard he played night in and night out on a team that was getting beat up every night. ( He actually said a "bad team")
Bad is spot on. Terrible is even more spot on.
Was there a subtle difference? Other than media attention this past season producer the same results as any Norm season. If you want to kid yourself you can say dream about the future, but it's far from secure. Right now, we are looking at another 13-16 win season.
Scary thing is, I'll take this seasons terrible team over many of the terrible Norm teams that may have had a better overall record. I actually enjoyed watching many of the games this season, minus a few true stinkers.
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Was there a difference? In my eyes there was.
Next year we win 18
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Was there a difference? In my eyes there was.
Next year we win 18
We would have, but Moe left. That killed this past season. You can't have a fresh five with 4 guys.
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Was there a difference? In my eyes there was.
Next year we win 18
We would have, but Moe left. That killed this past season. You can't have a fresh five with 4 guys.
If Jakkar is the real deal then we should be better next season. More depth and experience.
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Was there a difference? In my eyes there was.
Next year we win 18
We would have, but Moe left. That killed this past season. You can't have a fresh five with 4 guys.
If Jakkar is the real deal then we should be better next season. More depth and experience.
We have to hope that he'll be able to step right and play at a very high level. That, and we need at least 2 legit big men. It's asking a lot. There are high expectations for Lavin.
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Was there a difference? In my eyes there was.
Next year we win 18
We would have, but Moe left. That killed this past season. You can't have a fresh five with 4 guys.
Alot depends on who else we sign in the next few weeks. Losing Moe hurt alot, but we could still be significantly better.
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Was there a difference? In my eyes there was.
Next year we win 18
If we end up with at least 5 new D-1 bodies (Sampson, Branch, Balamou, and 2 bigs), I'll be disappoined with anything less than 22 wins. We will be running out a squad with legitmate top 75 talent at EVERY position, and likely at least 4 legit D-1 talents off the bench. If we add a legit starting 5 (and I'm pretty confident Lav's will) to go along with a legit top 50 PG in Branch, with Lavin back on the sideline, I think 9 additional wins is an absolute "gimme"....and that's if the 5 returnes simply maintain "status quo". How much D'Angelo, Amir, Dom, Phil and GG IMPROVE over their first year here (and yes, it's the VERY rare player who DOESN'T improve significantly from 1st to 2nd year) will determine if we can be even better than that....
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from your mouth to god's ears. i'll wait to see who we sign first...
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Majerus says Mo played hard night in and night out. Not saying he didn't but wasn't Majerus coaching a team in another conference? How could he be following St J's night in and night out and furthermore why would he? Saw Tony Wroten of Washington vs Minnesota and he takes more wild layup attempts than Nuri did. Only difference is most of Wroten's layup attempts come from 8-10 feet from the basket. Was not impressed.
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Majerus says Mo played hard night in and night out. Not saying he didn't but wasn't Majerus coaching a team in another conference? How could he be following St J's night in and night out and furthermore why would he?
Agreed. Plus sometimes Moe coasted a bit. Its the Robbie Cano in him which I don't mind. But the comment is not correct.
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“@JonRothstein: This bumps the Huskies from my Top 25 RT @percyallen: Tony Wroten Jr. is leaving Washington and will enter the draft.”
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An old buddy of mine (and I mean both that we've been friends a long time, and that we are OLD), is prepping up for his annualy jaunt to the NBA draft. He's hunkering down watching every bit of internet data on every potential draftable kid. He emailed me with an interesting take on Moe Harkless. After seeing the rebouding abllity, jumping ability, and that incredbly quick first step on his drives, my friend says that Moe is "the closest thing he's seen to a young Elgin Baylor in over half a century of watching prospects"....
My friend was in Freedom Hall in Louisville when Elgin's Seatle U team lost in the NCAA title game to Rupp's Kentucky Wildcats in 1958, so when he says "young Elgin", he means it ! :)
I hadn't thought about the comparison. Unfortunately, as a Laker fan, the Elgin I remember is the one from his last 4 years, after the injuries had worn him down, and he'd bulked up to nearly 230 lbs. Had to force myself to remember back to when the Lakers first move out from Minneapolis, and what kind of player Baylor was as a youngster. It's really a good comparison, I think.
(http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2009/11/18/2010302904.jpg)
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An old buddy of mine (and I mean both that we've been friends a long time, and that we are OLD), is prepping up for his annualy jaunt to the NBA draft. He's hunkering down watching every bit of internet data on every potential draftable kid. He emailed me with an interesting take on Moe Harkless. After seeing the rebouding abllity, jumping ability, and that incredbly quick first step on his drives, my friend says that Moe is "the closest thing he's seen to a young Elgin Baylor in over half a century of watching prospects"....
My friend was in Freedom Hall in Louisville when Elgin's Seatle U team lost in the NCAA title game to Rupp's Kentucky Wildcats in 1958, so when he says "young Elgin", he means it ! :)
I hadn't thought about the comparison. Unfortunately, as a Laker fan, the Elgin I remember is the one from his last 4 years, after the injuries had worn him down, and he'd bulked up to nearly 230 lbs. Had to force myself to remember back to when the Lakers first move out from Minneapolis, and what kind of player Baylor was as a youngster. It's really a good comparison, I think.
(http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2009/11/18/2010302904.jpg)
I only know Elgin by reputation and not viewing, but if the comparison is accurate, you have to figure someone else with drafting power will have noticed it, making it a smart move for Moe to have entered the draft.
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An old buddy of mine (and I mean both that we've been friends a long time, and that we are OLD), is prepping up for his annualy jaunt to the NBA draft. He's hunkering down watching every bit of internet data on every potential draftable kid. He emailed me with an interesting take on Moe Harkless. After seeing the rebouding abllity, jumping ability, and that incredbly quick first step on his drives, my friend says that Moe is "the closest thing he's seen to a young Elgin Baylor in over half a century of watching prospects"....
My friend was in Freedom Hall in Louisville when Elgin's Seatle U team lost in the NCAA title game to Rupp's Kentucky Wildcats in 1958, so when he says "young Elgin", he means it ! :)
I hadn't thought about the comparison. Unfortunately, as a Laker fan, the Elgin I remember is the one from his last 4 years, after the injuries had worn him down, and he'd bulked up to nearly 230 lbs. Had to force myself to remember back to when the Lakers first move out from Minneapolis, and what kind of player Baylor was as a youngster. It's really a good comparison, I think.
(http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2009/11/18/2010302904.jpg)
I only know Elgin by reputation and not viewing, but if the comparison is accurate, you have to figure someone else with drafting power will have noticed it, making it a smart move for Moe to have entered the draft.
Up till 3 /2 years ago, it might have been the original Big E noticing - he was the Clippers Exec VP and GM for 22 years, till he was forced to resign at 74 years old in 2008. He took a lot of grief because the Clips owner Donald Sterling is such a jerk, sabotaging all attempts to build a team (power of the purse string), but Elg had a pretty darn good history of draft picks in his 22 years: Reggie Williams, Hersey Hawkins, Danny Manning, Danny Ferry, Loy Vaught, Bo Kimble, LeRon Ellis, Elmore Spencer, Randy Woods, Terry Dehere, Greg Minor, Lamond Murray, Antonio McDyess, Lorenzen Wright, Maurice Tayler, Brian Skinner, Michael Oliwakandi, Lamar Odom, Quentin Richzrdson, Darius Miles, Tyson Chandler, Melvin Ely, Chris WIlcox, Shaun Livingston, Chris Kaman, Al Thornton, and Eric Gordon.
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Saw a lot of Elgin and I don't see the similarities. He was much shorter than Moe but was known for his hang time and creativity around the hoop. Moe is probably going to be more of a perimeter in slasher in the league. Was talking to my NBA guy last night. He noted that a lot of so called 6'8" guys turn out to be 6'6 1/2 when they show up for workouts. He said it will be the opposite with Moe and said he could wind up going ninth depending on team needs and draft IQs. He also predicted he'll go no worse than 20th as is. We'll see.
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I have been very vocal in saying Moe should have stayed another year but last night I was talking to some people with NBA ties and they all think Moe is a lock for the mid first round and will be a very good player in the league.
I hope they are right..!!
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An old buddy of mine (and I mean both that we've been friends a long time, and that we are OLD), is prepping up for his annualy jaunt to the NBA draft. He's hunkering down watching every bit of internet data on every potential draftable kid. He emailed me with an interesting take on Moe Harkless. After seeing the rebouding abllity, jumping ability, and that incredbly quick first step on his drives, my friend says that Moe is "the closest thing he's seen to a young Elgin Baylor in over half a century of watching prospects"....
My friend was in Freedom Hall in Louisville when Elgin's Seatle U team lost in the NCAA title game to Rupp's Kentucky Wildcats in 1958, so when he says "young Elgin", he means it ! :)
I hadn't thought about the comparison. Unfortunately, as a Laker fan, the Elgin I remember is the one from his last 4 years, after the injuries had worn him down, and he'd bulked up to nearly 230 lbs. Had to force myself to remember back to when the Lakers first move out from Minneapolis, and what kind of player Baylor was as a youngster. It's really a good comparison, I think.
(http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2009/11/18/2010302904.jpg)
I only know Elgin by reputation and not viewing, but if the comparison is accurate, you have to figure someone else with drafting power will have noticed it, making it a smart move for Moe to have entered the draft.
Up till 3 /2 years ago, it might have been the original Big E noticing - he was the Clippers Exec VP and GM for 22 years, till he was forced to resign at 74 years old in 2008. He took a lot of grief because the Clips owner Donald Sterling is such a jerk, sabotaging all attempts to build a team (power of the purse string), but Elg had a pretty darn good history of draft picks in his 22 years: Reggie Williams, Hersey Hawkins, Danny Manning, Danny Ferry, Loy Vaught, Bo Kimble, LeRon Ellis, Elmore Spencer, Randy Woods, Terry Dehere, Greg Minor, Lamond Murray, Antonio McDyess, Lorenzen Wright, Maurice Tayler, Brian Skinner, Michael Oliwakandi, Lamar Odom, Quentin Richzrdson, Darius Miles, Tyson Chandler, Melvin Ely, Chris WIlcox, Shaun Livingston, Chris Kaman, Al Thornton, and Eric Gordon.
You forgot the future hall of famer, Benoit Benjamin :D I guess you omitted him for a reason.
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I have been very vocal in saying Moe should have stayed another year but last night I was talking to some people with NBA ties and they all think Moe is a lock for the mid first round and will be a very good player in the league.
I hope they are right..!!
Are you sure you weren't talking to Bobre ;)
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Are you sure you weren't talking to Bobre
I can say with out question, I have never had the pleasure.
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Saw a lot of Elgin and I don't see the similarities. He was much shorter than Moe but was known for his hang time and creativity around the hoop. Moe is probably going to be more of a perimeter in slasher in the league. Was talking to my NBA guy last night. He noted that a lot of so called 6'8" guys turn out to be 6'6 1/2 when they show up for workouts. He said it will be the opposite with Moe and said he could wind up going ninth depending on team needs and draft IQs. He also predicted he'll go no worse than 20th as is. We'll see.
I agree about Elgin Baylor. Completely different body type, different mentality, different game.
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An old buddy of mine (and I mean both that we've been friends a long time, and that we are OLD), is prepping up for his annualy jaunt to the NBA draft. He's hunkering down watching every bit of internet data on every potential draftable kid. He emailed me with an interesting take on Moe Harkless. After seeing the rebouding abllity, jumping ability, and that incredbly quick first step on his drives, my friend says that Moe is "the closest thing he's seen to a young Elgin Baylor in over half a century of watching prospects"....
My friend was in Freedom Hall in Louisville when Elgin's Seatle U team lost in the NCAA title game to Rupp's Kentucky Wildcats in 1958, so when he says "young Elgin", he means it ! :)
I hadn't thought about the comparison. Unfortunately, as a Laker fan, the Elgin I remember is the one from his last 4 years, after the injuries had worn him down, and he'd bulked up to nearly 230 lbs. Had to force myself to remember back to when the Lakers first move out from Minneapolis, and what kind of player Baylor was as a youngster. It's really a good comparison, I think.
(http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2009/11/18/2010302904.jpg)
I only know Elgin by reputation and not viewing, but if the comparison is accurate, you have to figure someone else with drafting power will have noticed it, making it a smart move for Moe to have entered the draft.
Up till 3 /2 years ago, it might have been the original Big E noticing - he was the Clippers Exec VP and GM for 22 years, till he was forced to resign at 74 years old in 2008. He took a lot of grief because the Clips owner Donald Sterling is such a jerk, sabotaging all attempts to build a team (power of the purse string), but Elg had a pretty darn good history of draft picks in his 22 years: Reggie Williams, Hersey Hawkins, Danny Manning, Danny Ferry, Loy Vaught, Bo Kimble, LeRon Ellis, Elmore Spencer, Randy Woods, Terry Dehere, Greg Minor, Lamond Murray, Antonio McDyess, Lorenzen Wright, Maurice Tayler, Brian Skinner, Michael Oliwakandi, Lamar Odom, Quentin Richzrdson, Darius Miles, Tyson Chandler, Melvin Ely, Chris WIlcox, Shaun Livingston, Chris Kaman, Al Thornton, and Eric Gordon.
You forgot the future hall of famer, Benoit Benjamin :D I guess you omitted him for a reason.
Elg became GM in 1986. Benoit was the Clippers #1 pick in 1985. FYI, big Ben averaged 14pts 9 rebs in his 6 seasons as a Clipper. While you hope for a hall of famer, most GMs would be more than happy to get that from their first rounder.
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Saw a lot of Elgin and I don't see the similarities. He was much shorter than Moe but was known for his hang time and creativity around the hoop. Moe is probably going to be more of a perimeter in slasher in the league. Was talking to my NBA guy last night. He noted that a lot of so called 6'8" guys turn out to be 6'6 1/2 when they show up for workouts. He said it will be the opposite with Moe and said he could wind up going ninth depending on team needs and draft IQs. He also predicted he'll go no worse than 20th as is. We'll see.
I agree about Elgin Baylor. Completely different body type, different mentality, different game.
Derk, unless you saw him in High School in DC, or at his first college, I think you're picturing the 25 -35 year old fully developed Baylor, not the 18-19 year long and lean kid. (and 6'5 1/2 55 years ago WAS as tall as a 6'8 kid today comparatively). I have no idea WHAT Mo's body type will be in 2019-2030. Unforntuately for comparison, there are no surviving photos of Elgins frosh/soph year at College of Idaho. Nor from his year off transferring to Seattle U. The only photos are from 1958, and he was 23 1/2 years old vs Ky in the NCAA title game - 5 years older than Mo. And he was still pretty long and lean at that age.
(http://sportspressnw.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Elgin-Baylor-at-the-hoop.jpg)(http://www.nypost.com/r/nypost/blogs/zach_braziller/201005/Curtis-FH10--415x615.jpg)
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McAdoo staying in College helps out Moe
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McAdoo staying in College helps out Moe
So does DeShaun Thomas of OSU who announced he will return to Columbus for his Junior year.
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McAdoo staying in College helps out Moe
So does DeShaun Thomas of OSU who announced he will return to Columbus for his Junior year.
Another smart move and another 1st team All American next year
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“@TheRecruitScoop: RT @GoodmanCBS: Texas A&M junior forward Khris Middleton is declaring for the 2012 NBA Draft.”
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“@TheRecruitScoop: RT @GoodmanCBS: Texas A&M junior forward Khris Middleton is declaring for the 2012 NBA Draft.”
And she's on the women's team! :) :) :) ( Referencing the high # of underclassmen declaring for NBA draft-not meant to offend anyone for any sensitive types-because I am not really familiar with him).
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Saw a lot of Elgin and I don't see the similarities. He was much shorter than Moe but was known for his hang time and creativity around the hoop. Moe is probably going to be more of a perimeter in slasher in the league. Was talking to my NBA guy last night. He noted that a lot of so called 6'8" guys turn out to be 6'6 1/2 when they show up for workouts. He said it will be the opposite with Moe and said he could wind up going ninth depending on team needs and draft IQs. He also predicted he'll go no worse than 20th as is. We'll see.
I agree about Elgin Baylor. Completely different body type, different mentality, different game.
Derk, unless you saw him in High School in DC, or at his first college, I think you're picturing the 25 -35 year old fully developed Baylor, not the 18-19 year long and lean kid. (and 6'5 1/2 55 years ago WAS as tall as a 6'8 kid today comparatively). I have no idea WHAT Mo's body type will be in 2019-2030. Unforntuately for comparison, there are no surviving photos of Elgins frosh/soph year at College of Idaho. Nor from his year off transferring to Seattle U. The only photos are from 1958, and he was 23 1/2 years old vs Ky in the NCAA title game - 5 years older than Mo. And he was still pretty long and lean at that age.
(http://sportspressnw.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Elgin-Baylor-at-the-hoop.jpg)(http://www.nypost.com/r/nypost/blogs/zach_braziller/201005/Curtis-FH10--415x615.jpg)
Talking about Moe and comparing him to anyone from the 50's - 60's can be difficult . You mentioned one of the differences being a 6"5 Baylor size wise might be the equivalent of a 6"8" player today.
No I was referring to the pro Baylor against a Moe we don't yet know. But I just don't see Moe as developing the attacking style that the Elg had. Or be the pro rebounder Baylor was. I see Moe more of a Rudy Gay type.
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“@TheRecruitScoop: Baylor sophomore forward Perry Jones will enter the 2012 NBA Draft, while Michigan freshman guard Trey Burke has decided to return to school”
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“@TheRecruitScoop: Baylor sophomore forward Perry Jones will enter the 2012 NBA Draft, while Michigan freshman guard Trey Burke has decided to return to school”
Burke was quick
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Funny too perhaps in a panic move Beilein got a commitment from an under the radar PG a few days ago shortly after Burke announced.
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DraftXpress has Moe at 21 to the Grizzlies.
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“@NorthstarBball: Good stuff from Lehigh's CJ McCollum on why he is returning to school for his senior year . . . http://t.co/7FO92zlL (http://t.co/7FO92zlL)”
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USA Today's first Mock has Moe going 19 to the Nets. I'm sure that would be the ideal situation for him and his family. Would be fun for us fans to be able to watch all of his games too.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012-04-10/USA-TODAY-Sports-first-NBA-mock-draft/54153600/1 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012-04-10/USA-TODAY-Sports-first-NBA-mock-draft/54153600/1)
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Are there no good foreign players coming over this year..? Every Mock Draft I have seen has none.
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Are there no good foreign players coming over this year..? Every Mock Draft I have seen has none.
Draft Express has 6 international players in their mock...
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/ (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/)
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Are there no good foreign players coming over this year..? Every Mock Draft I have seen has none.
Draft Express has 6 international players in their mock...
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/ (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/)
Only 1 projected in 1st round and 2 within the first 12 picks of the 2nd.
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Chad Ford now has Moe going 26th to the Cavs.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/7793955/nba-mock-draft-version-3 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/7793955/nba-mock-draft-version-3)
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.“@AdamZagoria: Anthony Davis, Terrence Jones & Marquis Teague all coming out, source confirms to @SNYtv. Would expect MKG & Lamb, too.”.
Obviously no surprise!
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Moe was hanging with Fab Melo the other day working out together.
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“@AdamZagoria: Former #stjbb freshman Moe Harkless will sign with @Happywalters within a week, sources tell @SNYtv. Walters is also agent for @Amareisreal”
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“@AdamZagoria: Former #stjbb freshman Moe Harkless will sign with @Happywalters within a week, sources tell @SNYtv. Walters is also agent for @Amareisreal”
awesome
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1139862-2012-nba-mock-draft-late-first-round-gems-you-need-to-know (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1139862-2012-nba-mock-draft-late-first-round-gems-you-need-to-know)
8. Philadelphia 76ers: Moe Harkless, PF, St, John's
I love Moe Harkless' game; he reminds me of a slightly more athletic Shareef Abdur-Rahim. He could play the SF, but either forward spot is a possibility.
The best comparison I heard so far I don't know why I didn't see this
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1139862-2012-nba-mock-draft-late-first-round-gems-you-need-to-know (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1139862-2012-nba-mock-draft-late-first-round-gems-you-need-to-know)
8. Philadelphia 76ers: Moe Harkless, PF, St, John's
I love Moe Harkless' game; he reminds me of a slightly more athletic Shareef Abdur-Rahim. He could play the SF, but either forward spot is a possibility.
The best comparison I heard so far I don't know why I didn't see this
That's 18 not 8
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Drummand over davis? no way
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Anthony Davis, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Among Kentucky Players To Declare For 2012 NBA Draft (VIDEO)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/18/anthony-davis-kidd-gilchrist-kentucky-nba-draft-2012_n_1434075.html?1334761971&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/18/anthony-davis-kidd-gilchrist-kentucky-nba-draft-2012_n_1434075.html?1334761971&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000008)
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In regards to Anthony Davis.. . there is no denying his incredible talent but I would hesitant with a kid who was starting have his knees bothering him a little at 18.
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In regards to Anthony Davis.. . there is no denying his incredible talent but I would hesitant with a kid who was starting have his knees bothering him a little at 18.
Well, he'd be a perfect first rounder for Portland! Walton to Bowie to Oden to Davis? :)
But it's still a gamble worth taking - Walton got them the NBA title and their only league MVP, and as bad as his knees were since high school, it was his feet that derailed his pro career, not his knees.
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In regards to Anthony Davis.. . there is no denying his incredible talent but I would hesitant with a kid who was starting have his knees bothering him a little at 18.
Well, he'd be a perfect first rounder for Portland! Walton to Bowie to Oden to Davis? :)
But it's still a gamble worth taking - Walton got them the NBA title and their only league MVP, and as bad as his knees were since high school, it was his feet that derailed his pro career, not his knees.
Portland has had so much bad luck drafting center's
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Walton got them the NBA title and their only league MVP, and as bad as his knees were since high school, it was his feet that derailed his pro career, not his knees.
Saw him in the city a few years ago and realize how badly he is hobbled, the guy was walking at a snails pace and you could tell it was fast as he could move.
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Well, they can't complain too much about Walton (a ring is a ring), but the others must be pure pain for for Portland fans
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But it's still a gamble worth taking - Walton got them the NBA title and their only league MVP, and as bad as his knees were since high school, it was his feet that derailed his pro career, not his knees.
If I had the power to give one player a completely pain-free career, I think it would have been Walton.
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But it's still a gamble worth taking - Walton got them the NBA title and their only league MVP, and as bad as his knees were since high school, it was his feet that derailed his pro career, not his knees.
If I had the power to give one player a completely pain-free career, I think it would have been Walton.
Hes way before my time but my Father always tells me he may have been the best center ever if it wasnt for his injuries
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He would have made Russel work.
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Great all around skills but could never hold Jabbar under 35. ;D
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Back to Mo. Knows how finish. I would sell him as the next Hawk
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Great all around skills but could never hold Jabbar under 35. ;D
Saw the smiley - but some of the younger posters might not know. Bill (the healthy young one) regularly held Kareem in the 20s - That's how Portland was able to come out of the pacific and win their only NBA title with Bill. Kareem has written than Bill Walton and Nate Thurmond were the toughest defensive centers he ever faced (Nate - over the years has become the 2nd most underrated center of all time to me - next to the great Mel Daniels).
That being said, Kareem is still the Best that ever was. No one has ever been AS good as LONG as Kareem Abdul Jabbar. The guy was NBA Finals MVP at age 38. ALL NBA First team at age 39. He was an NBA All-Star at age 42.
Whenever someone asks me if I think Kareem was better than Russell or Chamberlain, I say "Yeah. 6 YEARS better than Chamberlain, 7 years better than Russell." Russ retired after 13 years, Chamberain after 14 years. AFTER his 14th season, Kareem won THREE NBA Championships. And during those first 13 years? Just had more points, rebounds and blocks than anyone in the NBA over those 14 years. Oh, and racked up 3 other NBA Championships, and 6 NBA MVP awards. His sustained excellence is unmatched in hoops history. Tho what Steve Nash is producing this year at 38 (over 12 assists a game) is pretty impressive.
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Great all around skills but could never hold Jabbar under 35. ;D
Saw the smiley - but some of the younger posters might not know. Bill (the healthy young one) regularly held Kareem in the 20s - That's how Portland was able to come out of the pacific and win their only NBA title with Bill. Kareem has written than Bill Walton and Nate Thurmond were the toughest defensive centers he ever faced (Nate - over the years has become the 2nd most underrated center of all time to me - next to the great Mel Daniels).
That being said, Kareem is still the Best that ever was. No one has ever been AS good as LONG as Kareem Abdul Jabbar. The guy was NBA Finals MVP at age 38. ALL NBA First team at age 39. He was an NBA All-Star at age 42.
Whenever someone asks me if I think Kareem was better than Russell or Chamberlain, I say "Yeah. 6 YEARS better than Chamberlain, 7 years better than Russell." Russ retired after 13 years, Chamberain after 14 years. AFTER his 14th season, Kareem won THREE NBA Championships. And during those first 13 years? Just had more points, rebounds and blocks than anyone in the NBA over those 14 years. Oh, and racked up 3 other NBA Championships, and 6 NBA MVP awards. His sustained excellence is unmatched in hoops history. Tho what Steve Nash is producing this year at 38 (over 12 assists a game) is pretty impressive.
And what was also remarkable was how he single took Milwaukee from cellar dwellar to champ upon joining the team
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Great all around skills but could never hold Jabbar under 35. ;D
Saw the smiley - but some of the younger posters might not know. Bill (the healthy young one) regularly held Kareem in the 20s - That's how Portland was able to come out of the pacific and win their only NBA title with Bill. Kareem has written than Bill Walton and Nate Thurmond were the toughest defensive centers he ever faced (Nate - over the years has become the 2nd most underrated center of all time to me - next to the great Mel Daniels).
That being said, Kareem is still the Best that ever was. No one has ever been AS good as LONG as Kareem Abdul Jabbar. The guy was NBA Finals MVP at age 38. ALL NBA First team at age 39. He was an NBA All-Star at age 42.
Whenever someone asks me if I think Kareem was better than Russell or Chamberlain, I say "Yeah. 6 YEARS better than Chamberlain, 7 years better than Russell." Russ retired after 13 years, Chamberain after 14 years. AFTER his 14th season, Kareem won THREE NBA Championships. And during those first 13 years? Just had more points, rebounds and blocks than anyone in the NBA over those 14 years. Oh, and racked up 3 other NBA Championships, and 6 NBA MVP awards. His sustained excellence is unmatched in hoops history. Tho what Steve Nash is producing this year at 38 (over 12 assists a game) is pretty impressive.
And what was also remarkable was how he single took Milwaukee from cellar dwellar to champ upon joining the team
Tho credit where credit is due - that guy Oscar helped a bit, too. And there are guys in the hall of fame with WORSE numbers than Bobby Dandridge. :)
Championship team built from scratch in 3 years. They got the sweet shooting guard they'd need in Jon McGlocklin in the Expansion draft of 1968 from the Rockets. In that 1st regular draft that year, they picked the steady SF they'd need in Greg Smith. And traded rookie guard John Arthurs to the Suns for backup center Dick "Cement Mixer" Cunningham. Then they made themselves major contenders for 1970 by drafting Kareem and Dandrige in the '69 draft. But some GREAT front office moves after that season made them Champions in 1971. They traded backup center Charlie Paulk and point guard Flynn Robinson to Cincinnatti for Oscar Robertson. Then they traded starting PF Don Smith (Zaid Abdul-Aziz) to the Supersonics for aging PF Bob Boozer, and guard Lucius Allen (3rd pick after Alcindor and Neal Walk in the '69 draft). To lock it all up, wth a month to go in the title season, they traded their Rookie first round pick 6'9 Gary Freeman to Cleveland for an experienced solid backup PF in McCoy McLemore. They KEPT 2nd round pick guard Billy Zopf out of Duquesne. And suddenly you had a solid and deep Championship team in just 3 seasons.
Kareem with 40+ minutes at center, with grabage time by Cunningham.
Bobby Dandridge at one forward getting 18 pts and 9 boards, backed by Bob Boozer and McCoy Mclemore
Greg Smith getting 30 minutes at SF, with Dandrige sliding down when he went out.
Jon McGlocklin getting 17 pts a game shooting 54% from the field at the SG, backed by Lucius Allen
Oscar getting 19 pts a game and 9 assists at the Point, backed by Lucius and Zopf.
Kareem would stay with the Bucks for 6 seasons before forcing the trade to LA. It's a testment to how great he was that the Bucks COULDN'T recover from losing him. Because what they got for him, in todays market WOULD make, say, the Cleveland Cavaliers contenders: 7'0 Elmore Smith (best year 17 pts 15 rebs, led league in blocks, career 13/11/3), 6'9 David Meyers (best year 14pts 7 rebs, career 11/6), 6'5 Junior Bridgeman (best year 17pts 5 rebs, career 13/4), and 6'4 Brian Winters (best year 20pts 5 assists, career 16/4).
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Great all around skills but could never hold Jabbar under 35. ;D
Saw the smiley - but some of the younger posters might not know. Bill (the healthy young one) regularly held Kareem in the 20s - That's how Portland was able to come out of the pacific and win their only NBA title with Bill. Kareem has written than Bill Walton and Nate Thurmond were the toughest defensive centers he ever faced (Nate - over the years has become the 2nd most underrated center of all time to me - next to the great Mel Daniels).
That being said, Kareem is still the Best that ever was. No one has ever been AS good as LONG as Kareem Abdul Jabbar. The guy was NBA Finals MVP at age 38. ALL NBA First team at age 39. He was an NBA All-Star at age 42.
Whenever someone asks me if I think Kareem was better than Russell or Chamberlain, I say "Yeah. 6 YEARS better than Chamberlain, 7 years better than Russell." Russ retired after 13 years, Chamberain after 14 years. AFTER his 14th season, Kareem won THREE NBA Championships. And during those first 13 years? Just had more points, rebounds and blocks than anyone in the NBA over those 14 years. Oh, and racked up 3 other NBA Championships, and 6 NBA MVP awards. His sustained excellence is unmatched in hoops history. Tho what Steve Nash is producing this year at 38 (over 12 assists a game) is pretty impressive.
And what was also remarkable was how he single took Milwaukee from cellar dwellar to champ upon joining the team
Not quite by himself, he had Oscar Robertson, Bobby Dandridge, Lucius Allen, and Jon Mc Glocklin on his team. They did not win the championship until Oscar joined them.
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Quantoid analysis is not always correct as it would confuse longevity with greatness (do you want Koufax or that other Dodger pitcher whose name I forget who won 300 without ever winning 20 in a season?) Kareem was terrific but Russell who I first saw live at MSG in 1957 was a whole different cup of tea. Kareem was a wonderfully reliable part of teams led by others. Russell was both the engine and the steering for ten championship teams that were shaped around his intensity, defensive presence, and total court awareness.
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Kareem not the shot blocker or rebounder that some of the other great centers were. Longevity not a good argument to say greatest ever-is 49 yr okd Jamie Moyer the greatest pitcher ever?
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Quantoid analysis is not always correct as it would confuse longevity with greatness (do you want Koufax or that other Dodger pitcher whose name I forget who won 300 without ever winning 20 in a season?) Kareem was terrific but Russell who I first saw live at MSG in 1957 was a whole different cup of tea. Kareem was a wonderfully reliable part of teams led by others. Russell was both the engine and the steering for ten championship teams that were shaped around his intensity, defensive presence, and total court awareness.
AND, it should be mentioned, having as many as EIGHT other Hall of Famers on the same roster :) One year his teammates included Bob Cousy, Tom Heinsohn, KC Jones, Sam Jones, Satch Sanders, Frank Ramsey, Clyde Lovlette, and John Havlichek --- with Bill, that made 9 future Hall of Famers. He never won a title with less than SIX Hall of Famers in the lineup.
I too think he's one of the best that ever was - but because of his offensive limitations (career 15 pts a game, career 44% FGs, career 56% Fts), I have him as "only" the 3rd best center ever. But hey, I'm so old, that I have Bob Kurland in my top 10! :)
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Figured we would agree to disagree on this one and we both know that Kareem never had any HoF teammates. What gets me is that as a Celtics fan since 1957 (with two years off of throwing up under Pitino and anxiety dissorder under Y John Brown) I still can not think of a power forward better than Bob Pettit.
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Lol compared Kareem to Jamie that was funny! Anyway saw this on the net yesterday
http://nbadraft.net/nba-draft-positional-battles-direct-competitors (http://nbadraft.net/nba-draft-positional-battles-direct-competitors)
Moe Harkless vs. Terrence Jones
Theme: Combo-Forwards
These guys have the size, athleticism and mobility to play both the 3 and the 4. Put em' on the perimeter or let em' work the post.
Harkless is smooth, and can generally operate from any spot on the floor. He's an excellent, fluid athlete that scores off tip-ins, awkward angles or in transition. Jones plays a similar game, with a more accomplished outside stroke but a motor that sparks widespread debate. Playing two years of collegiate ball is like an eternity these days, and Jones' impact has been flushed out at times thanks to a deep rotation of pro prospects.
Both guys have very similar outlooks, but Harkless' ceiling appears higher. Though it could be a few years before he becomes a consistent contributor, I'm going with Harkless over Jones. Although if you feel otherwise, I ain't mad at'cha.
I can see them getting match up in pre draft work outs. I hope Moe put on some weight for that match up.
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Shaq was the greatest center ever.
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Shaq was the greatest center ever.
Him and Avery "No longer the single season three point record holder" Patterson on a team together would have been deadly.
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Mos putting in the work. Hopefully he shoots like this during his workouts.
Moe Harkless And Fab Melo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzXI_8YDJFQ#ws)
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Mos putting in the work. Hopefully he shoots like this during his workouts.
Moe Harkless And Fab Melo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzXI_8YDJFQ#ws)
Add him to the pieces where putting in this year I woulda called an elite 8 run
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Quincy Miller declared yesterday. That hurts Mo. I know it could happen, but I don't see how any GM could take Moe over Q.
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Shaq was the greatest center ever.
Him and Avery "No longer the single season three point record holder" Patterson on a team together would have been deadly.
Good one. ;D
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Quincy Miller declared yesterday. That hurts Mo. I know it could happen, but I don't see how any GM could take Moe over Q.
We've gone over this one before Marillac, I think the exact opposite. Gentleman's bet?
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Moe was looking good in that Youtube clip^^^^^^
http://instagr.am/p/JU6yNPvv3_/ (http://instagr.am/p/JU6yNPvv3_/)
Moe & Yung Mase at IMG
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But it's still a gamble worth taking - Walton got them the NBA title and their only league MVP, and as bad as his knees were since high school, it was his feet that derailed his pro career, not his knees.
If I had the power to give one player a completely pain-free career, I think it would have been Walton.
Hes way before my time but my Father always tells me he may have been the best center ever if it wasnt for his injuries
Your father was right.
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Quincy Miller declared yesterday. That hurts Mo.
Gerardo Suero declared yesterday. That hurts me. I'm devastated.
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Derrick Rose and Iman Shumpert---- the reason I will never fault any kid for declaring for the draft. Career can be too fragile. Go get that money, kids.
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Yup! + 1
Fans perspective is meaningless .
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Kareem not the shot blocker or rebounder that some of the other great centers were. Longevity not a good argument to say greatest ever-is 49 yr okd Jamie Moyer the greatest pitcher ever?
Hard to argue with you. for instance, no one will EVER top Chamberlains performance with the Warriors. His 6 year Warriors career was 41.5 pts per game and 25.2 rebounds over 429 games.
But as for rebounding/shot blocking, I would disagree with you in terms of era's of play. Russell was retired before Kareem joined the league. Chamerlain/Kareem only overlapped 4 seasons. Neither Russell or Chamberlain played a single game when the NBA tracked Blocked shots. All you can do for Kareem is measure him against his contemporaries. He led the league in blocks 4 times, was 2nd 3 times, and 3rd 1 time. 23 years after he retired, he's still #3 all time. In his 14th season, the point in their respective careers both Bill and Wilt had retired, he was 3rd in blocks per game. He's 8th all time in that category, despite playing over 20 years in the league. As for rebounding, again, eras. He's #3 in league history in rebounds behind Bill and Wilt, yes due to his longevity. But also because rebouding changed with the eras - he was in the top 3 in rebounding in the league 7 different seasons. When Wilt and Bill were pulling down 20+ rebs a game, 6'5 Elgin Baylor was doing the same. When Kareem led the leauge pulling down 16.9 rebs a game, Wes Unseld and Paul Silas were 2nd and 3rd at 13.3 and 12.7 rebs respectively.
But I do get the point. Sometimes stats are irrelevant. Somethings can't be quantified. If you SAW them, you don't HAVE to explain why Sandy Koufax was the greatest pitcher or that Secretariat was the greatest racehorse. If you saw them, you just KNOW. :)
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Derrick Rose and Iman Shumpert---- the reason I will never fault any kid for declaring for the draft. Career can be too fragile. Go get that money, kids.
Iroically both of those guys left early. I love how competiitive Rose is. I hope he doesn't lose a step...I've really started to like him as a player after watching four grown men dance around like middle school girls at the all-star game intros while Rose just stood there ready to play, probably wondering why they weren't taking it seriously.
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Derrick Rose and Iman Shumpert---- the reason I will never fault any kid for declaring for the draft. Career can be too fragile. Go get that money, kids.
Iroically both of those guys left early. I love how competiitive Rose is. I hope he doesn't lose a step...I've really started to like him as a player after watching four grown men dance around like middle school girls at the all-star game intros while Rose just stood there ready to play, probably wondering why they weren't taking it seriously.
Agreed. DRose is not your typical, selfish NBA superstar. Hope he makes a full recovery. Would have been a great representative for the Olympic team as well. NBA needs more guys like Rose.
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nbadraft.net now has Moe at #18 to the TWolves. Slowly moving up the board. With Beasley a restricted FA, this could be a great place for him, with Love and Pekovic entrenched at the PF and C, allowing Harkless to be played as a 3, or if they go small they could use Harkless at 4 and Love at C.
That said, more than anything, the Wolves need a SG, so I am not sure this will really turn out. With the Celtics having a block of picks at 21/22 and Ainge loving taking younger players and those with potential who may have come out too early (Rondo, Perkins, Gerald Green, Avery Bradley, etc.) I think there's no way Harkless goes past 22.
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One of the latest has Moe being drafted #8 by Pistons. If that is the case, he made a great decision. I don't think an NBA team can miss with Moe. Productive years ahead for him.
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One of the latest has Moe being drafted #8 by Pistons. If that is the case, he made a great decision. I don't think an NBA team can miss with Moe. Productive years ahead for him.
8 would be great, but not realistic given the strength of this draft class. Ford has Moe going at 25. Who knows, Moe might have a great showing at the combine and jack his stock way up, or could just as easily fall out of the first round.
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nbadraft.net now has Moe at #18 to the TWolves. Slowly moving up the board. With Beasley a restricted FA, this could be a great place for him, with Love and Pekovic entrenched at the PF and C, allowing Harkless to be played as a 3, or if they go small they could use Harkless at 4 and Love at C.
That said, more than anything, the Wolves need a SG, so I am not sure this will really turn out. With the Celtics having a block of picks at 21/22 and Ainge loving taking younger players and those with potential who may have come out too early (Rondo, Perkins, Gerald Green, Avery Bradley, etc.) I think there's no way Harkless goes past 22.
Agree dont see moe going past 22. Celtics would be a good fit but unfortunate for a NY kid :/.
The twovles did take Derick Williams with the 2nd overall pick last year so I dont see them taking moe.
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Chad Ford has him going 24 to the Cavs in today's Mock. Kyrie Irving, Brad Beal (taken 3rd),Moe, Tristan Thompson and Anderson Varejao would be a solid foundation for the Cavs.
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I know I really know nothing as merely a fan with no inside info, but I honestly could not see the Celtics not using one of two picks on him at 21 and 22. Ainge has a history with early enrollees, and if Rondo is the future of the Celtics, Moe is exactly the type of player you want running with Rondo -- a gazelle.
I personally expect Moe to go around 15 when this is all said and done.
And amase, good call with derrick williams - totally forgot about him.
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Good article from David Aldridge with some quotes from NBA execs praising Harkless. Has him as the 3rd best SF.
Harkless won Big East Rookie of the Year honors, averaging 15.5 points and 8.6 rebounds for the Red Storm. His 32 points in his conference debut against Providence set a conference record for scoring in a player's first Big East game, bettering marks set by Georgetown's Allen Iverson and Notre Dame's Troy Murphy.
An athletic 6-foot-8, Harkless is an even worse 3-point shooter than Kidd-Gilchrist (21.5 percent). But Harkless was on a preposterously young St. John's team -- he was one of nine freshmen who played for coach Steve Lavin -- and he was one of the best players on that team. Despite the Red Storm's 13-19 record, Harkless made an impression.
"For me, the most talented guy (after Kidd-Gilchrist and Barnes) is probably Harkless," said a Western Conference general manager. "He's got size, he's got length, he rebounds. He played out of position all year, which for him will be an adjustment. He can catch and shoot, at least. He's got a lot of long term upside. He's still really, really young. He produced in a good league and he had to play out of position. He's got some long term potential."
A Central Division exec seconds that emotion, saying, "of all the guys that put their name in early, he's the most intriguing to me."
Like most players coming out of college, Harkless would do better not going to a bad team. Scouts are worried about his ability to guard in space and off the dribble. He will also be making the adjustment from college power forward to NBA small forward.
"I've got him ahead of Taylor and Green and Joseph," said the Atlantic executive. "He'll be drafted ahead of those guys. Big upside. If you get him in the early 20s or something, that has a good team and can work with him, that's a good pick."
http://www.nba.com/news/features/david_aldridge/big-board-small-forwards/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1 (http://www.nba.com/news/features/david_aldridge/big-board-small-forwards/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1)
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Good article from David Aldridge with some quotes from NBA execs praising Harkless. Has him as the 3rd best SF.
Harkless won Big East Rookie of the Year honors, averaging 15.5 points and 8.6 rebounds for the Red Storm. His 32 points in his conference debut against Providence set a conference record for scoring in a player's first Big East game, bettering marks set by Georgetown's Allen Iverson and Notre Dame's Troy Murphy.
An athletic 6-foot-8, Harkless is an even worse 3-point shooter than Kidd-Gilchrist (21.5 percent). But Harkless was on a preposterously young St. John's team -- he was one of nine freshmen who played for coach Steve Lavin -- and he was one of the best players on that team. Despite the Red Storm's 13-19 record, Harkless made an impression.
"For me, the most talented guy (after Kidd-Gilchrist and Barnes) is probably Harkless," said a Western Conference general manager. "He's got size, he's got length, he rebounds. He played out of position all year, which for him will be an adjustment. He can catch and shoot, at least. He's got a lot of long term upside. He's still really, really young. He produced in a good league and he had to play out of position. He's got some long term potential."
A Central Division exec seconds that emotion, saying, "of all the guys that put their name in early, he's the most intriguing to me."
Like most players coming out of college, Harkless would do better not going to a bad team. Scouts are worried about his ability to guard in space and off the dribble. He will also be making the adjustment from college power forward to NBA small forward.
"I've got him ahead of Taylor and Green and Joseph," said the Atlantic executive. "He'll be drafted ahead of those guys. Big upside. If you get him in the early 20s or something, that has a good team and can work with him, that's a good pick."
http://www.nba.com/news/features/david_aldridge/big-board-small-forwards/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1 (http://www.nba.com/news/features/david_aldridge/big-board-small-forwards/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1)
Sounds like some people on here might be eating crow at the end of June. And it sure will be a good pitch for Lavs to tell the Lawrence's, McCullough's and Whitehead's of the city.
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From a fans perspective I hated the move, but it certainly looks like it was the correct decision.
Kid- For a whole I've felt the celtics would be A great landing spot for Moe. Learning from Pierce and KG before stepping into that role. Great set up for him.
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“@GoodmanCBS: Bradley Beal will sign with Mark Bartelstein, source told CBSSports. Beal a likely top 5 pick and could go as high as No. 2.”
Love this kid's strength, passion and athleticism.
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Good article from David Aldridge with some quotes from NBA execs praising Harkless. Has him as the 3rd best SF.
Harkless won Big East Rookie of the Year honors, averaging 15.5 points and 8.6 rebounds for the Red Storm. His 32 points in his conference debut against Providence set a conference record for scoring in a player's first Big East game, bettering marks set by Georgetown's Allen Iverson and Notre Dame's Troy Murphy.
An athletic 6-foot-8, Harkless is an even worse 3-point shooter than Kidd-Gilchrist (21.5 percent). But Harkless was on a preposterously young St. John's team -- he was one of nine freshmen who played for coach Steve Lavin -- and he was one of the best players on that team. Despite the Red Storm's 13-19 record, Harkless made an impression.
"For me, the most talented guy (after Kidd-Gilchrist and Barnes) is probably Harkless," said a Western Conference general manager. "He's got size, he's got length, he rebounds. He played out of position all year, which for him will be an adjustment. He can catch and shoot, at least. He's got a lot of long term upside. He's still really, really young. He produced in a good league and he had to play out of position. He's got some long term potential."
A Central Division exec seconds that emotion, saying, "of all the guys that put their name in early, he's the most intriguing to me."
Like most players coming out of college, Harkless would do better not going to a bad team. Scouts are worried about his ability to guard in space and off the dribble. He will also be making the adjustment from college power forward to NBA small forward.
"I've got him ahead of Taylor and Green and Joseph," said the Atlantic executive. "He'll be drafted ahead of those guys. Big upside. If you get him in the early 20s or something, that has a good team and can work with him, that's a good pick."
http://www.nba.com/news/features/david_aldridge/big-board-small-forwards/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1 (http://www.nba.com/news/features/david_aldridge/big-board-small-forwards/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1)
Sounds like some people on here might be eating crow at the end of June. And it sure will be a good pitch for Lavs to tell the Lawrence's, McCullough's and Whitehead's of the city.
Hopefully. The higher Moe goes, the better it is for St. John's. I'm praying he can somehow be a lottery choice, but I know that is a reach. Oh boy, Lavin is going to spin this for years! FWIW, I think Moe has a much better shot that Kidd-Gilchrest and will be a fine outside shooter at the next level. It just didn't fall this past year.
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Good article from David Aldridge with some quotes from NBA execs praising Harkless. Has him as the 3rd best SF.
Harkless won Big East Rookie of the Year honors, averaging 15.5 points and 8.6 rebounds for the Red Storm. His 32 points in his conference debut against Providence set a conference record for scoring in a player's first Big East game, bettering marks set by Georgetown's Allen Iverson and Notre Dame's Troy Murphy.
An athletic 6-foot-8, Harkless is an even worse 3-point shooter than Kidd-Gilchrist (21.5 percent). But Harkless was on a preposterously young St. John's team -- he was one of nine freshmen who played for coach Steve Lavin -- and he was one of the best players on that team. Despite the Red Storm's 13-19 record, Harkless made an impression.
"For me, the most talented guy (after Kidd-Gilchrist and Barnes) is probably Harkless," said a Western Conference general manager. "He's got size, he's got length, he rebounds. He played out of position all year, which for him will be an adjustment. He can catch and shoot, at least. He's got a lot of long term upside. He's still really, really young. He produced in a good league and he had to play out of position. He's got some long term potential."
A Central Division exec seconds that emotion, saying, "of all the guys that put their name in early, he's the most intriguing to me."
Like most players coming out of college, Harkless would do better not going to a bad team. Scouts are worried about his ability to guard in space and off the dribble. He will also be making the adjustment from college power forward to NBA small forward.
"I've got him ahead of Taylor and Green and Joseph," said the Atlantic executive. "He'll be drafted ahead of those guys. Big upside. If you get him in the early 20s or something, that has a good team and can work with him, that's a good pick."
http://www.nba.com/news/features/david_aldridge/big-board-small-forwards/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1 (http://www.nba.com/news/features/david_aldridge/big-board-small-forwards/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1)
Sounds like some people on here might be eating crow at the end of June. And it sure will be a good pitch for Lavs to tell the Lawrence's, McCullough's and Whitehead's of the city.
Hopefully. The higher Moe goes, the better it is for St. John's. I'm praying he can somehow be a lottery choice, but I know that is a reach. Oh boy, Lavin is going to spin this for years! FWIW, I think Moe has a much better shot that Kidd-Gilchrest and will be a fine outside shooter at the next level. It just didn't fall this past year.
This is precisely the reason why the vitriol towards Moe was not only misguided but more importantly they could not see the added benefit from this. Lavin puts guys in the pros, it is a HUGE plus.
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While Lavins track record speaks for itself , it seems a bit disingenuous to state Lavin got Moe to the NBA.
I'm not a negative poster and love this team and staff, but you know that this is the haters/ flamers of the board response. Like I said , Lavins has a ton of kids in the league, but from a coaching perspective , he probably had the least influence on Moe.
Just sayin.
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I just see the positives here all around. Lavin gets credit, Dunlap gets credit, SJU gets credit, NYC gets credit, and most importantly the small but influencial group known as johnnyjungle that dictates recruiting, lineups, game plans, etc. Moe continues to be the "pied piper" for 21st century SJU basketball, and while his absence will be felt next year he'll continue to impact our program from the NBA.
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While Lavins track record speaks for itself , it seems a bit disingenuous to state Lavin got Moe to the NBA.
I'm not a negative poster and love this team and staff, but you know that this is the haters/ flamers of the board response. Like I said , Lavins has a ton of kids in the league, but from a coaching perspective , he probably had the least influence on Moe.
Just sayin.
If it makes you feel better, Boo, just change that from "Lavin gets players to the NBA" to "Lavin is PERCEIVED to get players to the NBA" - cause that's what in the end is important - how do future recruits PERCEIVE Lavin's effectiveness at getting them NBA looks?
Having Lavin has drawn more attentioin to the program and it's players than has the past coupld regimes - signees have gotten a LOT more publicity simply for COMING to SJU than in previous years - they're on the radar almost from Day 1. And, as he was "one of their own" for nearly a decade, ESPN gives his team and his players more exposure than the same players would if Norm were still here. Lavin's got double digit players IN the league, most of them apparently putting out a good word for SJU kids - most of them have been to SJU and run in pickup games with our kids. Lavin has got Rico and Dunlap on his staff, both of whose opinions are HIGHLY respected by NBA teams. trust me, if formerGeorge Karl right-hand man Dunlap calls to tell the Nuggets that Moe's the real deal, Karl is taking the call!....and Rico has trained/improved players for half the teams in the League - when Rico talks up Moe's potential, teams ARE listening. Lav's has a former assistant coach who's Director of Player Personell for the the New Orleans Hornets. Gerald Madkins is gonna take Lav's call for Moe, or for D'lo or even Gift (if not as a draft pick, for a summer league roster for GG) next year. And if the phone rings in the San Franciso Warriors offices, new GM Bob Myers - whom Lav's recruited and was his position coachat UCLA, and then later his head coach, and who was team captain for Lav's at UCLA - is gonna take THAT call....
There's a lot of ways a coach "gets" a player to the NBA. Even more ways he's "perceived" to have done so! Heck, all the reasons above, and I didn't even mention actually PREPARING the kids via coaching, training, conditioning, exprience in multiple defenses, multiple offenses, utilizing players at multiple positions, etc. ;)
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Let's just make sure that Norm gets the credit due to him for getting Moe into the pros.
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Good post CrGreen . Perception is everything. I with you.
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Let's just make sure that Norm gets the credit due to him for getting Moe into the pros.
Come on. Dunlap should get all the credit. Nobody else.
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Maybe Moe should get some of the credit
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Maybe Moe should get some of the credit
Bingo
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Maybe Moe should get some of the credit
I hope you realize my comment above that only Dunlap should get credit was in jest. Just as the comment above that about Norm getting credit was also a joke.
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NBADraft.net compared some players expected to go high, to players who are projected to go lower but might give you the same value later in the draft. Here is the one involving our Moe:
Perry Jones (lottery) - Moe Harkless (mid-to-late first)
The biggest question marks with Jones concern his consistency, motor, and toughness. Those aren’t issues with Harkless. While there’s no denying the upside of Jones, the rawer Harkless could actually be a safer pick and a potential trade back candidate.
http://www.nbadraft.net/value-picks-2012-nba-draft (http://www.nbadraft.net/value-picks-2012-nba-draft)
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NBADraft.net compared some players expected to go high, to players who are projected to go lower but might give you the same value later in the draft. Here is the one involving our Moe:
Perry Jones (lottery) - Moe Harkless (mid-to-late first)
The biggest question marks with Jones concern his consistency, motor, and toughness. Those aren’t issues with Harkless. While there’s no denying the upside of Jones, the rawer Harkless could actually be a safer pick and a potential trade back candidate.
http://www.nbadraft.net/value-picks-2012-nba-draft (http://www.nbadraft.net/value-picks-2012-nba-draft)
Don't know if I agree with the that comment about motor and consistency
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NBADraft.net compared some players expected to go high, to players who are projected to go lower but might give you the same value later in the draft. Here is the one involving our Moe:
Perry Jones (lottery) - Moe Harkless (mid-to-late first)
The biggest question marks with Jones concern his consistency, motor, and toughness. Those aren’t issues with Harkless. While there’s no denying the upside of Jones, the rawer Harkless could actually be a safer pick and a potential trade back candidate.
http://www.nbadraft.net/value-picks-2012-nba-draft (http://www.nbadraft.net/value-picks-2012-nba-draft)
Don't know if I agree with the that comment about motor and consistency
Compared with Jones, I do. If Jones had a motor he would have been a lottery pick last year. I'm willing to give Moe the benefit of the doubt, and I'm sure some scouts do as well, considering the amount of minutes thrust upon him as a freshman.
Moe makes a lot of things look effortless as well. Sure there were games where he disappeared for stretch's, but i never got them impression he was dogging it.
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NBADraft.net compared some players expected to go high, to players who are projected to go lower but might give you the same value later in the draft. Here is the one involving our Moe:
Perry Jones (lottery) - Moe Harkless (mid-to-late first)
The biggest question marks with Jones concern his consistency, motor, and toughness. Those aren’t issues with Harkless. While there’s no denying the upside of Jones, the rawer Harkless could actually be a safer pick and a potential trade back candidate.
http://www.nbadraft.net/value-picks-2012-nba-draft (http://www.nbadraft.net/value-picks-2012-nba-draft)
Don't know if I agree with the that comment about motor and consistency
Compared with Jones, I do. If Jones had a motor he would have been a lottery pick last year. I'm willing to give Moe the benefit of the doubt, and I'm sure some scouts do as well, considering the amount of minutes thrust upon him as a freshman.
Moe makes a lot of things look effortless as well. Sure there were games where he disappeared for stretch's, but i never got them impression he was dogging it.
Never thought Moe was dogging it, ever. But there were some games I scratched my head while he disappeared for long stretches.
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Never thought Moe was dogging it, ever. But there were some games I scratched my head while he disappeared for long stretches..
He didn't have a consistent enough jumper to dominate offensively. The offense sucked and he was playing w/o a point guard. Moe averaged almost 9 boards a game playing Center in the BE. He played hard just not refined enough offensively at this point. When he was hitting jumpers it just opened up the rest of his game and you saw glimpses of what he could be one day.
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I'd chalk his less than stellar games up to the fact that he was a freshman, often the primary or co-primary focus of the other teams defense, and playing out of position some of the time. Nothing more.
Interesting side note. I'm friendly with Lawrence Franks and his family, and was hanging with him at an event for a family friend back in October. He told me that he heard that people were "real high" on Harkless, how getting the best NYC player from that year was a great thing for the Johnnies (his wife/wife's father is an alum of the law school, I believe), and that the general thought among some NBA folks was that his potential was off-the-charts good. Given that Detroit has two young big guys (including their best player, Monroe, IMO), and a young PG (Knight), will be interesting to see where they end up picking and if Mo is a target (I believe at least one mock draft had them taking Mo).
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NBADraft.net compared some players expected to go high, to players who are projected to go lower but might give you the same value later in the draft. Here is the one involving our Moe:
Perry Jones (lottery) - Moe Harkless (mid-to-late first)
The biggest question marks with Jones concern his consistency, motor, and toughness. Those aren’t issues with Harkless. While there’s no denying the upside of Jones, the rawer Harkless could actually be a safer pick and a potential trade back candidate.
http://www.nbadraft.net/value-picks-2012-nba-draft (http://www.nbadraft.net/value-picks-2012-nba-draft)
Don't know if I agree with the that comment about motor and consistency
I think that description is closer to the Moe we would've seen if he stayed another year.
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“@Nateblueis4real: IMG workouts have been solid. Moe Harkless (ST.Johns), Kendall Marshall (Unc), Darius Johnson-Odom (MU), Benard James (Fla St), and others.”
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http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/name/nba_draft/id/7903861/2012-nba-draft-breaking-top-10-prospects-position (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/name/nba_draft/id/7903861/2012-nba-draft-breaking-top-10-prospects-position)
Small forwards
1. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Fr., Kentucky Wildcats (2)
2. Harrison Barnes, So., North Carolina Tar Heels (6)
3. Quincy Miller, Fr., Baylor Bears (20)
4. Moe Harkless, Fr., St. John's Red Storm (22)
5. Royce White, So, Iowa State Cyclones (25)
6. Jeff Taylor, Sr., Vanderbilt Commodores (26)
7. Draymond Green, Sr., Michigan State Spartans (28)
8. Khris Middleton, Jr. Texas A&M Aggies (37)
9. Tomas Satoransky, Czech Republic (39)
10. Darius Miller, Sr., Kentucky Wildcats (40)
Comments: Everyone talks about the need for centers and big men in the draft, but the biggest drought in the NBA comes at the small forward position. According to John Hollinger's PER stats, only 18 small forwards posted a PER of 15 or higher this season. That was the fewest of any position in the league. This year both Kidd-Gilchrist and Barnes are players who could sneak into that group eventually. Miller and Harkless are both young and underprepared, but have big upsides.
White is the real enigma of the draft. He could be great or he could be a bust. No one is quite sure which he'll be.
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“@davejaspers: #stjbb Moe Harkless projected to go 24th to Cleveland in the latest @GoodmanCBS NBA Mock Draft.”
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I hope Moe drops to #48. 8)
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I hope Moe drops to #48. 8)
WOW that mean. Hope you are joking
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I hope Moe drops to #48. 8)
WOW that mean. Hope you are joking
What's mean that he hopes that he gets drafted lower or that he gets drafted by the Knicks
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I hope Moe drops to #48. 8)
WOW that mean. Hope you are joking
What's mean that he hopes that he gets drafted lower or that he gets drafted by the Knicks
Must be the latter. If he goes to the Cavs, at least he'll have a good shot at serious pt and play with a talented point guard.
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I hope Moe drops to #48. 8)
WOW that mean. Hope you are joking
What's mean that he hopes that he gets drafted lower or that he gets drafted by the Knicks
Jumpin' got it, Knicks could use him as a sixth man off the bench. But clearly that will never happen unfortunately.
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I hope Moe drops to #48. 8)
WOW that mean. Hope you are joking
What's mean that he hopes that he gets drafted lower or that he gets drafted by the Knicks
Jumpin' got it, Knicks could use him as a sixth man off the bench. But clearly that will never happen unfortunately.
Actually Moe is very fortunate not to be anywhere near that mess :)
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Moe is working out for Toronto on Wednesday. LOTTERY interest!!!
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Moe is working out for Toronto on Wednesday. LOTTERY interest!!!
Unless Raptors are thinking of trading out of the Lottery :)
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Raps can use a SF bad. James Johnson played Solid at the end of the season put up some descent numbers.
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At this point, what NBA player provides a good comparison for the type of player Moe ends up like? I am talking down the line, when he reaches his potential. I was thinking Rudy Gay. My son, who follows the NBA more closely, says that is a bad comparison. But when I see Gay play I see glimpses of Moe's game.
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I know everyone thinks moe will be a 3, but with centers getting smaller and moes ability to rebound I really think once he's 4-5 years in the lg he's a 3/4 but more of a 4 who goes outside. Guys like josh smith, Antoine walker, Marvin Williams, Chris bosh come to mind in offensive game and rebounding only. Defensively he won't be Williams/smith and hopefully won't be Antoine on the other end of the spectrum. Jump shooting 4. Maybe even a lil lamar odom. These guys cover a wide range of offensive games but they are similar that they usually play 4 and are often jump shooters with somewhat of a post game but not a great one
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I know everyone thinks moe will be a 3, but with centers getting smaller and moes ability to rebound I really think once he's 4-5 years in the lg he's a 3/4 but more of a 4 who goes outside. Guys like josh smith, Antoine walker, Marvin Williams, Chris bosh come to mind in offensive game and rebounding only. Defensively he won't be Williams/smith and hopefully won't be Antoine on the other end of the spectrum. Jump shooting 4. Maybe even a lil lamar odom. These guys cover a wide range of offensive games but they are similar that they usually play 4 and are often jump shooters with somewhat of a post game but not a great one
Agree with you kid. I wanna say he reminds me of Rudy gay but I think hes just a little more inside oriented than Rudy. And im sure moe will be able to rebound in the league once he gets a little more strength. He was the best rebounder ive ever got to see at st johns.
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I know everyone thinks moe will be a 3, but with centers getting smaller and moes ability to rebound I really think once he's 4-5 years in the lg he's a 3/4 but more of a 4 who goes outside. Guys like josh smith, Antoine walker, Marvin Williams, Chris bosh come to mind in offensive game and rebounding only. Defensively he won't be Williams/smith and hopefully won't be Antoine on the other end of the spectrum. Jump shooting 4. Maybe even a lil lamar odom. These guys cover a wide range of offensive games but they are similar that they usually play 4 and are often jump shooters with somewhat of a post game but not a great one
Agree with you kid. I wanna say he reminds me of Rudy gay but I think hes just a little more inside oriented than Rudy. And im sure moe will be able to rebound in the league once he gets a little more strength. He was the best rebounder ive ever got to see at st johns.
You must be in your 20's David Russell, Walter Berry and Jason Williams were better IMO
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Not looking at stats, but I remember Charles Minlend, Tyrone Grant, and Glover as all very good rebounders for those of us in our late 20s to remember.
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I know everyone thinks moe will be a 3, but with centers getting smaller and moes ability to rebound I really think once he's 4-5 years in the lg he's a 3/4 but more of a 4 who goes outside. Guys like josh smith, Antoine walker, Marvin Williams, Chris bosh come to mind in offensive game and rebounding only. Defensively he won't be Williams/smith and hopefully won't be Antoine on the other end of the spectrum. Jump shooting 4. Maybe even a lil lamar odom. These guys cover a wide range of offensive games but they are similar that they usually play 4 and are often jump shooters with somewhat of a post game but not a great one
Agree with you kid. I wanna say he reminds me of Rudy gay but I think hes just a little more inside oriented than Rudy. And im sure moe will be able to rebound in the league once he gets a little more strength. He was the best rebounder ive ever got to see at st johns.
You must be in your 20's David Russell, Walter Berry and Jason Williams were better IMO
right you are. Not much competition for the time ive witnessed. Cuff, glover, and emanual were the first bigs I got to watch.
Moes hands just never let go of the ball. Once he got his fingers on it the ball was goin with him
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Zendon Hamilton was a pretty good rebounder. Probably could have been better. As a soph he averaged 20 ppg and 10 rpg.
He did follow many of his own misses though.
Bootsy Thornton was a great rebounder for a 6'4 guard.
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I know everyone thinks moe will be a 3, but with centers getting smaller and moes ability to rebound I really think once he's 4-5 years in the lg he's a 3/4 but more of a 4 who goes outside. Guys like josh smith, Antoine walker, Marvin Williams, Chris bosh come to mind in offensive game and rebounding only. Defensively he won't be Williams/smith and hopefully won't be Antoine on the other end of the spectrum. Jump shooting 4. Maybe even a lil lamar odom. These guys cover a wide range of offensive games but they are similar that they usually play 4 and are often jump shooters with somewhat of a post game but not a great one
Agree with you kid. I wanna say he reminds me of Rudy gay but I think hes just a little more inside oriented than Rudy. And im sure moe will be able to rebound in the league once he gets a little more strength. He was the best rebounder ive ever got to see at st johns.
You must be in your 20's David Russell, Walter Berry and Jason Williams were better IMO
You must be in your 40's. ;D. George Johnson and Mel Davis were better.
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mel davis, leroy ellis, billy paultz. mo is no where near the names that have been mentioned.
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They was all better as frosh? Or 1st year Varsity?
C'mon now.
Mo woulda surpassed a lotta names had he stayed his time.
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Moe is working out for Toronto on Wednesday. LOTTERY interest!!!
Unless Raptors are thinking of trading out of the Lottery :)
Nope there has been mutual interest there for a while.
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They was all better as frosh? Or 1st year Varsity?
C'mon now.
Mo woulda surpassed a lotta names had he stayed his time.
Mel Davis pulled down 16.1 as a 1st year eligible. Sonny Dove 11.6. B ob Zawoluk 10.2. Leroy Ellis 10.1. George Johnson 9.7.
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Moe is working out for Toronto on Wednesday. LOTTERY interest!!!
Unless Raptors are thinking of trading out of the Lottery :)
Nope there has been mutual interest there for a while.
Didn't mean they weren't interested in Moe - just that if they want him, they might be able to drop lower in the first round and still get him - maybe pick up a 2nd rounder in the process....
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Moe is working out for Toronto on Wednesday. LOTTERY interest!!!
Unless Raptors are thinking of trading out of the Lottery :)
Nope there has been mutual interest there for a while.
Didn't mean they weren't interested in Moe - just that if they want him, they might be able to drop lower in the first round and still get him - maybe pick up a 2nd rounder in the process....
That isn't the case.
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mel davis, leroy ellis, billy paultz. mo is no where near the names that have been mentioned.
Never saw them. But doubt that he could have been THAT far off. Every ball he touched he got. It really was amazing.
On a side note I really hope moe doesnt go to the raptors. Thats a tough place to play. If its lottery money however than good for him
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mel davis, leroy ellis, billy paultz. mo is no where near the names that have been mentioned.
Never saw them. But doubt that he could have been THAT far off. Every ball he touched he got. It really was amazing.
On a side note I really hope moe doesnt go to the raptors. Thats a tough place to play. If its lottery money however than good for him
Yeah, but Moe didn't have to walk to school backwards, without shoes, in the snow, to get to practice? Did he? ;)
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They was all better as frosh? Or 1st year Varsity?
C'mon now.
Mo woulda surpassed a lotta names had he stayed his time.
they were all better. i agree mo would have moved up the all time list had he stayed. the team that picks him will do so because of his potential. we agree he has a great upside. the three i mentioned...who all had nice nba careers...were picked based on performance.
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They was all better as frosh? Or 1st year Varsity?
C'mon now.
Mo woulda surpassed a lotta names had he stayed his time.
they were all better. i agree mo would have moved up the all time list had he stayed. the team that picks him will do so because of his potential. we agree he has a great upside. the three i mentioned...who all had nice nba careers...were picked based on performance.
I dont wanna take nuthin away from STJ legends who deserve respct and admiration.
Just sayin I believe Mo could be among them. But thats pure hypothetical now.
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I think some people are forgetting what Moe's natural position is and what he was forced to play last year.
Also I think its very hard to compare the game from when Mel and company played to now. Many things have changed.
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Whatever his natural position was/is, he was a helluva rebounder for someone as slender as he was. He must have tremendously strong hands because if he got a paw on it, he was bringing it in.
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Whatever his natural position was/is, he was a helluva rebounder for someone as slender as he was. He must have tremendously strong hands because if he got a paw on it, he was bringing it in.
Or putting the offensive rebound in the basket like he did in the closing seconds of the win against Cincy on the road.
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mel davis, leroy ellis, billy paultz. mo is no where near the names that have been mentioned.
Never saw them. But doubt that he could have been THAT far off. Every ball he touched he got. It really was amazing.
On a side note I really hope moe doesnt go to the raptors. Thats a tough place to play. If its lottery money however than good for him
Yeah, but Moe didn't have to walk to school backwards, without shoes, in the snow, to get to practice? Did he? ;)
No he didnt, and even worse, it was uphill both ways!
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They was all better as frosh? Or 1st year Varsity?
C'mon now.
Mo woulda surpassed a lotta names had he stayed his time.
I'm sure Choz but we'll never know. They didn't call Mel Davis "killer " for nothing. Best rebounder we ever had.
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today's stats are inflated because the players are no longer going up against four year superstars. now it's one or two and out. the talent pool is obviously thinner.
i'm elated moe chose us. i'm sorry, for selfish reasons, he's leaving. if everyone in college hoops stayed four years, moe would have been an all timer. that's why a player who was inconsistant in his freshman year will go in the first round. upside and potential. the nba benefits...not us.
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Agree newsie, at least on the court obviously. Where Mo's departure benefits us is selling Lavin and Co. to future recruits, especially if Mo goes as high as some people are predicting.
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Mel Davis, from everything I've read and heard, would have eaten Moe's lunch down low. Those rebounding #'s are INSANE and they speak for themselves. Like Moose pointed out, though, Moe was a SF playing out of position at PF and C.
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Mel Davis, from everything I've read and heard, would have eaten Moe's lunch down low. Those rebounding #'s are INSANE and they speak for themselves. Like Moose pointed out, though, Moe was a SF playing out of position at PF and C.
Best rebounding college SF you ever saw? My vote goes to Elgin (20.3 rebs and 19.3 rebs his two years in D-1). 2nd best is tough - it might be the Kangaroo Kid, Billy Cunningham - averaged 24pts and 16 rebs his 3 years at UNC....
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it's hard to argue about elgin...who was dr j before dr j was dr j...but i also like kermit washington in college...and paul silas.
for some reason, rebounding isn't the art it used to be.
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it's hard to argue about elgin...who was dr j before dr j was dr j...but i also like kermit washington in college...and paul silas.
for some reason, rebounding isn't the art it used to be.
better shooters :)
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it's hard to argue about elgin...who was dr j before dr j was dr j...but i also like kermit washington in college...and paul silas.
for some reason, rebounding isn't the art it used to be.
Yeah, but Kermit and Paul were pure 4s (and sometimes 5s) in college and the pros. I'd include Elvin Hayes, Dave DeBusschere, Gus Johnson, and Jerry Lucas if we're extending to that position - but it kinda takes the discussion away from Moe and rebounding well while playing out of position....
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Mel Davis, from everything I've read and heard, would have eaten Moe's lunch down low. Those rebounding #'s are INSANE and they speak for themselves. Like Moose pointed out, though, Moe was a SF playing out of position at PF and C.
mel is a cool dede and great representative of the school at games and in general. He's real personable and has really good stories when you sit down and talk with him and my girlfriend thinks his wife is a doll also, She's real nice also
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Mel Davis, from everything I've read and heard, would have eaten Moe's lunch down low. Those rebounding #'s are INSANE and they speak for themselves. Like Moose pointed out, though, Moe was a SF playing out of position at PF and C.
mel is a cool dede and great representative of the school at games and in general. He's real personable and has really good stories when you sit down and talk with him and my girlfriend thinks his wife is a doll also, She's real nice also
What the heck were you posting at 330 am?
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Mel Davis, from everything I've read and heard, would have eaten Moe's lunch down low. Those rebounding #'s are INSANE and they speak for themselves. Like Moose pointed out, though, Moe was a SF playing out of position at PF and C.
mel is a cool dede and great representative of the school at games and in general. He's real personable and has really good stories when you sit down and talk with him and my girlfriend thinks his wife is a doll also, She's real nice also
What the heck were you posting at 330 am?
Insomnia
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Mel Davis, from everything I've read and heard, would have eaten Moe's lunch down low. Those rebounding #'s are INSANE and they speak for themselves. Like Moose pointed out, though, Moe was a SF playing out of position at PF and C.
mel is a cool dede and great representative of the school at games and in general. He's real personable and has really good stories when you sit down and talk with him and my girlfriend thinks his wife is a doll also, She's real nice also
sorry..i thought we were talking about rebounding in general. maybe one of the best rebounders of all time... bill russell... was out of position. at 6'8"...he's shorter than moe.
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Actual best boarder was Charlie Slack who came out of the Army Air Corps in WWII supposed t play tight end for Woody Hayes. Injury prevented that and Woody made the link for Slack to play basketball at Marshall. Couldn't jump worth a lick but if six guys were in the lane as the ball went up Charlie was there alone by the time it came down.
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They was all better as frosh? Or 1st year Varsity?
C'mon now.
Mo woulda surpassed a lotta names had he stayed his time.
I'm sure Choz but we'll never know. They didn't call Mel Davis "killer " for nothing. Best rebounder we ever had.
Mel didn't have any money either, but he stayed in school and meant something to SJ. Moe used us a stop gap.
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They was all better as frosh? Or 1st year Varsity?
C'mon now.
Mo woulda surpassed a lotta names had he stayed his time.
I'm sure Choz but we'll never know. They didn't call Mel Davis "killer " for nothing. Best rebounder we ever had.
Mel didn't have any money either, but he stayed in school and meant something to SJ. Moe used us a stop gap.
Um how many kids during Mel's years left early?
It's the nature of the beast. Why fight it? Embrace it and the positives it can/will bring as a result.
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I'm not fighting it, I'm just not putting Moe's name up in the rafters at Alumni Hall. Good luck to him. He will need it.
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I'm not fighting it, I'm just not putting Moe's name up in the rafters at Alumni Hall. Good luck to him. He will need it.
Ok but care to take a shot at my question to your post?
In Mel's days was leaving early an option?
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;)College is usually a pre req to having a successful career and making money. Like mark zuckerberg, moe clearly did not need a college degree to hit it big. After one year he will get a contract with a total value over 3-4 years that most of his st johns classmates will not make in their lifetimes after graduating. Moe used college like anyone does. He just didn't need to graduate to reap the benefits. Not his fault. I may think it would be better in the long run if he stayed one more year, but he's undoubtedly going to make BANK at age 19 and will be competing at the highest level in his trade. The level everyone aspires to reach - the NBA. If this means at johns was a stopgap for him, then hell, call college a stopgap for everyone, poison. Isn't this the goal?
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;)College is usually a pre req to having a successful career and making money. Like mark zuckerberg, moe clearly did not need a college degree to hit it big. After one year he will get a contract with a total value over 3-4 years that most of his st johns classmates will not make in their lifetimes after graduating. Moe used college like anyone does. He just didn't need to graduate to reap the benefits. Not his fault. I may think it would be better in the long run if he stayed one more year, but he's undoubtedly going to make BANK at age 19 and will be competing at the highest level in his trade. The level everyone aspires to reach - the NBA. If this means at johns was a stopgap for him, then hell, call college a stopgap for everyone, poison. Isn't this the goal?
And in turn he helped bridge a gap where STJ is now a 'cool' destination again. He helped repair years of disdain many kids and handlers had about STJ. First one to pop in the 2011 class as well. Nobody knows how the class would have turned out if he didn't pop first.
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I'm not fighting it, I'm just not putting Moe's name up in the rafters at Alumni Hall. Good luck to him. He will need it.
Ok but care to take a shot at my question to your post?
In Mel's days was leaving early an option?
It wasn't done. I don't, and didn't dispute that. Mel still contributed(s) so much to the school.
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I'm not fighting it, I'm just not putting Moe's name up in the rafters at Alumni Hall. Good luck to him. He will need it.
Ok but care to take a shot at my question to your post?
In Mel's days was leaving early an option?
It wasn't done. I don't, and didn't dispute that. Mel still contributed(s) so much to the school.
No doubt. Mel was and is a great ambassador the school.
No inside info here and just a well educated hunch but I see Moe as the same down the road. Kid is heady and I think will embrace STJ over the years and prove to be a great asset for us.
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http://hoopshype.com/videos/videos/moe-harkless-i-want-to-show-a-lot-of-things-i-wasnt-able-to-this-season (http://hoopshype.com/videos/videos/moe-harkless-i-want-to-show-a-lot-of-things-i-wasnt-able-to-this-season)
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“@NYPost_Brazille: Hearing @moe_harkless has been invited to the NBA Draft Combine June 6-10 in Chicago, which is for the top prospects. #stjbb #nycstandup”
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/05/18/draft.safe.bets/index.html (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/05/18/draft.safe.bets/index.html)
Sam Amick lists Moe as one of the "safest bets" for the draft class. I probably would have included him in the high risk high reward category, because I think "safe" implies he doesnt have as high a ceiling as he does, but I do agree that he has a higher floor than many in the risk/reward section. Basically, Amick didn't comment too much about Moe, and my guess is, doesn't know too much about Moe.
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/05/18/draft.safe.bets/index.html (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/05/18/draft.safe.bets/index.html)
Sam Amick lists Moe as one of the "safest bets" for the draft class. I probably would have included him in the high risk high reward category, because I think "safe" implies he doesnt have as high a ceiling as he does, but I do agree that he has a higher floor than many in the risk/reward section. Basically, Amick didn't comment too much about Moe, and my guess is, doesn't know too much about Moe.
I think Moe has a higher floor--as you put it--but I don't think he's very athletic by NBA standards. He can jump for sure, but I always felt he had slow feet. His size and length are ideal, though, and that is valued today more than ever in the NBA.
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Moe's potential is off the charts. That's why he's a safe bet. It's ironic but the way we had to use him eliminated all the early reservations people had about him. He showed he could score, board and bang with the big boys. At his age that was exceptional. Too bad we couldn't bring him along gradually. Leaving was a no-brainer for him.
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“@NYPost_Brazille: Hearing @moe_harkless has been invited to the NBA Draft Combine June 6-10 in Chicago, which is for the top prospects. #stjbb #nycstandup”
Here's the list for the combine, Moe will be there
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/19124023/nba-draft-combine-participants (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/19124023/nba-draft-combine-participants)
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“@NYPost_Brazille: Hearing @moe_harkless has been invited to the NBA Draft Combine June 6-10 in Chicago, which is for the top prospects. #stjbb #nycstandup”
Here's the list for the combine, Moe will be there
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/19124023/nba-draft-combine-participants (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/19124023/nba-draft-combine-participants)
Let's all hope Moe has a great showing at the combine.
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Moe at # 16
“@GoodmanCBS: My Top 100 rankings in preparation for the June 28 NBA Draft -- and yes, I put Harrison Barnes in front of MKG -- http://t.co/9Q6n3lQa (http://t.co/9Q6n3lQa)”
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Moe at # 16
“@GoodmanCBS: My Top 100 rankings in preparation for the June 28 NBA Draft -- and yes, I put Harrison Barnes in front of MKG -- http://t.co/9Q6n3lQa (http://t.co/9Q6n3lQa)”
Can't help noticing...no one from Grambling in the top 100 :(
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Moe at # 16
“@GoodmanCBS: My Top 100 rankings in preparation for the June 28 NBA Draft -- and yes, I put Harrison Barnes in front of MKG -- http://t.co/9Q6n3lQa (http://t.co/9Q6n3lQa)”
Can't help noticing...no one from Grambling in the top 100 :(
Noone from UCLA either?
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Moe at # 16
“@GoodmanCBS: My Top 100 rankings in preparation for the June 28 NBA Draft -- and yes, I put Harrison Barnes in front of MKG -- http://t.co/9Q6n3lQa (http://t.co/9Q6n3lQa)”
Can't help noticing...no one from Grambling in the top 100 :(
Noone from UCLA either?
None expected this year. No one left early for the draft, either.
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Moe at # 16
“@GoodmanCBS: My Top 100 rankings in preparation for the June 28 NBA Draft -- and yes, I put Harrison Barnes in front of MKG -- http://t.co/9Q6n3lQa (http://t.co/9Q6n3lQa)”
Can't help noticing...no one from Grambling in the top 100 :(
Noone from UCLA either?
None expected this year. No one left early for the draft, either.
Breaking your balls
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Moe at # 16
“@GoodmanCBS: My Top 100 rankings in preparation for the June 28 NBA Draft -- and yes, I put Harrison Barnes in front of MKG -- http://t.co/9Q6n3lQa (http://t.co/9Q6n3lQa)”
Can't help noticing...no one from Grambling in the top 100 :(
Noone from UCLA either?
None expected this year. No one left early for the draft, either.
Breaking your balls
In other news the sky is blue.
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Moe at # 16
“@GoodmanCBS: My Top 100 rankings in preparation for the June 28 NBA Draft -- and yes, I put Harrison Barnes in front of MKG -- http://t.co/9Q6n3lQa (http://t.co/9Q6n3lQa)”
Can't help noticing...no one from Grambling in the top 100 :(
Noone from UCLA either?
None expected this year. No one left early for the draft, either.
Breaking your balls
In other news the sky is blue.
Not lately
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Moe at # 16
“@GoodmanCBS: My Top 100 rankings in preparation for the June 28 NBA Draft -- and yes, I put Harrison Barnes in front of MKG -- http://t.co/9Q6n3lQa (http://t.co/9Q6n3lQa)”
Can't help noticing...no one from Grambling in the top 100 :(
Noone from UCLA either?
None expected this year. No one left early for the draft, either.
Breaking your balls
In other news the sky is blue.
Not lately
Touche :)
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http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012-05-22/NBA-mock-draft-Robinson-almost-lock-at-No-2/55143712/1 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012-05-22/NBA-mock-draft-Robinson-almost-lock-at-No-2/55143712/1)
Moe at 8 in USA today, WOW!
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http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012-05-22/NBA-mock-draft-Robinson-almost-lock-at-No-2/55143712/1 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/nba/story/2012-05-22/NBA-mock-draft-Robinson-almost-lock-at-No-2/55143712/1)
Moe at 8 in USA today, WOW!
I'll tell you something. The team at #7 can use him. GS errrr San Fran is weak at SF.
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Mock has #7 GS picking another SF, Harrison Barnes. I think Moe is the home run pick between the 2 of them, but for a team trying to "win now" in new arena, Harrison probably contributes more to a winning team year 1 than Moe. By year 3/4 though I'd rather moe.
That mock also has Jeremy Lamb going 24th. Seems like way too far of a fall...
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I've been saying for months, Harkless us a lottery pick
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Mock has #7 GS picking another SF, Harrison Barnes. I think Moe is the home run pick between the 2 of them, but for a team trying to "win now" in new arena, Harrison probably contributes more to a winning team year 1 than Moe. By year 3/4 though I'd rather moe.
That mock also has Jeremy Lamb going 24th. Seems like way too far of a fall...
What new arena? They won't be in SF for another 5 yrs. Some 1st rd picks are out of the league by then haha.
I'm not sold on Lamb. Last year he impressed me more. I'm sure winning the NC might have played into that too.
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Whoops - never paid too close attention to the Warriors move stories. Headlines didn't make it obvious that it was taking that long. My bad.
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Moe Harkless Fans @MoeHarklessFans
On May 30th The Orlando Magic will host Moe Harkless #NBA #NBADraft #Stjbb
Retweeted by Nathan Blue
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Moe Harkless Fans @MoeHarklessFans
On May 30th The Orlando Magic will host Moe Harkless #NBA #NBADraft #Stjbb
Retweeted by Nathan Blue
They own the 19th pick
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Moe Harkless Fans @MoeHarklessFans
On May 30th The Orlando Magic will host Moe Harkless #NBA #NBADraft #Stjbb
Retweeted by Nathan Blue
That could be a good match, Orlando isn't very good at the forward spots. Moe would get a good chance to prove himself
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Yea I like Mo on the magic and he would get tons of PT since they are in rebuilding mode. Howards said the other he still wants out!
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I've been saying for months, Harkless us a lottery pick
And you've bene wrong for monhs ;)
He would have been a lottery pick if he came out next year, but I see no way he goes in the lottery this year.
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NBA drafts on sure things and potential. I don't see too many can't misses in this draft, and I don't see guys with more potential than Moe. Certainly not 13 of them
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USA Today has him going at the 9 spot. I'm not sure of their level of basketball knowledge, but there's someone that supports the Moe/lottery proposition.
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CBS sports has Moe going 24 to Cavs.
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CBS sports has Moe going 24 to Cavs.
He's closer to going seventh to the Warriors than he is going 24th to the Cavs.
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CBS sports has Moe going 24 to Cavs.
He's closer to going seventh to the Warriors than he is going 24th to the Cavs.
Warriors really need a SF. MKG, Barnes are Moe seem to be the 1, 2, 3 experts are talking up.
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the last two mocks I saw had Moe going in the 18th spot (nbadraft.net, draftexpress.com), the spot the Knicks should have had. Damn shame
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CBS sports has Moe going 24 to Cavs.
He's closer to going seventh to the Warriors than he is going 24th to the Cavs.
Warriors really need a SF. MKG, Barnes are Moe seem to be the 1, 2, 3 experts are talking up.
In a league where centers are hard to come by, if you can draft a SF willing and able to grab rebounds you need to go for him. Barnes is talented, but I think he's a coward.
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CBS sports has Moe going 24 to Cavs.
He's closer to going seventh to the Warriors than he is going 24th to the Cavs.
Warriors really need a SF. MKG, Barnes are Moe seem to be the 1, 2, 3 experts are talking up.
In a league where centers are hard to come by, if you can draft a SF willing and able to grab rebounds you need to go for him. Barnes is talented, but I think he's a coward.
Dorrel wright free agent?
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CBS sports has Moe going 24 to Cavs.
He's closer to going seventh to the Warriors than he is going 24th to the Cavs.
Warriors really need a SF. MKG, Barnes are Moe seem to be the 1, 2, 3 experts are talking up.
In a league where centers are hard to come by, if you can draft a SF willing and able to grab rebounds you need to go for him. Barnes is talented, but I think he's a coward.
Dorrel wright free agent?
I think he has one more year, but I heard they were looking to package a bunch of players to get a big man to rotate in with Bogut and Lee.
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An interview with St. John's freshman Moe Harkless, discussing his training regimen in Florida, his rapid ascent this season, his perimeter shooting ability, the transition from high school to college and now the NBA, and more
From DraftExpress.com http://www.draftexpress.com# (http://www.draftexpress.com#)ixzz1wEZ1bU8x
http://www.draftexpress.com (http://www.draftexpress.com)
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Moe-Harkless-Im-Going-to-Surprise-a-Lot-of-People-3926/ (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Moe-Harkless-Im-Going-to-Surprise-a-Lot-of-People-3926/)
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NBA Draft.net has him at 18 one spot ahead of Terrence Jones. Not sure if he is better then him now but both have the potential to surprise. It will be interesting to see who has abetter first few seasons
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NBA Draft.net has him at 18 one spot ahead of Terrence Jones. Not sure if he is better then him now but both have the potential to surprise. It will be interesting to see who has abetter first few seasons
I just can't see Jones as a 3. I don't see the foot speed for 3. I would be drafting Jones as a slightly undersized 4 with a lot of brute strength. I would put Moe as some have as the 3rd best SF in the draft behind MKG and Barnes. (yeah I like Barnes I know others hate him here)
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NBA drafts on sure things and potential. I don't see too many can't misses in this draft, and I don't see guys with more potential than Moe. Certainly not 13 of them
Moe has ideal size and length but his athleticism for the SF position is average at best in the NBA. I'd take Quincy Miller over him every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
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NBA drafts on sure things and potential. I don't see too many can't misses in this draft, and I don't see guys with more potential than Moe. Certainly not 13 of them
Moe has ideal size and length but his athleticism for the SF position is average at best in the NBA. I'd take Quincy Miller over him every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
You like Quincy that much over Moe?
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From Chad Ford's draft chat:
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/44002/nba-insider-chad-ford (http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/44002/nba-insider-chad-ford)
Alex (IL)
Kenneth Faried and Isaiah Thomas a couple great picks last year. This year, who do you think could be those surprise mid-first, second round players?
Chad Ford (2:40 PM)
Could be Mo Harkless. Lots of teams warming up to him. A few teams are now looking at him as a possible lottery selection. If Tony Wroten can model his game after Rondo ... he could be that guy too.
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From Chad Ford's draft chat:
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/44002/nba-insider-chad-ford (http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/44002/nba-insider-chad-ford)
Alex (IL)
Kenneth Faried and Isaiah Thomas a couple great picks last year. This year, who do you think could be those surprise mid-first, second round players?
Chad Ford (2:40 PM)
Could be Mo Harkless. Lots of teams warming up to him. A few teams are now looking at him as a possible lottery selection. If Tony Wroten can model his game after Rondo ... he could be that guy too.
Surprised Ford isn't talking about Nuri still. He was spot on with that last year. Wroten is going to be a stud.
@Moose, I think Q is one of the safest players in the draft. He has true guard skills and exceptional size and length for the SF position. The problem I see with both him and Moe is that they both have slower feet. Both are so skilled, though, but I culd see Q being a 20 ppg all-star if he adds a lot of strength. His shot is going to be lethal. I don't think there there is a player in the country that could do more with 20 pounds of muscle than this kid. He also has a great personality and confidence to spare.
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I think Terrance Jones will be a better pro than college player. Just a hunch. He's a better shooter than moe and can bang down low. Hopefully he's motivated. I'm a fan.
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I think Terrance Jones will be a better pro than college player. Just a hunch. He's a better shooter than moe and can bang down low. Hopefully he's motivated. I'm a fan.
I'm a big fan too. When he shoots though I kind of feel like no no no no no and then it goes in. I think he's better suited to just park his rear down low and do the dirty work.
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NBA drafts on sure things and potential. I don't see too many can't misses in this draft, and I don't see guys with more potential than Moe. Certainly not 13 of them
Moe has ideal size and length but his athleticism for the SF position is average at best in the NBA. I'd take Quincy Miller over him every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Give me Moe over Quincy every day of the week and twice on Sundays! lol
I like Quincy but I think Moe will be the better of the two
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I think Terrance Jones will be a better pro than college player. Just a hunch. He's a better shooter than moe and can bang down low. Hopefully he's motivated. I'm a fan.
I'm a big fan too. When he shoots though I kind of feel like no no no no no and then it goes in. I think he's better suited to just park his rear down low and do the dirty work.
Yeah, it's more of a set shot. I think he can be an effective 4 at the NBA level. He's a great athlete. All about motivation and what's between his ears. He needs to land in good spot. A crap team would probably ruin him.
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I think Terrance Jones will be a better pro than college player. Just a hunch. He's a better shooter than moe and can bang down low. Hopefully he's motivated. I'm a fan.
I'm a big fan too. When he shoots though I kind of feel like no no no no no and then it goes in. I think he's better suited to just park his rear down low and do the dirty work.
Yeah, it's more of a set shot. I think he can be an effective 4 at the NBA level. He's a great athlete. All about motivation and what's between his ears. He needs to land in good spot. A crap team would probably ruin him.
Always great to learn from a comparable player. Not sure I can pinpoint a comparable to him right now. Gotta think about it.
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NBA drafts on sure things and potential. I don't see too many can't misses in this draft, and I don't see guys with more potential than Moe. Certainly not 13 of them
Moe has ideal size and length but his athleticism for the SF position is average at best in the NBA. I'd take Quincy Miller over him every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Give me Moe over Quincy every day of the week and twice on Sundays! lol
I like Quincy but I think Moe will be the better of the two
Put 30 pounds of muscle on Quincy and nobody will be able to defend him. Neither of them is a stud athletically, but Moe probably has the advantage in that department. I would take Quincy in the lottery.
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NBA drafts on sure things and potential. I don't see too many can't misses in this draft, and I don't see guys with more potential than Moe. Certainly not 13 of them
Moe has ideal size and length but his athleticism for the SF position is average at best in the NBA. I'd take Quincy Miller over him every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Give me Moe over Quincy every day of the week and twice on Sundays! lol
I like Quincy but I think Moe will be the better of the two
Put 30 pounds of muscle on Quincy and nobody will be able to defend him. Neither of them is a stud athletically, but Moe probably has the advantage in that department. I would take Quincy in the lottery.
Wouldn't 30 lbs sap the already lacking athleticism you speak of?
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I think Terrance Jones will be a better pro than college player. Just a hunch. He's a better shooter than moe and can bang down low. Hopefully he's motivated. I'm a fan.
I'm a big fan too. When he shoots though I kind of feel like no no no no no and then it goes in. I think he's better suited to just park his rear down low and do the dirty work.
Yeah, it's more of a set shot. I think he can be an effective 4 at the NBA level. He's a great athlete. All about motivation and what's between his ears. He needs to land in good spot. A crap team would probably ruin him.
Always great to learn from a comparable player. Not sure I can pinpoint a comparable to him right now. Gotta think about it.
Josh smith? Mayybe?
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Josh Smith is a good one. I was thinking Michael Beasley.
We better stop though before the " thread off track" police come at us. ;)
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Shawn Marion? He has a horrifically ugly shot and somehow was a three point shooter for a US Olympic Team*.
*On second thought, we should just forget they even played basketball at the Olympics that year and never bring this topic up ever again.
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Shawn Marion? He has a horrifically ugly shot and somehow was a three point shooter for a US Olympic Team*.
*On second thought, we should just forget they even played basketball at the Olympics that year and never bring this topic up ever again.
Sean Marion is a sensational athlete. Jones seems much stiffer to me. But, yeah, what an ugly shot.
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Yeah I def would not have tj as second coming f Marion, just brining up another guy with an oh no shot who nevertheless had decent success from the outside.
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Had a workout with the Magic today
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Doug Gottlieb ranked his top 30 today. He's a nice person but thought y'all might be interested anyway. Has Moe at 17, MKG at 12 and Barnes in top 6 or so. Has Royce White at number 5 as well. Here's what he says about Moe:
17. Moe Harkless, St. John's Red Storm
I'm not totally sold on taking Kidd-Gilchrist ahead of Harkless, as Harkless has the scoring skill and perimeter ability that MKG lacks. Harkless does need to continue to improve his range, but as a 3 he has size, can rebound and definitely can score.
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I'm starting to think Moe might get drafted higher than many think because if his potential. Very possibly top 15.
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Shawn Marion? He has a horrifically ugly shot and somehow was a three point shooter for a US Olympic Team*.
*On second thought, we should just forget they even played basketball at the Olympics that year and never bring this topic up ever again.
S Marion had unbelievable first step and quickness. Got to hoop from 30 ft out as fast as any guard.
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On my Celtics sites, heard some rumors Moe is a target...I believe they are bringing him in for a workout soon. Also heard the Celtics are considering packaging both their picks to trade up for "someone." Not sure if the "someone" might be Moe, or maybe Lil Doc (though I doubt that), but I've always said that I think Moe is the type of player Ainge salivates over (history of drafting HS or underclassmen with first round picks --- Perkins, Gerald Green, Rondo (who they traded for that pick on draft day))
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On my Celtics sites, heard some rumors Moe is a target...I believe they are bringing him in for a workout soon. Also heard the Celtics are considering packaging both their picks to trade up for "someone." Not sure if the "someone" might be Moe, or maybe Lil Doc (though I doubt that), but I've always said that I think Moe is the type of player Ainge salivates over (history of drafting HS or underclassmen with first round picks --- Perkins, Gerald Green, Rondo (who they traded for that pick on draft day))
Drifting OT here, Kid. But on your Celtic sites (and as a UCLA/Lavin fan) - does it look like Ryan Hollins has done enuf to be invited back next season?
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Yeah, CR, for the most part everyone is pretty happy with Hollins and would like him back. I sure would. A full year/training camp learning under the staff and mentoring by KG would do him wonders, I think. The only "negatives" on Hollins is that he has taken time from Stiemsma, but I think part of that was actually due to lingering Stiemsma injuries. Everyone has loved his energy!
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“@ECoastBias: Moe Harkless' path to the 2012 NBA Draft: workout list, mock draft status #stjbb http://t.co/YrOERfDU (http://t.co/YrOERfDU)”
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http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/name/nba_draft/id/7995832/2012-nba-draft-scenarios-top-10-picks (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/name/nba_draft/id/7995832/2012-nba-draft-scenarios-top-10-picks)
The Raptors expect to have big man Jonas Valanciunas with the team this season. If he were in this draft, I think he would've been the No. 2 overall pick. At No. 8, look for them to add a player to their backcourt who can go out and get his own shot. They've been looking hard at Syracuse's Dion Waiters, Washington's Terrence Ross, Lamb and Lillard. The one sleeper pick for them might be St. John's freshman Moe Harkless. Sources say he is in the mix at No. 8.
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On my Celtics sites, heard some rumors Moe is a target...I believe they are bringing him in for a workout soon. Also heard the Celtics are considering packaging both their picks to trade up for "someone." Not sure if the "someone" might be Moe, or maybe Lil Doc (though I doubt that), but I've always said that I think Moe is the type of player Ainge salivates over (history of drafting HS or underclassmen with first round picks --- Perkins, Gerald Green, Rondo (who they traded for that pick on draft day))
I actually think the Celtics might be one of the better places for Moe longterm. Can learn from and be the successor for Pierce, he would have a great PG who likes to run, be under a really good coach and management team, and if Moe gets to be big time he can be really marketable in a market like Boston.
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I hate the Celtics (ever since Clyde was going against Jo Jo White) but it would be a good spot for Moe.
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Yeah, CR, for the most part everyone is pretty happy with Hollins and would like him back. I sure would. A full year/training camp learning under the staff and mentoring by KG would do him wonders, I think. The only "negatives" on Hollins is that he has taken time from Stiemsma, but I think part of that was actually due to lingering Stiemsma injuries. Everyone has loved his energy!
Something I wonder if Boston fans realize, realtive to "Hollins taking time from Stiemsma". While true Stiemsma is a promising Rookie this year after battling up from the D-league, and Hollins is a 6 year league veteren, Steimsma was born Sept. 26, 1985. Ryan Hollins is LESS than ONE year older - born October 10, 1984. There's still "upside" to BOTH, but only one of them was also a college sprinter, a 7 foot 1 high Jumper (yes, he can jump an inch taller than he stands!), a 23 foot long jumper, and a 49 foot triple jumper - in other words, wth the right coaching and mentoring, it's possible the ceiling is actually higher still for Hollins...
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Not sure if it was already posted but Chad Mock Mock 6th has Moe going to Celtics at 21.
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http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/name/nba_draft/id/8011774/nba-draft-five-undervalued-players-stock-rise (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/name/nba_draft/id/8011774/nba-draft-five-undervalued-players-stock-rise)
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Baldi and Majerus seen in New Rochelle breaking bread. Rick follows Baldi's advice! What a guy!
“@JonRothstein: Majerus also said he'd take St. John's F Moe Harkless ahead of Kentucky's Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.....big fan of the Red Storm wing.”
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Per Chad Ford in his blog:
"Teams loved St. John's forward Moe Harkless as well. He shot the ball well in the workouts and just showed off his impressive athletic abilities. Many NBA scouts believe he could be one player that rises into the Top 10 by draft night."
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/name/nba_draft/id/8024902/nba-draft-lillard-white-impress-combine-day-1 (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/name/nba_draft/id/8024902/nba-draft-lillard-white-impress-combine-day-1)
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real happy for hark.. he also seems like a character guy that would have no off court issues wherever he goes... Anywhere but Boston pleeeeasseeee... :)
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Moe measured out very well at the combine today over 6'8 , Big hands and great reach
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As a 50 years + Celtic fan I would love for Moe to wear Green. Key factor may be health status of Jeff Greene who Celtics are sorely missing vs. Heat.
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I really think my Golden State Warriors are going to take him.
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Moe measured out very well at the combine today over 6'8 , Big hands and great reach
Could I see that link please?
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Moe measured out very well at the combine today over 6'8 , Big hands and great reach
Could I see that link please?
Found that link. http://www.nbadraft.net/2012-nba-combine-measurements (http://www.nbadraft.net/2012-nba-combine-measurements)
Interesting that Drummand is pretty solid 7footer in shoes.
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interview at combine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n17DWt8hjR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n17DWt8hjR)
Moe Harkless - 2012 NBA Draft Combine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79N_RIjkPjg#ws)
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Rudy Gay & Paul George.
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Detailed video breaking down his strengths and weaknesses from draftexpress.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Moe-Harkless-Video-Scouting-Report-3959/ (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Moe-Harkless-Video-Scouting-Report-3959/)
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Detailed video breaking down his strengths and weaknesses from draftexpress.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Moe-Harkless-Video-Scouting-Report-3959/ (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Moe-Harkless-Video-Scouting-Report-3959/)
Best case Trevor Ariza? Best Case? No way
And I dont think Moe was part of either the First Team all Big east or first team all big east defensive teams
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Detailed video breaking down his strengths and weaknesses from draftexpress.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Moe-Harkless-Video-Scouting-Report-3959/ (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Moe-Harkless-Video-Scouting-Report-3959/)
Best case Trevor Ariza? Best Case? No way
And I dont think Moe was part of either the First Team all Big east or first team all big east defensive teams
Even weirder, their "best case" (Ariza) and "worst case" (Devin Ebanks) are essentially the SAME player. Both were 4pts 3 rebs in their 2nd years in the NBA. And neither were close to being the rebounder Moe is. If they mean Moe has a chance to be what Ariza became (one time!) in his SIXTH year in the league (a 15 pt/6 reb wing), I could see that, but I don't see it taking 6 years. I think that could be his career levels, not his "best season" numbers. There are much better comparisons out there.
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Detailed video breaking down his strengths and weaknesses from draftexpress.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Moe-Harkless-Video-Scouting-Report-3959/ (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Moe-Harkless-Video-Scouting-Report-3959/)
Best case Trevor Ariza? Best Case? No way
And I dont think Moe was part of either the First Team all Big east or first team all big east defensive teams
Even weirder, their "best case" (Ariza) and "worst case" (Devin Ebanks) are essentially the SAME player. Both were 4pts 3 rebs in their 2nd years in the NBA. And neither were close to being the rebounder Moe is. If they mean Moe has a chance to be what Ariza became (one time!) in his SIXTH year in the league (a 15 pt/6 reb wing), I could see that, but I don't see it taking 6 years. I think that could be his career levels, not his "best season" numbers. There are much better comparisons out there.
Moe's "upside" has got to be all-star caliber... like a Marion or Rudy Gay.
Not saying he's going to be either of those players, but if we're talking "best case" his ceiling is much higher than Ariza. No offense to Ariza, like CR said he's had some very respectable seasons. But Moe has a higher ceiling, mostly because he has more length and can rebound/ play down low a bit more.
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From Chad Ford:
Harkless also appeared to make the leap this weekend, going from interesting prospect to potential lottery pick. He still has a ways to go as far as making his game translate to the next level, but the raw athletic ability and elite size for his position, combined with an excellent showing both on the court and in interviews seems to have really improved his stock. I've heard his name as high as No. 7 to the Golden State Warriors and No. 8 to the Toronto Raptors.
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nba_draft&id=8036913&b=1339464819898 (http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nba_draft&id=8036913&b=1339464819898)
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Wow. Moe as a lottery pick would be AMAZING, both for SJU and Moe. Hope that comes to fruition.
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From Chad Ford:
Harkless also appeared to make the leap this weekend, going from interesting prospect to potential lottery pick. He still has a ways to go as far as making his game translate to the next level, but the raw athletic ability and elite size for his position, combined with an excellent showing both on the court and in interviews seems to have really improved his stock. I've heard his name as high as No. 7 to the Golden State Warriors and No. 8 to the Toronto Raptors.
http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nba_draft&id=8036913&b=1339464819898 (http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=nba_draft&id=8036913&b=1339464819898)
Fantastic news... Want Moe to go as high as possible..
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Detailed video breaking down his strengths and weaknesses from draftexpress.
http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Moe-Harkless-Video-Scouting-Report-3959/ (http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Moe-Harkless-Video-Scouting-Report-3959/)
Best case Trevor Ariza? Best Case? No way
And I dont think Moe was part of either the First Team all Big east or first team all big east defensive teams
I hate the term "best case". Who's to say what Moe's limits are? He can be as good as he want to be
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The NBA has released the results of the athletic testing from the combine (the announced height/weight last week). Here's the link: http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=2012&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&source=NBA%20Draft%20Combine&sort=12 (http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?year=2012&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&source=NBA%20Draft%20Combine&sort=12)
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Lloyd Daniels. Felipe Lopez. Lenny Cooke. Sebastian Telfair. Even Lance Stephenson.
Moe Harkless knows the names and was fully prepared for the questions that came his way last week while in Chicago for the NBA Draft Combine.
The NBA higher-ups wanted to know why Harkless is different, why he won't join the group of overhyped New Yorkers who have underachieved in their quest for greatness.
"I wasn't highly touted," Harkless said. "It kept my head on straight."
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/19360016/with-his-maturity-skilled-harkless-sets-himself-apart-from-nyc-forebears (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/19360016/with-his-maturity-skilled-harkless-sets-himself-apart-from-nyc-forebears)
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Mo B as good as his motor allows. League no joke. Busting ass every game most important, especially for those starting out.
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Lloyd Daniels. Felipe Lopez. Lenny Cooke. Sebastian Telfair. Even Lance Stephenson.
Moe Harkless knows the names and was fully prepared for the questions that came his way last week while in Chicago for the NBA Draft Combine.
The NBA higher-ups wanted to know why Harkless is different, why he won't join the group of overhyped New Yorkers who have underachieved in their quest for greatness.
"I wasn't highly touted," Harkless said. "It kept my head on straight."
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/19360016/with-his-maturity-skilled-harkless-sets-himself-apart-from-nyc-forebears (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/19360016/with-his-maturity-skilled-harkless-sets-himself-apart-from-nyc-forebears)
Mo is mature beyond his years. Credit to his mom for raising him up well.
I went from thinking he should have come back for 1 more year to now I can't wait for draft night to see how high he goes
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Lloyd Daniels. Felipe Lopez. Lenny Cooke. Sebastian Telfair. Even Lance Stephenson.
Moe Harkless knows the names and was fully prepared for the questions that came his way last week while in Chicago for the NBA Draft Combine.
The NBA higher-ups wanted to know why Harkless is different, why he won't join the group of overhyped New Yorkers who have underachieved in their quest for greatness.
"I wasn't highly touted," Harkless said. "It kept my head on straight."
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/19360016/with-his-maturity-skilled-harkless-sets-himself-apart-from-nyc-forebears (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/19360016/with-his-maturity-skilled-harkless-sets-himself-apart-from-nyc-forebears)
Mo is mature beyond his years. Credit to his mom for raising him up well.
I went from thinking he should have come back for 1 more year to now I can't wait for draft night to see how high he goes
+1
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Heard yesterday that the Pacers are REALLY hoping he falls to them but I don't see it happening at this point.
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Inside Moe's training per Lenn:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/moe_at_work_djZrae7jQ8kJqWzb4kwFAP (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/moe_at_work_djZrae7jQ8kJqWzb4kwFAP)
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Hoopsrumors.com's first mock draft predicts Moe going #7 to the Warriors!
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/hoops-rumors-mock-draft-version-10.html#more (http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/hoops-rumors-mock-draft-version-10.html#more)
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Lloyd Daniels. Felipe Lopez. Lenny Cooke. Sebastian Telfair. Even Lance Stephenson.
Moe Harkless knows the names and was fully prepared for the questions that came his way last week while in Chicago for the NBA Draft Combine.
The NBA higher-ups wanted to know why Harkless is different, why he won't join the group of overhyped New Yorkers who have underachieved in their quest for greatness.
"I wasn't highly touted," Harkless said. "It kept my head on straight."
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/19360016/with-his-maturity-skilled-harkless-sets-himself-apart-from-nyc-forebears (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/19360016/with-his-maturity-skilled-harkless-sets-himself-apart-from-nyc-forebears)
Mo is mature beyond his years. Credit to his mom for raising him up well.
I went from thinking he should have come back for 1 more year to now I can't wait for draft night to see how high he goes
+1
+1 million
nothing would make me happier than to see a good local kid make it to the league.
on another note, we could possibly have 5 johnnies in the league next year: Artest, Moe, DJ, Burell, Hardy
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on another note, we could possibly have 5 johnnies in the league next year: Artest, Moe, DJ, Burell, Hardy
Have Hardy & Burrell been invited to camps or asked to particpate in summer Leagues with anyone..?
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http://rushthecourt.net/2012/06/18/rtc-nba-draft-profiles-moe-harkless/ (http://rushthecourt.net/2012/06/18/rtc-nba-draft-profiles-moe-harkless/)
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on another note, we could possibly have 5 johnnies in the league next year: Artest, Moe, DJ, Burell, Hardy
Have Hardy & Burrell been invited to camps or asked to particpate in summer Leagues with anyone..?
Burrell is working out for the Warriors this week. And Hardy just ended his season in Italy. Have to believe he gets a look by an NBA team.
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on another note, we could possibly have 5 johnnies in the league next year: Artest, Moe, DJ, Burell, Hardy
Have Hardy & Burrell been invited to camps or asked to particpate in summer Leagues with anyone..?
Burrell is working out for the Warriors this week. And Hardy just ended his season in Italy. Have to believe he gets a look by an NBA team.
They're both long shots, might need another year at higher levels of competition, but I wish them both the best of luck.
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Lots of us thought Moe would benefit from an extra year. I was mistaken. He'll likely go lottery pick this year, which is fantastic for Moe. It's all any SJU could want for the kid. Kudos to Nate Blue as well on this one as it seems Moe wasn't making a mistake and rather listening to the right people and at the same time believing in what Moe's value was right now. He still has to get drafted, but I think he'll go high. Moe has very few question marks for these teams, and great character to match. Hope Moe stays involved with the program.
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Thanks... Moe will always be involved in st johns mens and womens basketball fundraisers or whatever is asked. The entire basketball staff including mark fratto, ron and others all made it possible. Now, all he can do is hopefully land on a good team and a solid organization and watch moe grow. Alot of lottery teams are there for a reason. So, havent really been trying to just go "as high as possible"... But the key word is organization... St johns was a good organization.. So keep that in mind on draft night. Anyway, off to portland, dallas, houston, sac, and gsw.. Always good to read the board.
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Thanks... Moe will always be involved in st johns mens and womens basketball fundraisers or whatever is asked. The entire basketball staff including mark fratto, ron and others all made it possible. Now, all he can do is hopefully land on a good team and a solid organization and watch moe grow. Alot of lottery teams are there for a reason. So, havent really been trying to just go "as high as possible"... But the key word is organization... St johns was a good organization.. So keep that in mind on draft night. Anyway, off to portland, dallas, houston, sac, and gsw.. Always good to read the board.
good luck man!
as someone who grew up in Jamaica, Queens, makes me proud to see a local kid succeed. congrats to you and the family.
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Inside Moe's training per Lenn:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/moe_at_work_djZrae7jQ8kJqWzb4kwFAP (http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/basketball/moe_at_work_djZrae7jQ8kJqWzb4kwFAP)
Good article by Lenn, thanks for posting it Fordham.
Our friends up north apparently read the nyc papers too. They weren't too thrilled with this quote from Moe's trainer at IMG (talking about Moe's mentality to be the best )..
"He told me there was another kid in his prep school, Ricky Ledo, who a lot of people were talking about. Moe ran him out of the school. He just put it in his mind that he was going to go after that kid every day on the court.".
PC fans are having a conniption.
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=425&f=1323&t=9082656&p=1 (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=425&f=1323&t=9082656&p=1)
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Lots of us thought Moe would benefit from an extra year. I was mistaken. He'll likely go lottery pick this year, which is fantastic for Moe. It's all any SJU could want for the kid. Kudos to Nate Blue as well on this one as it seems Moe wasn't making a mistake and rather listening to the right people and at the same time believing in what Moe's value was right now. He still has to get drafted, but I think he'll go high. Moe has very few question marks for these teams, and great character to match. Hope Moe stays involved with the program.
I wish Moe the best. But weather he should have returned for another year will be determined by his performance on the court & development his first couple of seasons, not his draft status
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Great article:
http://m.cbssports.com/s/showPage.do?siteId=102321&pageId=8519130&arena=College%20Basketball&linkId=19360088&type=MINICOVER&articleId=19360088&iPhoneMode=true (http://m.cbssports.com/s/showPage.do?siteId=102321&pageId=8519130&arena=College%20Basketball&linkId=19360088&type=MINICOVER&articleId=19360088&iPhoneMode=true)
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Great article:
http://m.cbssports.com/s/showPage.do?siteId=102321&pageId=8519130&arena=College%20Basketball&linkId=19360088&type=MINICOVER&articleId=19360088&iPhoneMode=true (http://m.cbssports.com/s/showPage.do?siteId=102321&pageId=8519130&arena=College%20Basketball&linkId=19360088&type=MINICOVER&articleId=19360088&iPhoneMode=true)
The links not working for me Poison
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Sam Amick of SI.com has Moe going 19th.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/06/20/nba-mock-draft-2012/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a0 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/06/20/nba-mock-draft-2012/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a0)
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Here's a video of the Mos workout with the trailblazers yesterday. Didn't get to watch the whole thing, but his shot looked good.
http://www.nba.com/blazers/tbtv/video.html?videoID=3794 (http://www.nba.com/blazers/tbtv/video.html?videoID=3794)
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“@NYPost_Brazille: Heard @Moeharkless lit it up at workout with Golden State today, per a source. #nycstandup #stjbb”
Nate!
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Sam Amick of SI.com has Moe going 19th.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/06/20/nba-mock-draft-2012/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a0 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/06/20/nba-mock-draft-2012/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a0)
I still think he will go higher. I don't think there are 18 better, but who knows?
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“@NYPost_Brazille: Heard @Moeharkless lit it up at workout with Golden State today, per a source. #nycstandup #stjbb”
Nate!
I know for a fact that they were very intrigued by him way before his workout. . .
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Anyone know if Moe was invited to the Green Room? If not, will he be attending anyway since its in the NY area?
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Anyone know if Moe was invited to the Green Room? If not, will he be attending anyway since its in the NY area?
No list seems to be out there just yet. Only thing for certain is Sullinger wasn't invited supposedly.
http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/8094012/2012-nba-draft-former-ohio-state-bucketes-star-jared-sullinger-not-invited-draft (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/8094012/2012-nba-draft-former-ohio-state-bucketes-star-jared-sullinger-not-invited-draft)
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But weather he should have returned for another year will be determined by his performance on the court & development his first couple of seasons, not his draft status
This statement is just wrong...
I will admit to thinking at first that Harkless was making a mistake leaving early and I was wrong. Whether or not it was right decision is entirely based on his draft status. As a first round pick he gets guaranteed money and starts the clock on his second contract. He is proving he belongs in work outs.
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But weather he should have returned for another year will be determined by his performance on the court & development his first couple of seasons, not his draft status
This statement is just wrong...
I will admit to thinking at first that Harkless was making a mistake leaving early and I was wrong. Whether or not it was right decision is entirely based on his draft status. As a first round pick he gets guaranteed money and starts the clock on his second contract. He is proving he belongs in work outs.
I was wrong too and agree with Pat. I thought he was going in the mid 20's or later.
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“@AdamZagoria: One source close to Moe Harkless says his gut tells him the Trail Blazers will select Harkless at No. 11 in ... http://t.co/bqgAikLy (http://t.co/bqgAikLy)”
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“@AdamZagoria: One source close to Moe Harkless says his gut tells him the Trail Blazers will select Harkless at No. 11 in ... http://t.co/bqgAikLy (http://t.co/bqgAikLy)”
Well, Zagoria better not be using JohnnyJungle as his source because Tha Kid has no inside information...but might be earning a title of "The Swami" if I nail this one (predicted 11 to Blazers this morning in the prediction thread)!
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“@AdamZagoria: One source close to Moe Harkless says his gut tells him the Trail Blazers will select Harkless at No. 11 in ... http://t.co/bqgAikLy (http://t.co/bqgAikLy)”
Well, Zagoria better not be using JohnnyJungle as his source because Tha Kid has no inside information...but might be earning a title of "The Swami" if I nail this one (predicted 11 to Blazers this morning in the prediction thread)!
Not sure if this was already posted, but SI's Sam Amick reported today that Houston might be trading its 14th and/or 16th picks with Sacramento to get its 5th pick, and in this regard, the owners of the Kings asked Moe if he would work out for them today before leaving California--the implication being that the Kings would scoop up Moe with either the 14th or 16th pick (assuming, of course, Moe last that long in the draft ;)).
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/06/25/nba-draft-key-questions-picks-trades/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a0 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/sam_amick/06/25/nba-draft-key-questions-picks-trades/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t11_a0)
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Looks like he isn't invited
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/nba-invites-14-players-to-draft-green-room.html (http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/nba-invites-14-players-to-draft-green-room.html)
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Looks like he isn't invited
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/nba-invites-14-players-to-draft-green-room.html (http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/nba-invites-14-players-to-draft-green-room.html)
I nominate Lamb or Rivers as the two who could be the last in the green room.
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I think Thomas Robinson will be a bust. If Jordan drafts him, he will regret it at #2. If it were me, I'd take Kidd -Gilchrist.
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I think Thomas Robinson will be a bust. If Jordan drafts him, he will regret it at #2. If it were me, I'd take Kidd -Gilchrist.
Agreed, not high on Lamb and Henson either
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I think Thomas Robinson will be a bust. If Jordan drafts him, he will regret it at #2. If it were me, I'd take Kidd -Gilchrist.
I like Beal a lot. I would take him at 2.
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I think Thomas Robinson will be a bust. If Jordan drafts him, he will regret it at #2. If it were me, I'd take Kidd -Gilchrist.
Agreed, not high on Lamb and Henson either
Just looking at last years draft - who went where and when, how they performed, and which among THEM I'd take head to head over Harkless.
Noticed some interesting stats - of the 60 draft picks last year, a grand total of five were able to impact the league to the tune of 10 pts or more. A total of TWO were able to pull down 6 or more rebs. Only TWO dished as many as 4 assists. Only 2 were able to hit 50% from the floor. Only 2 were able to hit 40% or better from the Arc. 6 were able to hit 80% or better from the line. Only two were able to earn 30 minutes of floor time.
How hard is it to impress in the league as a rookie? Iman Shumpert didn't qualify in ANY of those categories I just listed. And he was one of the rookie STARS last season.
That's why I shake my head everytime I read one of the gurus take on Moe that he's a "developmental" draft pick, with a high upside, who may not impact early. Hardly ANYONE impacts early. But I'd be shocked if whereiver Mo ends up (assuming there are SOME minutes available) if he isn't a 7-10 pt, 5-7 reb player as a rookie.
As to my original thought on looking up last years draft, there's only 4 players I'd take over Moe, and that would be tempered by need, as two of them are PGS....
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Zeller or Leonard could slip too. Rumor is lil doc has been rising almost as fast as moe and could go between 5-10. We'll see.
Looks like he isn't invited
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/nba-invites-14-players-to-draft-green-room.html (http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/nba-invites-14-players-to-draft-green-room.html)
I nominate Lamb or Rivers as the two who could be the last in the green room.
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Would imagine Moe coming back to NYC to enjoy this moment with his whole family.
Man, I've gone from being upset about him leaving early to being ecstatic for him. Can't wait for his named to get called.
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Would imagine Moe coming back to NYC to enjoy this moment with his whole family.
Man, I've gone from being upset about him leaving early to being ecstatic for him. Can't wait for his named to get called.
He is coming back to NY. I'd like to hope he goes to the Draft in person to enjoy it. NBA Draft often has lots of players who come on their own dime to enjoy the moment of getting called. Hope Moe does as well.
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I think Thomas Robinson will be a bust. If Jordan drafts him, he will regret it at #2. If it were me, I'd take Kidd -Gilchrist.
Agreed, not high on Lamb and Henson either
Just looking at last years draft - who went where and when, how they performed, and which among THEM I'd take head to head over Harkless.
Noticed some interesting stats - of the 60 draft picks last year, a grand total of five were able to impact the league to the tune of 10 pts or more. A total of TWO were able to pull down 6 or more rebs. Only TWO dished as many as 4 assists. Only 2 were able to hit 50% from the floor. Only 2 were able to hit 40% or better from the Arc. 6 were able to hit 80% or better from the line. Only two were able to earn 30 minutes of floor time.
How hard is it to impress in the league as a rookie? Iman Shumpert didn't qualify in ANY of those categories I just listed. And he was one of the rookie STARS last season.
That's why I shake my head everytime I read one of the gurus take on Moe that he's a "developmental" draft pick, with a high upside, who may not impact early. Hardly ANYONE impacts early. But I'd be shocked if whereiver Mo ends up (assuming there are SOME minutes available) if he isn't a 7-10 pt, 5-7 reb player as a rookie.
As to my original thought on looking up last years draft, there's only 4 players I'd take over Moe, and that would be tempered by need, as two of them are PGS....
Last year was a very weak draft due to the labor issues
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Looks like he isn't invited
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/nba-invites-14-players-to-draft-green-room.html (http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/nba-invites-14-players-to-draft-green-room.html)
http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/06/25/st-johns-harkless-may-be-headed-out-west/ (http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/06/25/st-johns-harkless-may-be-headed-out-west/)
When he arrives back in New York, Harkless plans to attend the Draft in Newark, regardless of whether’s he’s invited among the Green Room participants.
“Oh, yeah, I think so,” he said.
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RT @Jonathan_Feigen: Rockets have dealt Chase Budinger to Minn for 18th pick
Rockets are piling up the draft picks (14,16,18). If they can't trade for Dwight, can't imagine Moe gets by where they pick.
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Is anyone thinking of going and supporting MOE?
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Looks like he isn't invited
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/nba-invites-14-players-to-draft-green-room.html (http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/nba-invites-14-players-to-draft-green-room.html)
http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/06/25/st-johns-harkless-may-be-headed-out-west/ (http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/06/25/st-johns-harkless-may-be-headed-out-west/)
When he arrives back in New York, Harkless plans to attend the Draft in Newark, regardless of whether’s he’s invited among the Green Room participants.
“Oh, yeah, I think so,” he said.
He definitely should. If I were him I'd sit up in the nosebleeds and high-five everyone on the way down to the stage.
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Seth Davis talked to an NBA scout about 52 different draft prospects including Moe:
Moe Harkless, 6-9 forward, St. John's: "We interviewed him. Talk about a sharp kid. He was raised well. He still has to develop his skill set, but I think he goes in the middle of the first round. He doesn't dribble, but he has a soft touch and shoots it decently. Two years from now, we might be saying, 'Wow, that guy was picked 20th?'"
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/seth_davis/06/25/NBA-draft/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t12_a0 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/seth_davis/06/25/NBA-draft/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_t12_a0)
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This means absolutely zero but ESPN had a mock draft conducted by one player from each team. Moe wasn't picked in Rd 1.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/8093492/nba-draft-espn-magazine-holds-fourth-players-only-mock-draft (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/8093492/nba-draft-espn-magazine-holds-fourth-players-only-mock-draft)
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Looks like he isn't invited
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/nba-invites-14-players-to-draft-green-room.html (http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2012/06/nba-invites-14-players-to-draft-green-room.html)
http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/06/25/st-johns-harkless-may-be-headed-out-west/ (http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/06/25/st-johns-harkless-may-be-headed-out-west/)
When he arrives back in New York, Harkless plans to attend the Draft in Newark, regardless of whether’s he’s invited among the Green Room participants.
“Oh, yeah, I think so,” he said.
He definitely should. If I were him I'd sit up in the nosebleeds and high-five everyone on the way down to the stage.
He and Machado
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Harkless should definitely go. And watch everyone in the green room green with envy when he's picked in the lottery and some of them are still waiting...I know the NBA does this to avoid the guy who drops to late first round and has been alone in the green room for an hour which is just plain sad, but hey, since when did the NBA do anything to REDUCE drama out of concern for a young player's well-being. Only instance I can think of.
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“@STJCoachLavin: Number 4 for Johnnies picked No 15 in 2012 NBA Draft! Pleased for Mo Harkless and his family! Johnnie Nation buzzin! Momentum! Hammer2Rock.”
Love this guy!
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Congrats Moe!
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Maurice (Moe) Harkless is leaving New York – pretty much a given – but he won’t be far away. He was chosed 15th in the NBA Draft by the Philadelphia 76ers Thursday night at Prudential Center.
After commissioner David Stern called his name – and, yes, he called him Maurice – he rose to his feet from his seat in the stands and was embraced by his brother Tyler, 7. His mother Rosa stood and clapped, as did Red Storm coach Steve Lavin.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/maurice-moe-harkless-selected-15th-2012-nba-draft-philadelphia-76ers-article-1.1104331#ixzz1z8wTkSWf (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/maurice-moe-harkless-selected-15th-2012-nba-draft-philadelphia-76ers-article-1.1104331#ixzz1z8wTkSWf)
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After more than three months of waiting and debating, Moe Harkless is in the NBA.
The 6-foot-8 small forward who spent only one year playing at St. John’s was selected 15th overall by the Philadelphia 76ers – becoming the first Red Storm player in 12 years to be a first-round pick.
The Jamaica, Queens native joins other Red Storm alumni like Erick Barkley and Ron Artest to go in the first round. The highest draft pick in St. John’s history was Sonny Dove, who in 1967 was selected fourth-overall by the Detroit Pistons. The most recent draft pick produced by the school was Omar Cook, who went in the second round of the 2001 draft and now plays for the Montenegrin National Basketball Team.
http://queenscourier.com/2012/moe-harkless-drafted-by-philadelphia-76ers/ (http://queenscourier.com/2012/moe-harkless-drafted-by-philadelphia-76ers/)
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Luv the glen plaid suit.
Classic stylin.
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The 76ers picked St. John's forward Maurice "Moe" Harkless with the 15th pick in the NBA draft Thursday night.
The Sixers said they like Harkless' athleticism. At 6-foot-8, they have drafted a player who is a good scorer (15.3 points) and rebounder (8.6).
Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20120628_76ers_take_Moe_Harkless_with_15th_pick.html?cmpid=137039688#ixzz1z8xoYuLz (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/20120628_76ers_take_Moe_Harkless_with_15th_pick.html?cmpid=137039688#ixzz1z8xoYuLz)
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Luv the glen plaid suit.
Classic stylin.
Choz,I called your boss and he said you can take off tomorrow. LOL! Enjoyed your commentary man!
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“@AdamZagoria: A Lifetime Knicks Fan, Harkless Now a Sixer http://t.co/idcolR6p (http://t.co/idcolR6p) #stjbb”
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Oh man. Serious. One of the Plums?
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Lemme tell y'all sumtin.
Joe Klein and Jon Koncak was selected over:
Chris Mullin
Detlef
Oak
The Mailman
Joe Dumars
A.C. Virg
Terry Porter
Hot Rod Williams
Gerald Wilkins
Manute
Bill Wennington
All in '85.
Size is most def overrated.
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Can't get a direct link but video of Maurice getting picked is on nba.com
http://www.nba.com/draft/2012/ (http://www.nba.com/draft/2012/)
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Rod Thorn on Maurice-
http://origin.nba.com/sixers/video/120628-thorn-harkless (http://origin.nba.com/sixers/video/120628-thorn-harkless)
mentions a number of times they expect him to grow more.
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Rod Thorn on Maurice-
http://origin.nba.com/sixers/video/120628-thorn-harkless (http://origin.nba.com/sixers/video/120628-thorn-harkless)
mentions a number of times they expect him to grow more.
I mentioned a while back that the word around town was moe could reach 6'10 and that was part of the incentive that made him declare.
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Nice job moe. You can play along side with evan turner......a true buckeyestorm combo!
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http://m.espn.go.com/general/chat/chat?eventId=44393&page=12 (http://m.espn.go.com/general/chat/chat?eventId=44393&page=12)
Maurice chatting it up on Espn
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Those numbers didn't scare off Philadelphia. Harkless impressed the Sixers staff when he worked out at the team's practice facility.
"He made 37 of 50 3-pointers,'' Thorn said. "He's obviously working on his shot. His shot is fine. He just needs repetition with it. We feel he'll be a good shooter.''
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/basketball/nba/wires/06/28/2030.ap.bkn.draft.76ers.2nd.ld.writethru.0762/index.html#ixzz1z984vtwi (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/basketball/nba/wires/06/28/2030.ap.bkn.draft.76ers.2nd.ld.writethru.0762/index.html#ixzz1z984vtwi)
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I think he'll be an extremely good shooter. He had fine trajectory and motion. I think most of his shooting problem was lack of wrist follow through. When he came to SJU he would pop outside shots he'd feather his fingers and still have his fingers pointed to the ceiling. I noticed that during his draft workout videos, he has really worked to correct his wrist follow-through and it certainly helped. It looked much more crisp when he released the ball. I think it started to improve second half of season, but he needs lots more reps.
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Oh man. Serious. One of the Plums?
As a Duke alum and fan....you are absolutely right about miles. Supreme height and athleticism (one of the best verts of allll players, not jsut bigs) but the guy averaged 6 and 6 as a senior at duke. Low bball iq and just makes dumb plays. Hell either be end of bench guy for long time, or leave to europe in a few years, depending on how much he improves.
Mason on the other hand will be worthy of a late first round pick next year. Hes got much more skill and basketball smarts than miles.
Fab Melo is the big man who didnt deserve a first round pick....unfort by my celtics. D'oh! Though ill givr danny a reprieve cuz the sullinger pick was great.
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Cngrats to Moe! Got a good young team and gets to play pretty close to home. Cant wait to see him play in the NBA!
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Congrats to Mo and his family. Really happy to see him go that high and to Philly. Would have been happy with him going to any team but Boston. Looking forward to catching a Knicks v Philly game
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Hey Marillac,
Just wanted to let you know that Moe went 23 picks before your boy Quincy Miller who should have stayed in school - like all of his Baylor teammates. Maurice Harkless is the superior prospect in the eyes of NBA GMs. Go st johns!
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“@QSTJHoops: Moe Harkless on the front page of http://t.co/kQyMtQLs (http://t.co/kQyMtQLs) this morning. #stjbb http://t.co/LEfZj7Ja (http://t.co/LEfZj7Ja)”
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Congrats to Mo and his family. Really happy to see him go that high and to Philly. Would have been happy with him going to any team but Boston. Looking forward to catching a Knicks v Philly game
+1
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Nice article that also notes SJU still in it w Whitehead, Mc Cullough and Lawrence. Zach does a great job covering local hoops!
“@NYPost_Brazille: Braziller: Harkless perfect example for city stars http://t.co/or96Nj0u (http://t.co/or96Nj0u) via @newyorkpost”
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“@QSTJHoops: Moe Harkless on the front page of http://t.co/kQyMtQLs (http://t.co/kQyMtQLs) this morning. #stjbb http://t.co/LEfZj7Ja (http://t.co/LEfZj7Ja)”
The SI article is great. Puts Philly as one of the three top winners of the draft, in large part because they "stole" the raw but extremely talented Harkless. Can't buy better pr for the program than that!
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“@QSTJHoops: Moe Harkless on the front page of http://t.co/kQyMtQLs (http://t.co/kQyMtQLs) this morning. #stjbb http://t.co/LEfZj7Ja (http://t.co/LEfZj7Ja)”
The SI article is great. Puts Philly as one of the three top winners of the draft, in large part because they "stole" the raw but extremely talented Harkless. Can't buy better pr for the program than that!
To be fair I think they were a winner in their eyes by also nabbing Moultrie. If they just got Harkless I don't think they fall in there.
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“@QSTJHoops: Moe Harkless on the front page of http://t.co/kQyMtQLs (http://t.co/kQyMtQLs) this morning. #stjbb http://t.co/LEfZj7Ja (http://t.co/LEfZj7Ja)”
The SI article is great. Puts Philly as one of the three top winners of the draft, in large part because they "stole" the raw but extremely talented Harkless. Can't buy better pr for the program than that!
To be fair I think they were a winner in their eyes by also nabbing Moultrie. If they just got Harkless I don't think they fall in there.
True Moose, but Harkless was the headliner. :)
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In typical Philly fashion...they hate the pick. Comments , as usual, are great. The Philadelphia Tweeners...lol
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20120629_John_Smallwood__Harkless_doesn_t_meet_Sixers__needs__but_Moultrie_might_be_the_answer.html?jCount=2&#comments (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20120629_John_Smallwood__Harkless_doesn_t_meet_Sixers__needs__but_Moultrie_might_be_the_answer.html?jCount=2&#comments)
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“@QSTJHoops: Moe Harkless on the front page of http://t.co/kQyMtQLs (http://t.co/kQyMtQLs) this morning. #stjbb http://t.co/LEfZj7Ja (http://t.co/LEfZj7Ja)”
The SI article is great. Puts Philly as one of the three top winners of the draft, in large part because they "stole" the raw but extremely talented Harkless. Can't buy better pr for the program than that!
To be fair I think they were a winner in their eyes by also nabbing Moultrie. If they just got Harkless I don't think they fall in there.
The SI article is GREAT??? Could someone explain how Charlotte landing the 2nd best player int he draft (MKG) AND Jeff Taylor (who THEY refer to as a great two-way talent and one of the best athletes in the entire draft) rates only a B+, while the Bulls landing ONLY Marquis Teague rates an A? Or how they give the KNICKS an "A" with only Kostas Papanikolaou in maybe two years to show for the draft? Or the Kings getting an "A" with only Thomas Robinson (fine player - but sort of a push witht he Bobcat pick of MKG, but the Bobcats also land Taylor and score LOWER)??? Or OKC with an "A" for Perry Jones - did ANYONE have Jones better than MKG, even BEFORE they knew he had a bod knee??? Or the Griz get the same B+ as Charlotte while landing only Tony Wroten (who THEY say MIGHT be a good guard "if he can learn to shoot the ball and make good decisions" - if he can't shoot or make good decisions now, how is that a B+ pick???), Or the Spurs notiching also notching a "B+", apparently meaning in SI's eyes Marcus Denmon > MKG AND Jeff Taylor? OR the Nets getting a "B" for landing a backup to backup Jordan Farmar, and two Euros who may never come to the US? OR how he Heat rate a "B" for landing....Justin Hamilton? The TWolves a B for getting...ROBBIE HUMMELL?
I can SEE Philly landing the same B+ as Charlotte - I think a case could be made for Mo/Moutrie being a push with MKG/Taylor. But the rest of that article is a freaking MESS.
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“@QSTJHoops: Moe Harkless on the front page of http://t.co/kQyMtQLs (http://t.co/kQyMtQLs) this morning. #stjbb http://t.co/LEfZj7Ja (http://t.co/LEfZj7Ja)”
The SI article is great. Puts Philly as one of the three top winners of the draft, in large part because they "stole" the raw but extremely talented Harkless. Can't buy better pr for the program than that!
To be fair I think they were a winner in their eyes by also nabbing Moultrie. If they just got Harkless I don't think they fall in there.
The SI article is GREAT??? Could someone explain how Charlotte landing the 2nd best player int he draft (MKG) AND Jeff Taylor (who THEY refer to as a great two-way talent and one of the best athletes in the entire draft) rates only a B+, while the Bulls landing ONLY Marquis Teague rates an A? Or how they give the KNICKS an "A" with only Kostas Papanikolaou in maybe two years to show for the draft? Or the Kings getting an "A" with only Thomas Robinson (fine player - but sort of a push witht he Bobcat pick of MKG, but the Bobcats also land Taylor and score LOWER)??? Or OKC with an "A" for Perry Jones - did ANYONE have Jones better than MKG, even BEFORE they knew he had a bod knee??? Or the Griz get the same B+ as Charlotte while landing only Tony Wroten (who THEY say MIGHT be a good guard "if he can learn to shoot the ball and make good decisions" - if he can't shoot or make good decisions now, how is that a B+ pick???), Or the Spurs notiching also notching a "B+", apparently meaning in SI's eyes Marcus Denmon > MKG AND Jeff Taylor? OR the Nets getting a "B" for landing a backup to backup Jordan Farmar, and two Euros who may never come to the US? OR how he Heat rate a "B" for landing....Justin Hamilton? The TWolves a B for getting...ROBBIE HUMMELL?
I can SEE Philly landing the same B+ as Charlotte - I think a case could be made for Mo/Moutrie being a push with MKG/Taylor. But the rest of that article is a freaking MESS.
Thank you for quoting me and ranting when I never said the article was great.
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Nice article that also notes SJU still in it w Whitehead, Mc Cullough and Lawrence. Zach does a great job covering local hoops!
“@NYPost_Brazille: Braziller: Harkless perfect example for city stars http://t.co/or96Nj0u (http://t.co/or96Nj0u) via @newyorkpost”
You're right. Zach does an excellent job
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“@QSTJHoops: Moe Harkless on the front page of http://t.co/kQyMtQLs (http://t.co/kQyMtQLs) this morning. #stjbb http://t.co/LEfZj7Ja (http://t.co/LEfZj7Ja)”
The SI article is great. Puts Philly as one of the three top winners of the draft, in large part because they "stole" the raw but extremely talented Harkless. Can't buy better pr for the program than that!
To be fair I think they were a winner in their eyes by also nabbing Moultrie. If they just got Harkless I don't think they fall in there.
The SI article is GREAT??? Could someone explain how Charlotte landing the 2nd best player int he draft (MKG) AND Jeff Taylor (who THEY refer to as a great two-way talent and one of the best athletes in the entire draft) rates only a B+, while the Bulls landing ONLY Marquis Teague rates an A? Or how they give the KNICKS an "A" with only Kostas Papanikolaou in maybe two years to show for the draft? Or the Kings getting an "A" with only Thomas Robinson (fine player - but sort of a push witht he Bobcat pick of MKG, but the Bobcats also land Taylor and score LOWER)??? Or OKC with an "A" for Perry Jones - did ANYONE have Jones better than MKG, even BEFORE they knew he had a bod knee??? Or the Griz get the same B+ as Charlotte while landing only Tony Wroten (who THEY say MIGHT be a good guard "if he can learn to shoot the ball and make good decisions" - if he can't shoot or make good decisions now, how is that a B+ pick???), Or the Spurs notiching also notching a "B+", apparently meaning in SI's eyes Marcus Denmon > MKG AND Jeff Taylor? OR the Nets getting a "B" for landing a backup to backup Jordan Farmar, and two Euros who may never come to the US? OR how he Heat rate a "B" for landing....Justin Hamilton? The TWolves a B for getting...ROBBIE HUMMELL?
I can SEE Philly landing the same B+ as Charlotte - I think a case could be made for Mo/Moutrie being a push with MKG/Taylor. But the rest of that article is a freaking MESS.
Did you even read the SI article? Obviously it was based on who was available and the situation specific to each team. Otherwise, the argument could be made on talent alone New Orleans won the draft and everyone else failed.
The Heat for example, get a "B" because they can't afford to take on a first round guaranteed contract... so they traded the pick, got a future 1st rounder down the line, a 2nd rounder next year, and a potential backup center at a decent price. Not because Justin Hamilton = Jeremy Lamb, Royce White, and Terrence Jones. (the draft picks for the Rockets who also got a "B")
No one is saying Marcus Denmon is better than Glichrist alone, let alone Gilchrist and Jeff Taylor.
If you're going to rant, at least acknowledge that the grades for the article are based on situational value, not objective talent obtained. 'Come on man. You're better than that.
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“@QSTJHoops: Moe Harkless on the front page of http://t.co/kQyMtQLs (http://t.co/kQyMtQLs) this morning. #stjbb http://t.co/LEfZj7Ja (http://t.co/LEfZj7Ja)”
The SI article is great. Puts Philly as one of the three top winners of the draft, in large part because they "stole" the raw but extremely talented Harkless. Can't buy better pr for the program than that!
To be fair I think they were a winner in their eyes by also nabbing Moultrie. If they just got Harkless I don't think they fall in there.
The SI article is GREAT??? Could someone explain how Charlotte landing the 2nd best player int he draft (MKG) AND Jeff Taylor (who THEY refer to as a great two-way talent and one of the best athletes in the entire draft) rates only a B+, while the Bulls landing ONLY Marquis Teague rates an A? Or how they give the KNICKS an "A" with only Kostas Papanikolaou in maybe two years to show for the draft? Or the Kings getting an "A" with only Thomas Robinson (fine player - but sort of a push witht he Bobcat pick of MKG, but the Bobcats also land Taylor and score LOWER)??? Or OKC with an "A" for Perry Jones - did ANYONE have Jones better than MKG, even BEFORE they knew he had a bod knee??? Or the Griz get the same B+ as Charlotte while landing only Tony Wroten (who THEY say MIGHT be a good guard "if he can learn to shoot the ball and make good decisions" - if he can't shoot or make good decisions now, how is that a B+ pick???), Or the Spurs notiching also notching a "B+", apparently meaning in SI's eyes Marcus Denmon > MKG AND Jeff Taylor? OR the Nets getting a "B" for landing a backup to backup Jordan Farmar, and two Euros who may never come to the US? OR how he Heat rate a "B" for landing....Justin Hamilton? The TWolves a B for getting...ROBBIE HUMMELL?
I can SEE Philly landing the same B+ as Charlotte - I think a case could be made for Mo/Moutrie being a push with MKG/Taylor. But the rest of that article is a freaking MESS.
Um, when I said the article was great, it was only meant in the context of how SI was giving Philly high grades for drafting Moe, hence great for SJU and Moe that such positive publicity was being generated by SI's article. Moose then pointed out that Moultrie was a big part of Philly's drafting grade, and I think he's right. Sorry for the confusion. I obviously should have been more specific about what I thought was "great" about the article.
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Will never root against Moe even though he will wear an opposition uniform. will be at the Barclay to see him this year. Being selected by a fine talent evaluator as Rod Thorn is a compliment.
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Draft video
http://www.redstormsports.com/allaccess/?media=321994 (http://www.redstormsports.com/allaccess/?media=321994)
Predraft
http://www.redstormsports.com/allaccess/?media=321960 (http://www.redstormsports.com/allaccess/?media=321960)
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Nice article that also notes SJU still in it w Whitehead, Mc Cullough and Lawrence. Zach does a great job covering local hoops!
“@NYPost_Brazille: Braziller: Harkless perfect example for city stars http://t.co/or96Nj0u (http://t.co/or96Nj0u) via @newyorkpost”
You're right. Zach does an excellent job
Hasn't Whitehead's mom stated she wants him to stay close? This article should be sent right to her.
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Nice article that also notes SJU still in it w Whitehead, Mc Cullough and Lawrence. Zach does a great job covering local hoops!
“@NYPost_Brazille: Braziller: Harkless perfect example for city stars http://t.co/or96Nj0u (http://t.co/or96Nj0u) via @newyorkpost”
You're right. Zach does an excellent job
Hasn't Whitehead's mom stated she wants him to stay close? This article should be sent right to her.
she said in a documentary interview she wants him at st. john's
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Plays tomorrow at 5 against the pacers.
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Moe back in NYC? Good to see he's hanging with the guys
Maurice Harkless @moe_harkless
With my Bros chillin @Anteh23 @philgreene31 @KarrSampson14 & @maxthehooper .. Follow them, doing big things this year #stjbb
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“@TDimas_: Maurice Harkless has been officially signed by #Sixers. #stjbb http://t.co/zHN62Rzz (http://t.co/zHN62Rzz)”
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Congrats to Moe on inking that NBA contract!
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So happy for him. His hard work paid off.
9h
Adam Zagoria @AdamZagoria
Moe Harkless & Arnett Moultrie both signed with the Sixers, per the Philly Inky. Harkless will earn $1.73M in his 1st yr & Moultrie $1.04
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Im happy and proud of Moe, Although I would have loved him to stay another year. Hope this is the beginning of a long list of SJU NBA pros.
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Here's a crazy question: Given the silliness of the NCAA rulebook, when Moe is hanging with his former teammates and picks up the tab for lunch, is it now a violation? Is he a high-paid alumnus delivering benefits to student-athletes? Obviously, I know what the common-sense answer to that is, but the NCAA and common sense parted ways many decades ago.
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Here's a crazy question: Given the silliness of the NCAA rulebook, when Moe is hanging with his former teammates and picks up the tab for lunch, is it now a violation? Is he a high-paid alumnus delivering benefits to student-athletes? Obviously, I know what the common-sense answer to that is, but the NCAA and common sense parted ways many decades ago.
you can take that one step further. Amir just brought himself a Tahoe. And I assume that he has disposable income that isn't available to the rest of the guys. can he pay for lunch, dinner, etc for the guys?
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Even crazier for Amir since he is still a teamate. I'm sure we'll get screwed with one of these situations
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Here's a crazy question: Given the silliness of the NCAA rulebook, when Moe is hanging with his former teammates and picks up the tab for lunch, is it now a violation? Is he a high-paid alumnus delivering benefits to student-athletes? Obviously, I know what the common-sense answer to that is, but the NCAA and common sense parted ways many decades ago.
you can take that one step further. Amir just brought himself a Tahoe. And I assume that he has disposable income that isn't available to the rest of the guys. can he pay for lunch, dinner, etc for the guys?
Amir picking up the tab for a potential recruit would be disaster, but I can't imagine how the NCAA could complain about him treating teammates to anything. It's pretty easy to document that the money is his.
I would not want Harkless paying for anything, though.
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Here's a crazy question: Given the silliness of the NCAA rulebook, when Moe is hanging with his former teammates and picks up the tab for lunch, is it now a violation? Is he a high-paid alumnus delivering benefits to student-athletes? Obviously, I know what the common-sense answer to that is, but the NCAA and common sense parted ways many decades ago.
you can take that one step further. Amir just brought himself a Tahoe. And I assume that he has disposable income that isn't available to the rest of the guys. can he pay for lunch, dinner, etc for the guys?
Amir picking up the tab for a potential recruit would be disaster, but I can't imagine how the NCAA could complain about him treating teammates to anything. It's pretty easy to document that the money is his.
I would not want Harkless paying for anything, though.
Yes, he surely can. As unfair as it seems, if the money is the PLAYERS it's okay. If it's the players FAMILY'S money - it gets really iffy. Bill Walton caused some major issues for Arizona when he bought an apartment for his son Luke when he was a wildcat. Problem wasn't with Luke - it was that Luke's roommate Richard Jefferson ALSO lived in the apartment - and neither paid rent.
However, when U$C put Romeo Miller on basketball scholarship for 2 years in 2008-2010, he was free to spend his disposable income however he saw fit....pretty easy for him to prove the money was HIS and not daddy Master P's - his debut album "Lil Romeo" went platinum in 2001, and the followup "Game Time" went double Platinum in 2003 - Kid wasn't even in high school yet....
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And what about a guy like Moe, who is no longer a teammate?
This isn't a new issue – others have been dealing with it for years. It's just been a while since we've had one of our guys cashing a seven-figure check while his old mates are still on a student budget.
How does the NCAA look upon a guy helping out his former teammates?
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And what about a guy like Moe, who is no longer a teammate?
This isn't a new issue – others have been dealing with it for years. It's just been a while since we've had one of our guys cashing a seven-figure check while his old mates are still on a student budget.
How does the NCAA look upon a guy helping out his former teammates?
You picked a good name, Firestorm, because it looks like you're trying to brew one up.
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Ha! Trust me, no malicious intent in this, just curiosity.
Programs that have routinely churned out first-rounders in recent years must have been dealing with this issue. I'm glad we finally get a chance to have the discussion.
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Ha! Trust me, no malicious intent in this, just curiosity.
Programs that have routinely churned out first-rounders in recent years must have been dealing with this issue. I'm glad we finally get a chance to have the discussion.
LOL! I didn't think you had malicious intent behind the post. Given our history with NCAA violations, however, I always like to keep a low profile when we talk about possible NCAA violations.
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And what about a guy like Moe, who is no longer a teammate?
This isn't a new issue – others have been dealing with it for years. It's just been a while since we've had one of our guys cashing a seven-figure check while his old mates are still on a student budget.
How does the NCAA look upon a guy helping out his former teammates?
You mean how do they view a wealthy alumnus of a Major college giving cash or merchandise to current student athletes or recruits at that college?
Guys, this one is really a no-brainer.
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And what about a guy like Moe, who is no longer a teammate?
This isn't a new issue – others have been dealing with it for years. It's just been a while since we've had one of our guys cashing a seven-figure check while his old mates are still on a student budget.
How does the NCAA look upon a guy helping out his former teammates?
You mean how do they view a wealthy alumnus of a Major college giving cash or merchandise to current student athletes or recruits at that college?
Guys, this one is really a no-brainer.
The scary part is Moe 's tweets indicate he stays in touch with his former mates. Not all that unusual but new for us. They could very easily meet up when the Sixers come to the Garden or on the road somewhere. Hopefully, coach included a sentence or two about NCAA rules & regs in Moe's discussion about going pro. With our luck ...
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Lets keep bringing it up here so Zags and company can read it and look into it.......
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Lets keep bringing it up here so Zags and company can read it and look into it.......
Exactly, no upside to this nonsense!
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Lets keep bringing it up here so Zags and company can read it and look into it.......
Look at it this way. After Ed O'Bannon, Tyus Edney, George Zidek, Charles O'Bannon, Toby Bailey, JR Henderson, Jelani McCoy, Baron Davis, Jerome Moiso, Earl Watson, Dan Gadzuric, Matt Barnes and Jason Kapono - Don't you think Coach Lavin already KNOWS how to deal with this situation, and he and Rico (who was on the OTHER side of this - classmate and best friend Baron Davis became the #2 pick in the draft as a soph, while Rico stayed at UCLA 3 more seasons!) have had the sit down with Moe on the do's and don't's already?
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Lets keep bringing it up here so Zags and company can read it and look into it.......
Look at it this way. After Ed O'Bannon, Tyus Edney, George Zidek, Charles O'Bannon, Toby Bailey, JR Henderson, Jelani McCoy, Baron Davis, Jerome Moiso, Earl Watson, Dan Gadzuric, Matt Barnes and Jason Kapono - Don't you think Coach Lavin already KNOWS how to deal with this situation, and he and Rico (who was on the OTHER side of this - classmate and best friend Baron Davis became the #2 pick in the draft as a soph, while Rico stayed at UCLA 3 more seasons!) have had the sit down with Moe on the do's and don't's already?
Whoa, fellas! It was an innocent question about a stupid rule. Issue is closed. Sorry I brought it up.
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New sidekick for Moe for a while.
“@AlexKennedyNBA: Undrafted PG Maalik Wayns has officially signed a one-year deal with the Philadelphia 76ers. He was excellent during Orlando Summer League.”
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A bit surprised by this. I never pegged MW as one who would make an NBA squad.
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A bit surprised by this. I never pegged MW as one who would make an NBA squad.
Only thing holding him back was his height.. Malik is nice .
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A bit surprised by this. I never pegged MW as one who would make an NBA squad.
Only thing holding him back was his height.. Malik is nice .
The only I game I went to last year was against nova at the Garden, and he took the wind out of my sails. Up ten with five to go and he couldnt be stopped down te stretch.
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Nice touch Moe!
“@moe_harkless: Oh yeah welcome @MaalikWayns2 to the fam!! Officially a sixer today! Congrats bro”
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It is obvious what a great person Moe is. He is really something special. That means a lot in building a program. Several folks have told me Chris McCullough is cut from same cloth.
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It is obvious what a great person Moe is. He is really something special. That means a lot in building a program. Several folks have told me Chris McCullough is cut from same cloth.
That's one thing Norm did well here too. Recruiting guys who were great people off the court. Our 2010-11 seniors not only brought STJ back to relevance, but they were all classy and genuinely good people off the court.
Good to see us staying with that strategy.
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Someone should tell him DJ was traded.
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Reports are surfacing that the 76ers are part of a 4 team trade with Orlando, LA & Denver which would put Dwight Howard in LA, Bynum in Philly and Andre Iguodala in Denver. Deal practically done. With Iggy gone Moe might get a chance to start
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Reports are surfacing that the 76ers are part of a 4 team trade with Orlando, LA & Denver which would put Dwight Howard in LA, Bynum in Philly and Andre Iguodala in Denver. Deal practically done. With Iggy gone Moe might get a chance to start
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
Other names bound to emerge. Example: Just heard Harkless to Magic. But deal being submitted for league approval Friday is indeed Pau-less
If he starts, it might be for the Magic...
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Reports are surfacing that the 76ers are part of a 4 team trade with Orlando, LA & Denver which would put Dwight Howard in LA, Bynum in Philly and Andre Iguodala in Denver. Deal practically done. With Iggy gone Moe might get a chance to start
Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
Other names bound to emerge. Example: Just heard Harkless to Magic. But deal being submitted for league approval Friday is indeed Pau-less
If he starts, it might be for the Magic...
Moe to the magic !, can play with kyle
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Always good to be wanted. Orlando is a good spot for moe.
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Always good to be wanted. Orlando is a good spot for moe.
Philly fans suck arse, Moe gone to Florida
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What an awful trade by Orlando. Didn't get Rid of Hedo or Duhon contract. Didn't get a young Marquee can't miss young player. Got terrible late rd 1st rd picks. I don't get it? I love Moe but is he a better SF prospect than Justin Harper? For now I would say no!
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What an awful trade by Orlando. Didn't get Rid of Hedo or Duhon contract. Didn't get a young Marquee can't miss young player. Got terrible late rd 1st rd picks. I don't get it? I love Moe but is he a better SF prospect than Justin Harper? For now I would say no!
Think moe might be 3rd on the depth chart right now, hedo and earl clark
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And al harrington
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What an awful trade by Orlando. Didn't get Rid of Hedo or Duhon contract. Didn't get a young Marquee can't miss young player. Got terrible late rd 1st rd picks. I don't get it? I love Moe but is he a better SF prospect than Justin Harper? For now I would say no!
The worst part of what Orlando did was giving away Ryan Anderson for a basketball cart.
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I guess the good pedigree from Spurs Front Office ran it's course! Terrible to turn down the Nets offer or Houston!
"The Magic walked away from Dwight Howard trade negotiations when the Nets had to come to a resolution with restricted free agent Brook Lopez.
The final offer Brooklyn put on the table for Orlando would have been Lopez, Kris Humphries at one-year, $9.6 million, MarShon Brooks and four unprotected first round picks for Howard, Jason Richardson, Chris Duhon and Earl Clark"
Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/222920/Nets_Final_Offer_To_Magic_Was_Lopez_Humphries_Brooks_Four_Unprotected_First_Rounders#ixzz239EomNsH (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/222920/Nets_Final_Offer_To_Magic_Was_Lopez_Humphries_Brooks_Four_Unprotected_First_Rounders#ixzz239EomNsH)
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Feel sorry for Moe. He is going to a really, really bad team. no hope for upcoming year after this trade. The 76er team he left became very strong with the addition of Bynum; however, they have to sign him to an extension as he has one season left.
the deal the Magic could have gotten from the Nets as noted about was vastly superior to this.
please somebody, rescue Moe from this oblivion.
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Don't feel sorry for Moe. This is a great chance for him to get more PT and show his stuff. May even result in a bigger FA contract for him or an early extension if all goes well!
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This makes sense on everyone's perspective except Orlando. Don't get it. The picks are apparently 2015, 2016, 2017...which makes sense since all those teams will be good the next couple years, BUT they are lottery protected. Could they not at least have insisted on no lottery protection since they are, in one case, 5 years down the road?
Also why did everyone agree to this deal without the Lakers at least being forced to take on Turkoglu or Baby or someone like that? Do people want to gift LA the title?
This trade makes one guy in the league immensely more valuable: Kendrick Perkins. No chance OKC ever amnesties him now. He's the ultimate Dwight stopper. Probably guarantees him another huge deal after this one with either OKC or another western superpower too.
Mark Cuban probably lost his lunch...breakfast...dinner from the night before, etc. upon hearing this deal. Mavs are wasting dirk's prime years. They may as well trade him at this point and start rebuilding.
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Awful job by Orlando.
I agree that right now Moe is prob behind a few guys on the depth chart. HOwever, when Orlando plays half its games and has something like a 8-33 record, there should be no reason to not play Moe a lot of minutes to have him develop.
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What are the reasons Orlando made this deal actually. Like how are they spinning it.
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Orlando is bugging. The lakers got a steal again this is getting ridiculous
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Is the Orlando gm trying to get a job in the laker organization ?
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Is the Orlando gm trying to get a job in the laker organization ?
NO--he wants to work for Dumb Dolan
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Why would the Magic not prefer Kevin Martin, some combo of Houston's young players AND UNPROTECTED LOTTERY PICKS, and Houston being willing to take on more of their crappy contracts? How is Aflallo, Moe, and picks they may not get until 2017 which are protected worth trading Howard??
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Why would the Magic not prefer Kevin Martin, some combo of Houston's young players AND UNPROTECTED LOTTERY PICKS, and Houston being willing to take on more of their crappy contracts? How is Aflallo, Moe, and picks they may not get until 2017 which are protected worth trading Howard??
Cap space?
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They just wanted to get something for Howard. Both the Nets and Rocekts offers were better than the one they took, but those ships had sailed. I'm glad this saga is over, and I'm happy for Moe.
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Moose, Houston was supposedly willing to take back more bad contracts, and Kevin Martin is a FA after this year. The rest of the guys were 2010, 2011, and 2012 picks (or future picks) on their rookie contracts. I just don't see how any of this makes sense.
Orlando did receive a $19 million traded player exception here, so if they swing a deal with a team who wants to do a strict salary dump, that makes some additional sense. Perhaps they exchange Turk or Big Baby for someone with a much worse contract, but based on their haul, it seems like they want to suck for now and get good in 5+ years, so not sure why they would even need to use this TP exception.
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CMCoach, how had the Rockets offer sailed? The Rockets have tons of assets and are dying to trade for a star. Don't see how that offer was not still available. They may have had less ability to take on horrible contracts due to Lin and Asik, but they still had some room.
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Orlando should have traded for Bynum. The Magic GM tried to bluff for a better deal from NJ but it backfired. The nets offer was better and even the 3 way trade rumors with Cleveland was better but I'm not sure the rockets offer was better.
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Lakers get Chamberlain, Lakers get kareem, Lakers get Magic, Lakers get Kobe, Lakers get Shaq, Lakers get Dwight Howard...Knicks get.........Melo? ???
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Lakers get Chamberlain, Lakers get kareem, Lakers get Magic, Lakers get Kobe, Lakers get Shaq, Lakers get Dwight Howard...Knicks get.........Melo? ???
I'd add in Lakers get Gasol (and 2 World Championships) in there between Shaq and Howard ;) Who on the list doesn't really fit, tho? (hint: All but one were obtained via trade. The list includes only 1 Laker draft choice.)
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Lakers get Chamberlain, Lakers get kareem, Lakers get Magic, Lakers get Kobe, Lakers get Shaq, Lakers get Dwight Howard...Knicks get.........Melo? ???
I'd add in Lakers get Gasol (and 2 World Championships) in there between Shaq and Howard ;) Who on the list doesn't really fit, tho? (hint: All but one were obtained via trade. The list includes only 1 Laker draft choice.)
The Lakers have been incredibly lucky as well making trades for draft picks that turn into #1 picks such as Sam Worthy. The Vlade for Kobe deal goes down as one of the best in Laker history.
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Orlando should have traded for Bynum. The Magic GM tried to bluff for a better deal from NJ but it backfired. The nets offer was better and even the 3 way trade rumors with Cleveland was better but I'm not sure the rockets offer was better.
Bynum may be a free agent after the 12/13 season same as Howard--they don't want to pay any bucks in Orlando (were the owners also in the Madoff Fund?). if true that he is a free agent, next july could be interesting as the money flows down the turnpike from Brooklyn.
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Moose, Houston was supposedly willing to take back more bad contracts, and Kevin Martin is a FA after this year. The rest of the guys were 2010, 2011, and 2012 picks (or future picks) on their rookie contracts. I just don't see how any of this makes sense.
Orlando did receive a $19 million traded player exception here, so if they swing a deal with a team who wants to do a strict salary dump, that makes some additional sense. Perhaps they exchange Turk or Big Baby for someone with a much worse contract, but based on their haul, it seems like they want to suck for now and get good in 5+ years, so not sure why they would even need to use this TP exception.
Just makes no sense not to take the Houston deal! Houston told them we have 3 first round picks in this deep draft pick which 3 players you want. Plus Martin's Exp. contract other young players and unprotected pick because lets face it Houston even with Howard would of been back in the lottery the next year & Howard was walking after this year so even more lottery picks!
Then you take back long term contracts of Affalo & AL! Makes Zero sense!
This is almost worst then the Agent 0 trade to the Magic
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“@moe_harkless: On campus at STJ”
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“@NYPost_Brazille: Hearing former St. John's star and Magic forward Moe Harkless has signed a deal with Nike. #stjbb”
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“@NYPost_Brazille: Hearing former St. John's star and Magic forward Moe Harkless has signed a deal with Nike. #stjbb”
Wow great for Maurice!
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Fun piece from our best ambassador!
“@moe_harkless: Y'all gotta watch this http://t.co/QWXUMIYL (http://t.co/QWXUMIYL)”